My experience with Protek is that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I used to always use Garfield's center pin lube sold by Schaff, but the fumes are just nasty. I won't use it in a customer's home any more for that reason. The old APSCO used to sell their own that worked great and didn't have all the noxious fumes, but it didn't make the transition to Schaff.

What do you use?

Protek, but only occasionaly.

Jeff,

I get mixed results with Protek. On verdigris, it works (for a while). On swollen bushings due to humidity, etc., I don't get good results from it.

Nothing works long lasting with verdigris. I don't have any luck with lubrication used on verdigris. It always comes back. Unless you replace the parts it'll return and stick again.

Protek works as a temporary solution in many cases. Re-pinning is always the best solution IMO but, not always affordable for everyone which is why we wind up using Protek again, and again. I use CLP.

Mix 7 parts Naptha, to one part mineral oil. Works!

Thanks, will give it a try! I remember years ago the controversial practice of using the silicone that Wurlitzer use to sell and mixing it. I suspect the naphtha/mineral oil mix might have been what American used to sell, since it smelled like lighter fluid. Can you get naphtha at a local hardware or paint store?

These days I first try alcohol and water mix (around 20 percent water, 80 percent alcohol). If I have time I let it sit for a couple of day to dry out, if I need quicker results I hit it with the heat gun. I will then sometimes follow with Protek CLP.

For verdigris, the only thing that I have found is to use a lot of heat, like Ed McMorrow suggests in his book "The Educated Piano" (page 121). This can look kinda scary because the action will literally start smoking!

Be careful doing this on grand jacks because you can damage the joint between the toe and body of the jack.

I will usually follow the heat treatment with Protek.

yes, Naptha is paint thinner, it evaporates and carries mineral oil in, no damage to glue of inner bushings. I have used it 40 years.

Also no verdigris ever. Apply with one of Schaff's handy little squeeze valve tools to both sides of hammer CP. Do one section at a time, then use your hand to gently apply up and down and side to side motion. You will be amazed, I don't even charge for this.

WD40

'Just kidding. 'Hope there were no coronaries.

Grabbed some naphtha and mineral oil today and getting ready to mix up a batch. I always figured there had to be a good "home brew" alternative to what the suppliers sell.

And LOL about the WD-40.

I've used this a lot too and it really does work very well.

Thanks, Jerry. The smell of the Garfield stuff really gets to me (and my customers). Protek doesn't always give me good results, so looking forward to trying this. Years and years ago I used alcohol and water, but I never really felt comfortable with the water part.

How about just plain 3 in 1 oil David?

EVOO.

Haha there you go! I'm Italian, so I have plenty of that around.

I have an old upright action with stiff center pins everywhere. Over the course of a few years I tried every centerpin lube I could think of (WD40 included). Most things worked temporarily, but I found that repinning after reaming and burnishing with a NEW pin worked the best.

The one thing I DIDN'T try was 3in1 oil. 'Got to go give a pin or two a squirt.

Now everyone on here will think we're serious David! Let me know what happens!

Why not? This method has worked wonders on my Ibach upright a few weeks ago (although the long-term efficacy still remains to be seen).

For my part (inexperienced as a piano tech, but having work with fine mechanical items before) I shirk away from the idea of getting any form of oil on (or in) that bushing cloth. Firstly, oil draws dust, and secondly, it gets sticky with time. I've seen very bad things happen in sewing machines when mineral oil ages...

I was afraid I would be taken serious. David and I are only joking about the oil! Do NOT use oil ever!!! You are asking for LOTS of trouble if you do this.

Isopropyl is 70/30 alcohol/ water already mixed.

Isopropyl is a type of alcohol, not a specific percentage. Rubbing alcohol is usually the proper mix, but check the label for the percentage.

Isopropyl sold in Canada is a mix of 70% alcohol and 30% water.

Relax, Jerry, I'm just playing along with you!

Right, but I always shied away from water altogether. Chances of corrosion, warpage, etc...

The theory is that water shrinks the felt. The alcohol dilutes the water and acts as a drying agent, so that the water does not remain long enough to corrode the center pin.

I knew you were but thought maybe Mark and others might be taking me to seriously. OK, zap it with oil and see what happens. LOL. Might as well have some real fun now.

My concern about oily products is that they may tend to gum up over time.

That's why I like the alcohol/water solution because you're not adding any more gunk into the center. Although I have found that when repinning, some flange bushings feel very dry, so these might benefit from a *slight* amount of mineral oil. Before deciding to lubricate, it's a good idea to remove a flange and unpin it so you can actually feel the condition of the cloth. If it feels dry then it could probably benefit from a little lubrication. If the pin feels smooth going into the cloth, then I doubt lubrication is going to help.

So if I'm figuring correctly, probably the initial reaction is with water/alcohol is that the bushings get immediately tighter (temporarily), and then once the bushings dry they are freer than they were before the treatment?

The swelling may compact the felt a bit, and when it dries, it is still held by the glue, so that it contracts against the wood of the bushing, rather than the center pin. That would be similar to the process that causes soundboards to crack.

Lady and gentlemen,

What will it be? One moment, we read that mineral oil and naphtha are good to use. The next, we read that oil should never be used.

Mineral oil to my knowledge is simply a medium petroleum distillate. You might as well use 3-in-1. But then we read that 3-in-1 was just a joke, and should never-ever-ever be used.

Like I wrote earlier: for my part, nothing even remotely resembling oil will ever get close to the action of my pianos.

But then, why was mineral oil advised?

I'm really wondering about this thread...

3 and 1 was a joke. The technicians got it. I thought I had clarified it enough but, I guess not. I do not use 3 and 1 oil. When I said, do not use oil, I was referring to 3 and 1.

I have seen pianos where people squirted the pedals and just about everything else with it. All it did was make one heck of a mess and then stuck worse than ever as the dirt and dust and grime were attracted to it.

On the other hand, I have used a mixture of Mineral Oil and Naphtha mixed 8:1. 8 parts Naphtha to 1 part Mineral Oil. I used it for years and it did work good.... Well in some cases, not to well in others. It was dependent upon how badly the flanges were sticking.

BDB's and Ryan's method is also very good.

However, as I stated at least twice already, in my opinion, re-pinning is best.

You should. This thread has been torpedoed by a couple of funny guys and one who just THINKS he's funny (me).

If you are uncomfortable with any product, don't use it. If you have some throw-away action parts, experiment with them until you find something that works. Don't try 3in1 oil. Leave that kind of experimenting to the professionals.

I can't see how using 3 and 1 oil is any different than mineral oil - since 3 and 1 IS basically mineral oil. It should be fine to use if used *very sparingly*. Diluting it 8:1 is probably pretty safe.

Thanks for the clarification (... I think).

Still being confused why "mineral oil" should be OK, but 3-in-1 should not, I should add this:

Here in South Africa we don't commonly use the term "mineral oil". At least not for a specific product that you buy as such. I therefore assumed that "mineral oil" means any normal (thin) oil derived from mineral stock, as opposed to synthetic oil. Something like 3-in-1 or sewing machine oil. Just like with automotive engine oils: one also gets mineral, partially synthetic and fully synthetic ones.

Hence, I couldn't understand why "mineral oil" should be OK to use, but 3-in-1 should not.

When I looked up "mineral oil", I found that it is what we would call "paraffin" or "medicinal paraffin" here. This is colorless and mostly odorless, i.e. more highly purified than normal oils.

Nevertheless, like Ry wrote, 3-in-1 is also a mineral oil. So by my understanding, if you use one, you may as well use the other. The only saving grace seems to be the dilution.

The German tech from whom I bought my first piano swears by Ballistol, a thin (mineral) gun oil. Not sure whether he or some predecessor had lubed the action, but it was not a pleasant sight...

Some German techs warn against any form of oil, because over and above the dust and sticking problems, it is absorbed into the wood of the flange. If the flange ever needs to be re-bushed, the glue wouldn't stick to the oily wood.

Mineral oil can be taken internally. It's also used externally for skin conditions, etc. I don't think either of those hold true for 3-in-1 oil. Three-in-one is a machine oil and contains other oils, citronella being one of them. So the notion that 3-in-1 and mineral oil are the same is false. They both contain "oil" in their name, but are vastly different products.

Nevertheless, I'm just trying to find an alternative to Garfield and Protek. Of course we all know that repinning is the best, but that just ain't happening on the old Packard upright or Betsy Ross spinet...