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This isn't about supergerms. It's about irrational fears and how the media scares us into buying product we probably don't need. Live and let live is what I always say though. If you want to bath in Purell and throw the kitchen sponge out on the hour you should do so. I'm sure it makes Proctor and Gamble very happy.

I microwaved my sponge for two minutes this morning. I did make sure it was quite wet. Much to my dismay it didn't even smoke let alone melt. I thought, I better make sure that everything is good and sanitary so I put the Brillo pad in the microwave. It made a great show but now the microwave won't heat up my coffee. : (

Kurt


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I have gotten used to kids coming in my class with runny nose and all that. Sure it makes me get germs as well but I have learned to live with this as part and parcel of the job. It is hard to cancel and reschedule when you are teaching in a music school and are fully booked. I also believe like some of you in this post about building your immunization through this. I still get a bit annoyed when a child walks in with a cold but what can you do.


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Originally Posted by Feminicricket
I have gotten used to kids coming in my class with runny nose and all that. Sure it makes me get germs as well but I have learned to live with this as part and parcel of the job. It is hard to cancel and reschedule when you are teaching in a music school and are fully booked. I also believe like some of you in this post about building your immunization through this. I still get a bit annoyed when a child walks in with a cold but what can you do.


Hi Freminicricket, IMO, what you can do is send the child home if the parent is rude enough to send a sick child to a lesson. One child missing a lesson is completely different than a teacher getting sick and having to reschedule a week's worth of lessons! I have a feeling that the teachers who post comment like "building immunities to diseases," or "dealing with it," have been fortunate enough to suffer simple colds. After working full time for most of my life in an office, I started working in schools and with children about two years ago. I have been sick every two months for the last year and a half! I lost nearly two months total last year from illnesses, including H1N1 and a horrible viral infection that lasted 8 months (while catching every other virus that came along). It was the worst year of my life. I haven't been sick since April of this year, and last week, 3 students came in to lessons sounding very snotty, wiping noses, sneezing, and I am already sick! I am afraid I may have to give up teaching if this is what the future holds--parents leaving their kids off for a lesson so they have a free half hour, even if the child is ill, at the expense of me getting sick constantly. I have had all the tests, blood work, etc. and nothing, thankfully serious is wrong. I eat well, exercise, drink tons of water, no fats or sweets, salt or fried foods. Thre isn't much more I can do except send a sick child home if they are ill. Hand sanitizers are ok, but nothing works when a child sneezes all over the piano and I am sitting inches away from him/her.


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A note:

Our mothers and our piano teachers did not wipe the piano with disinfectant.

Some of our students' mothers, and some of us, now do.

There seem to be a lot more sick kids now than before.

Coincidence?

The idiotic fantasy of creating a germ-free living environment without controlling what comes in from outside, promoted to gullible consumers by the manufacturers of various toxic products, is harming more than it is helping. There are a lot of reasonable things to do to keep from getting sick. Disinfecting your piano (and/or your house) is not one of them.

If you have a chronically sick child with no immune system, the first thing you do is not to go out and buy twenty bottles of disinfectant. The first thing you do is seal his environment so nothing can get at him. To do this for the piano, you will have to permanently board up and seal the front door, the back door, and all the windows. Then you can bring out the disinfectant, and it will actually do some good. But as soon as you kick down where the front door used to be, to go out and buy more disinfectant, your "clean scheme" is ruined. It is not something you can catch up on or keep on top of. As soon as you un-seal your house, you are all the way back to square one, and you can never leave square one until you seal it again. Disinfecting your house is not just a losing battle, it's a lost battle. You lose already before you even start.

Of course, clean up messes. Of course, microwave the dish cloth to keep it from spreading salmonella instead of preventing it. But don't let yourself be fooled by the dangerous and toxic "germ-free house" fantasy. People have been trying it now for quite some time, and kids are just getting sicker and the bills for toxic chemicals are going up and up.


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So what do you do when you, the teacher, is sick? Canceling all your lessons must cost you some serious coin. Do you cancel anyway, or just when your really bad?

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If a teacher (or as I do) imposes a policy that sick students should stay home, then the teacher should also do the same. It wouldn't be fair, nor a good example, to go ahead and give lessons and put our students at risk of getting sick. And, I would have to make up any lessons I had to cancel.


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Originally Posted by Irenev
Originally Posted by Feminicricket
I have gotten used to kids coming in my class with runny nose and all that. Sure it makes me get germs as well but I have learned to live with this as part and parcel of the job. It is hard to cancel and reschedule when you are teaching in a music school and are fully booked. I also believe like some of you in this post about building your immunization through this. I still get a bit annoyed when a child walks in with a cold but what can you do.


Hi Freminicricket, IMO, what you can do is send the child home if the parent is rude enough to send a sick child to a lesson. One child missing a lesson is completely different than a teacher getting sick and having to reschedule a week's worth of lessons! I have a feeling that the teachers who post comment like "building immunities to diseases," or "dealing with it," have been fortunate enough to suffer simple colds. After working full time for most of my life in an office, I started working in schools and with children about two years ago. I have been sick every two months for the last year and a half! I lost nearly two months total last year from illnesses, including H1N1 and a horrible viral infection that lasted 8 months (while catching every other virus that came along). It was the worst year of my life. I haven't been sick since April of this year, and last week, 3 students came in to lessons sounding very snotty, wiping noses, sneezing, and I am already sick! I am afraid I may have to give up teaching if this is what the future holds--parents leaving their kids off for a lesson so they have a free half hour, even if the child is ill, at the expense of me getting sick constantly. I have had all the tests, blood work, etc. and nothing, thankfully serious is wrong. I eat well, exercise, drink tons of water, no fats or sweets, salt or fried foods. Thre isn't much more I can do except send a sick child home if they are ill. Hand sanitizers are ok, but nothing works when a child sneezes all over the piano and I am sitting inches away from him/her.


Trouble is, when you work at a music school, it is very tricky. Bosses of the school have to be very understanding and sympathetic to your not feeling well. In the school where I work, if another teacher teaches your class, you lose the money and you stand a chance of a student switching teachers and all that. It is not that easy. I have been very ill before and had cancelled my lessons only to get a lecture from my boss....." hmmmm you better take care of yourself or there is always a chance that your student might like the substitute teacher etc."Funny part is...because I just go on, my back-pain, cold or etc doesn`t long either. I have lived this way for so long. Although I know when I might be dangerously ill and not safe to be out with others to safeguard the students. BTW ,the last time my boss gave me the line"the students might like the substitute teacher" I told my boss "they have every right to switch if they think the other teacher can do a better job, I wish them well, no problems"

Last edited by Feminicricket; 10/02/10 05:07 PM.

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Originally Posted by david_a
A note:

Our mothers and our piano teachers did not wipe the piano with disinfectant.

Some of our students' mothers, and some of us, now do.

There seem to be a lot more sick kids now than before.

Coincidence?

The idiotic fantasy of creating a germ-free living environment without controlling what comes in from outside, promoted to gullible consumers by the manufacturers of various toxic products, is harming more than it is helping. There are a lot of reasonable things to do to keep from getting sick. Disinfecting your piano (and/or your house) is not one of them.

If you have a chronically sick child with no immune system, the first thing you do is not to go out and buy twenty bottles of disinfectant. The first thing you do is seal his environment so nothing can get at him. To do this for the piano, you will have to permanently board up and seal the front door, the back door, and all the windows. Then you can bring out the disinfectant, and it will actually do some good. But as soon as you kick down where the front door used to be, to go out and buy more disinfectant, your "clean .scheme" is ruined. It is not something you can catch up on or keep on top of. As soon as you un-seal your house, you are all the way back to square one, and you can never leave square one until you seal it again. Disinfecting your house is not just a losing battle, it's a lost battle. You lose already before you even start.

Of course, clean up messes. Of course, microwave the dish cloth to keep it from spreading salmonella instead of preventing it. But don't let yourself be fooled by the dangerous and toxic "germ-free house" fantasy. People have been trying it now for quite some time, and kids are just getting sicker and the bills for toxic chemicals are going up and up.

Someone told me this before. That by disinfecting everything, you are doing more harm because your immune system will get lazy or something like that. You are supposed to come in contact with germs for your immune system to be in practice although I don`t welcome them.


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I'd be interested to know what credible sources David a is getting his info from as to an increase in sick kids. Can we also consider the other factors, such as pollution, chemicals, preservatives, additives, food dyes, hormones, too easily prescribed drugs to kids (for ADD, ADHD, etc.) fast foods, lack of common sense hygiene issues, and the myriad of other mixtures that are contributing to the resurfacing of such potentially fatal diseases as TB and Pertussis, or the horrid MRSA, H1N1, to name a few? Maybe teachers didn't wipe down pianos when I was a child, but I am fairly certain if the products that are available today were available back then, they'd be utilized.


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Originally Posted by Feminicricket
Someone told me this before. That by disinfecting everything, you are doing more harm because your immune system will get lazy or something like that. You are supposed to come in contact with germs for your immune system to be in practice although I don`t welcome them.
I read somewhere that children who are exposed to more pathogens have stronger immune systems in the long run. Farm children, especially but this could also include daycare children. On the otherhand, children who are protected from exposure to germs have a higher incidence of lymphoma because their immune systems haven't been "primed" by exposure to pathogens.


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And how exactly can one "protect children from exposure to germs", so much so that their immune systems are not even primed???!!! The germs you get exposed to from food and inhalation alone are enough to prime anything and anyone.. in addition to the vast flora in our digestive system, starting with the mouth and ending .. well at the other end!!

When it comes to "germ control", it is a matter of controlling the germ load (ie amounts of germs or inoculum you get exposed to over a period of time). You cannot avoid exposure in general, but just as in hospitals, being in physical contact or immediate proximity to someone shedding large amounts of virus, means that you are likely to catch the same. Using disinfectant on your hands reduces the probability that you would bring said virus in contact with your mucosal linings (e.g. kid sneezes or touches key, you touch the same then bring your hand to your nose/ mouth.. Using disinfectant on your hands reduces the load of germs you might carry.. etc.. Of course you can also inhale the germs.. So disinfectants are not a gimmick, nor are they a panacea!

As for our mothers and grandmothers, they got sick all the same but blamed evil spirits, the weather and sour milk instead ..

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Originally Posted by Irenev
I'd be interested to know what credible sources David a is getting his info from as to an increase in sick kids. Can we also consider the other factors, such as pollution, chemicals, preservatives, additives, food dyes, hormones, too easily prescribed drugs to kids (for ADD, ADHD, etc.) fast foods, lack of common sense hygiene issues, and the myriad of other mixtures that are contributing to the resurfacing of such potentially fatal diseases as TB and Pertussis, or the horrid MRSA, H1N1, to name a few? Maybe teachers didn't wipe down pianos when I was a child, but I am fairly certain if the products that are available today were available back then, they'd be utilized.


Here's one to think about: when the H1N1 virus struck, all the risk groups got vaccine shots (at least, that's what we did over here). The focus was, for once, not on the old people but on the young people. Why? Because most old people had already had a similar kind of flu which was very active thirty or forty years ago. That's also why, even though I got horribly sick, my parents didn't get anything (and we're hardly hygiene freaks). That's the kind of thing priming can help you do.

None of the things you cite cause H1N1 (except perhaps 'common sense hygiene issues'). They are, overall, pretty bad for your health, but in various other ways. And, let's be honest here: your odds of getting TB are fairly slim (Wikipedia gives the infection rate as 4 in 100,000 in the US). You're much more likely to die in a car accident than you are of getting nasty germs. None of the various germ scares that we've had (SARS, H1N1) have really had as big an influence as they were supposed to have: SARS only killed 774 people (which was not even a 10% death rate), while H1N1 killed 7,820 people (a lot more, but the death rate, at least in the US, was 0,02%, which is one in 5,000). On the other hand, car accidents kill 1,200,000 people worldwide (2004).


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You're quite right that people often misperceive risk, assigning out of proportion weight to low probability events while blithely ignoring much more likely things that they have simply become adjusted to hearing about (like auto accidents).

On the other hand, one important reason that things like SARS, or the bad variety of bird flu, afflicted so few people was the immediate epidemiological response by the health community.

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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
You're quite right that people often misperceive risk, assigning out of proportion weight to low probability events while blithely ignoring much more likely things that they have simply become adjusted to hearing about (like auto accidents).

On the other hand, one important reason that things like SARS, or the bad variety of bird flu, afflicted so few people was the immediate epidemiological response by the health community.


Oh, this is definitely true. The authorities have managed quite successfully to contain serious diseases like SARS. As far as H1N1 goes...well, I think it's a completely different thing. H1N1 itself was not that threatening: the main danger was in the mutation possibility (I think that actually implies it'd be best to have gotten H1N1 already, because that might make you immune to the mutated version, though I'm no expert on diseases).

I think the health community responds very well to possible pandemics like this. Overall, I'm inclined to listen to them. I did think the H1N1 thing was overhyped, though I certainly agreed with the vaccination programs (fun fact: the vaccination program in the Netherlands was considered to be somewhat of a failure, in part because rumours were spread on the Internet that the government had placed microchips in the vaccines). Relatively common flus and colds, which seem to me to be the main point in this particular discussion, are just not that dangerous.


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