My ignorance revealed! The question then is do any keyboards measure it? And is it used to shape the sound in any modules/software pianos?

Dear James,

It's probably true that there is no huge demand for such product, but please consider the following two points:

1. The keyboards (and the rest of the instrument) is likely to be useful for at least ten years long. Meanwhile, the developments in computer technology (and sound modelling) do not seem to slow down. On the contrary: we will get better and better virtual instruments. Five years for now, a lot of users of current instruments will want to get these benefits, without tossing out their (otherwise) perfectly good instruments. I thing these trends should be taken into account when manufacruting an instrument in the 21th centuary.

2. I do not need a whole new model: I would be (basically) satisfied with just a line-in on the CA13, to make it more future-proof. Would that be so difficult?

Best wishes:

Csillag

i was wondering if anyone knew the US release date for the MP10.. i know the release date for the MP6 is 10-6-2010 according to MusiciansFriend.com.. also, is the action different on the MP10 as opposed to MP6? i read the description for the MP6 and it didnt mention anything about RM3 action, which as you all know is found on the MP10. also, the keys on the MP10 are wood keys correct? MP6 has plastic keys. any info would be greatly appreciated as I am looking to buy soon.

The MP6 has plastic RH (Responsive Hammer) action with let-off simulation. The exact same action is used in the CN33.

(In contrast, the MP10 uses the same wooden action (RM3 with let-off simulation) which is used in the CA93.)

Gatsbee13, I believe there may have been some mistakes in the information posted on one or two of the main retailers' websites.

Please refer to the PDF linked at the very top of this thread for the correct specifications of both instruments.

Kind regards,
James
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@Kawai James

Any change of a CA-13 v2 with audio-IN ?! I think they messed up a little there. If the sound engine is deliberately underperforming (UPH instead of UPHI and restricted polyphony) you might want to use another sound sooner or later and hook up a computer. I think a sound-In component wouldn't make the factory price that much higher for Kawai ?

And if not - do you think it is possible to add an audio-IN yourself. In other words ; is there already a secret input inherited from the CA-63 that is hidden inside the instrument and you can access in a little DIY project ? Of course you would be prohibited to tell such a thing , but a hint would be welcome. Considering a CA for home use because of the RM3 - but I'm hold back because of the combination of an inferior sound engine AND no audio-IN to circumvent that. It's in exactly those details that the instruments from Roland keep on being such attractive alternatives (e.g. FP7F).

CA-63 is no alternative to me, too expensive in comparison and to many extra sounds and other stuff I don't really need.

Back to the MP-series - still no information update on sites or in shops over here, but the day is still not over ;-)

MP6 page in English is here: http://www.kawai.de/mp6_en.htm
Direct link to the manual: http://www.kawai.de/service/mp6_e.pdf

Aaron

I think the referenced sound engine is called PHI (the line up is this: HI < PHI < UPHI); other than that, I agree completely.

The choice of the sound engine can be consider reasonable as both a cost save and a differentiator between the entry level model and the higher models, but omitting the line-in really kicks this instument in the balls.

I have not thought of adding the line-in myself, but now this makes some sense. Someone should take one apart and check how strongly the amp and the sound engine are integrated.

Thanks for the links. Any price / ordering info yet for Europe ? That's what interests me the most; the specs were already know more or less...

As for the lack of sound-input on CA13. Yep; dealbreaker (for me at least...) !

The same here.. however, see the separate thread about this, here .

JFP,

For the sake of clarity, may I suggest that you raise your queries regarding the CA13 in this thread.

Kind regards,
James
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EDIT: Ah, I see that Csillag has already started a new thread to cover this topic.

MP10 manual! : http://www.kawai.de/service/mp10_e.pdf

I've updated the first post with these links as well.

Aaron

On topic then, three questions;

is the acoustic piano sound on the MP6 the same / better / worse than on the CA-13 ?
is the acoustic piano sound on the MP10 the same / better / worse than on the CA63/93 ?
do the pedals on the MP6 feature full 'half damping' (dynamic pedaling) support. Couldn't find that in the specs / manual.

I ask because on the CA13 specs I saw that they are explicitly talking about half damping in 8 phases and for the ca63 in 128 phases. I wondered if there were similar distinctions in MP6 /MP10 ?

James, good job on the manuals by the way. It's definitely nice to read something that doesn't sound machine-translated

Aaron

Same: some of the piano sounds are the same and both use the latest generation high-end UPHI sampling technology.

Better: several piano sounds are new with more options, better realtime control (knobs & sliders) and more extensive effects.

Worse: the MP10 does not support dual voice mode for dynamic sound layering of acoustic piano voices and has 'only' 27 voices in total, compared to the CA93/CA63's 80/60 voices.

JFP,



The MP6 and CA13 both utilise PHA sound technology. However the MP6 features additional new piano sounds, and a wide range of tonal adjustment parameters that are not found on the CA13.



The MP10 and CA93/CA63 both utilise UPHI sound technology. However, as with the MP6 - and in fact, to a greater extent - the MP10 features new, more realistic piano sounds, and a wide range of tonal adjustment parameters that are not found on the CA93/CA63.



All Kawai instruments since the CN21 have featured half-dampening pedal support as standard.



May I ask where you saw this information? It's not something that I recall off the top of my head.

Cheers,
James
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Deffie,



Thank you for the kind words.

I should point out that the MP6 owner's manual was largely an editing job to update the previous MP5 owner's manual - a case of "If it ain't broke..." you might say.

However, with the MP10 featuring a brand new UI, we were required to write a new manual from scratch. Yet, as Dr Popper noted previously, the interface is very intuitive, so the explanations practically wrote themselves.

Cheers,
James
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just spoke with someone at KawaiUS and they were speculating a early november release for the MP10 here in the states.. anyways, my local kawai dealer has a few rolands, the new ca-93 and 63, and acoustic pianos.. im bringing my M-Audio BX8a studio monitors to test the sound on the CA-63 and to decide whether i like the action better than the roland or yamaha. this should give me an idea if want to get the MP10

MP10 the plus side ....

1) A moron with no DP experience could operate the MP10 within a few mins .... the interface is THAT simple and good.
2) The action is good ....very good .... excellent .... and VERY much like a real grand. Close your eyes and your there.
3) The sound Particularity the 7 foot which I suspect is patch 2 is excellent and unlike the supernatural doesn't need much tweaking to "cut through" in a mix.
4) Drum kit is easier to use then RD700NX/CP 5

MP10 the minus side ....

1) The strings and pads are "OK" but nothing special. Fine for layers which is their main use but thinner then I'd like. Probably could be tweaked onboard ..not sure.
2) You can't layer 2 of any category ... so no layer of AP on AP or EP on EP ...ok I guess they are tweakable but no layers of strings on strings is a mild issue.
3) It big ...its heavy .... did I mention its heavy? I mean its really heavy. Its better hire a roadie right now heavy. Its upgrade your suspension heavy .... but it is solid. Can't imagine anything breaking on it.

Would I recommend it ?
On action and interface ...yes ! Sounds are subjective but if you like Kawai grands (or Yamaha's for that matter) you will probably like this Piano a lot. The EP's are good too not class leading but seriously good. If you really like the Roland Supernatural sound your going to notice some major differences with this piano it doesn't have the darkness of the Roland out of the box but its tweakable. Personally being a fan of Japanese 7 foot pianos I find the sound extremely good.

The main plus .... its cheap ... really cheap for what it offers. Its a much more solidly built and I daresay that anyone lining this board up against its competitors will notice that straight away.

I'd say the MP 10 is more like a cross between a CP5 and a CP1 .... it doesn't have hundreds of sounds like the CP5 or few like the CP1 and can't do extreme layering. But gosh its nice to have around. If anything its going to make sure Yamaha and Roland keep developing their boards. It's a serious competitor in the market. And there lies the issue ... if Kawai can get their dealers and marketing up to speed it will be a success. sp far I think its fair to say Kawai have been very disappointing with their efforts in those areas but as James lets us know they are well aware of it and looking to improve. If they can do that I see no reason why they couldn't sell a lot more of the MP10 then they expect.

Another minus for the MP10 - it does not have a tri-sensor action for double-escapement simulation. The Roland does.

Greg.

I wasn't aware of that. I can't recall seeing anything from Kawai that talks about sensors. How can you tell?

+1 here ....
I certainly noticed escapement samples and was under the impression it had a tri sensor as well.

James ? Want to clear this up ?

If he told you he'd probably have to kill you afterward, and I don't think knowing anything is worth that.

If it did, Kawai would have told us.

Besides, I had already asked about it here:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1500902/New_Kawai_action_to_replace_AW.html (go to final posts in that thread)

and the answer seems to be "no". If it DID have the third sensor (or at least, the functionality), I think James would have chimed in back then and told us.

Nevertheless, if anyone wants to test it, do the following:

1. Turn the volume up quite high
2. Play a note forte, but do NOT lift off the key yet.
3. Slowly release the key, until the note terminates, but no further than this.
4. Note the point in the key travel at which the note terminates.
5. Lift off the key completely.
6. Repeat steps 2 to 5 as required to get a good feel for the note termination point.
7. Play a note forte again, and again, do not lift off.
8. Slowly release the key. This time, stop at a point JUST below the note termination point. Hold the key at this position with one finger.
9. With the OTHER hand, push down on the same key with a forte force.
10. If the action simulates double-escapement, you will hear a NEW NOTE, without the original note ever being terminated first. If it does not simulate double-escapement, you will merely hear the ORIGINAL note continue to decay.

The Roland PHAIII action, Yamaha GH3 (and above), and Casio tri-sensor actions all pass this test - I've tried it on all of them.

Greg.

If faster, usable, grand-like, double-escapement-simulated repetition is your goal, then PHA-III is your ticket.

After browsing the excellent MP10 manual: I remember suggesting (together with a lot of other stuff) a stereo width parameter for the CA93/CA63 and now the MP10 has it on board.

Note that I'm not saying that the Kawai's are necessarily slower than anything else just because they are missing the third sensor.
As I've said before, my Casio has it's middle (third) sensor in about the same position as my Kawai MP9000's top sensor, so all else being equal (which is unlikely, but let's assume so for simplicity), the repetition rate should be about the same.
However, the Casio may make it easier to play legato, due to the fact that it's top sensor (the Note-Off sensor) is higher up. I.e - the Note-Off would presumably be transmitted slightly later as the key is being released, reducing the period of silence inbetween each legato note.

Greg.

Hey James, Do you happen to know what Kawai road case (gig-bag type)I will need with an MP6?(Or any recommendation?) Would it be the same as fits the ES6? Might be a question others here might like to know as well..Thanks for your help. Rob

Audio demos of the MP6 anyone?

http://kawaius.com/main_links/digital/PRO_2010/mp6_audio.html

Aaron

Sounds great! I'd love to hear the new EP and the tonewheel organ sounds, too.