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#1529771 - 10/06/10 09:54 PM Lola Astanova
Bech Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 844
Loc: Indiana
Check Lola Astanova out on YouTube.

I challenge you to find a more exciting concert pianist.

Get this: I'm talk'in strictly music here.

Bech
_________________________
Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.

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#1529782 - 10/06/10 10:19 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Butters109 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 207
Her arrogance astounds me. I'm fairly sure she created her own wikipedia, and anyone who refers to themselves as a virtuoso in their videos loses a few respect points from me...

Sure she has decent technique, but nothing about her really sets her apart to me.

And I'd say it's quite easy to find a more exciting concert pianist... for example, Argerich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R68SySQnKX8&feature=related

She takes that insane tempo given by the bassoonist and just runs with it.



Edit: This topic prompted me to look at her youtube channel again.... and, seriously, what the hell is this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXonEVqDG3s&feature=player_embedded#!


Edited by Butters109 (10/06/10 10:25 PM)

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#1529792 - 10/06/10 10:43 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Lingyis Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 805
you know, i came across her clips some time ago, and i thought: ow, this is how young pianists should be promoting themselves. with the advent of social media, know-how on youtube, facebook, twitter etc are absolute-musts for the pianist-entrepreneur.

now obviously on youtube it's much easier if you happen to be an attractive young lady.

it's a bit of a sell-out. but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do to make a name for yourself. at the end of the day, if you're pianist, you're in the entertainment industry and you're supposed to entertain.

pianistically... i feel like they're dime a dozen. but i haven't heard that many of her clips.

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#1529793 - 10/06/10 10:46 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Lingyis]
lisztonian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 266
I don't see anything in her repertoire that sets her apart from a music major studying piano at a university.
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#1529795 - 10/06/10 10:48 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Lingyis]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17952
Loc: Victoria, BC
On the other hand, if she has to use gimmickry to sell her musicianship, perhaps she's not just that good a musician.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
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Estonia 190

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#1529801 - 10/06/10 11:03 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Lingyis Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 805
well, you know what they say. any publicity is good publicity, gimmicky or not, for classical music in general i suppose.

like when i was a grad student in the sciences i had this egotistic view that science and research is above money and all else. but now i'm working in finance. many of my friends joined me on so-called "SS Sellout".

at my school there are quite a few courses like "entrepreneurship for engineers and scientists" etc, because they know not everybody will end up in academia. and it's necessary to have money recycle back into academia.

so i think that if classical musicians know better to promote themselves and monetize, it's a good thing. somehow the life of a musician is equated with that of hardship and poverty and thus discouraged many aspiring young musicians. so while there are some grotesque self-promoters who i truly, truly can't stand, i do hope that some of the money and public attention they earn draw people into classical music.


back to whether she's that great of a musician... well, i haven't really said anything about her musicianship so there you go.


Edited by Lingyis (10/06/10 11:03 PM)

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#1529824 - 10/06/10 11:58 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2139
Loc: Canada
Sort of reminds me of a quote by Richter saying how Horowitz was a tremendous pianist, but not much of a musician, and how he had a tremendous influence on pianists. I don't completely agree there, but I do see how his influence leads to playing like that of Lang Lang's and Astanova's, exaggeration and contrast all over the place. I listened to part of her Rachmaninoff sonata and wondered why she had to play with her hair and stop playing right at the beginning of a bridge to another section. Her Scriabin op.42 no.5 is also quite "affected", it loses the energy that it should have.
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Working on:
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Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
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#1529952 - 10/07/10 03:47 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Butters109]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Butters109


Edit: This topic prompted me to look at her youtube channel again.... and, seriously, what the hell is this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXonEVqDG3s&feature=player_embedded#!


I expected her to be murdered anytime in that video. It was almost like a 'Saw' scene.
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1530125 - 10/07/10 10:37 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Butters109]
MarkH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 855
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Butters109
Her arrogance astounds me. I'm fairly sure she created her own wikipedia, and anyone who refers to themselves as a virtuoso in their videos loses a few respect points from me...

Sure she has decent technique, but nothing about her really sets her apart to me.

And I'd say it's quite easy to find a more exciting concert pianist... for example, Argerich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R68SySQnKX8&feature=related

She takes that insane tempo given by the bassoonist and just runs with it.



Edit: This topic prompted me to look at her youtube channel again.... and, seriously, what the hell is this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXonEVqDG3s&feature=player_embedded#!


Wow, that video of Argerich is amazing. I really wish it went a minute longer - it looked like Argerich was walking over to the bassoonist to make him take a bow or something. I would have loved to see her face there.

As far as the topic concerns Lola, she's nice to look at and nothing special artistically speaking. However, if she wants to start making classical music videos, that would be fine by me. I presume with her flashy image she's already serving as a gateway to classical piano for younger, image conscious people. If she increases her visibility by doing more of these and draws more young people to classical music, I'd be glad. I think her level of public acclaim just about matches her (genetic plus artistic) talents at the moment. So, just as long as she doesn't ride a wave of popularity up to undeserved artistic status like another pianist I could mention whistle all will be right in the world, and her contribution will be appreciated.
_________________________
Currently Studying: Bach - English Suite No. 5; Beethoven - Op. 27 No. 1; Chopin - Op. 27 No. 1; Chopin - 3rd Scherzo

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#1530188 - 10/07/10 12:34 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: MarkH]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3758
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: MarkH
As far as the topic concerns Lola, she's nice to look at and nothing special artistically speaking. However, if she wants to start making classical music videos, that would be fine by me. I presume with her flashy image she's already serving as a gateway to classical piano for younger, image conscious people. If she increases her visibility by doing more of these and draws more young people to classical music, I'd be glad. I think her level of public acclaim just about matches her (genetic plus artistic) talents at the moment. So, just as long as she just doesn't ride a wave of popularity up to undeserved artistic status like another pianist I could mention whistle all will be right in the world, and her contribution will be appreciated.


I basically agree. While I found her variations on Jingle Bells (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNMAEn3QUSI) to be a depressing display of mindless virtuosity, I think almost anything she does in the direction of crossing over to a larger public is good for the cause, as tasteless as its artistry might be.

As long as she doesn't cross over into the realm of abomination; for me, that wasteland is represented not by the pianist you referred to (who I actually like), but instead the likes of Maksim Mrvica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSkh5dgn69U).

-Jason
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#1530193 - 10/07/10 12:42 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: beet31425]
MarkH Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 855
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: beet31425

As long as she doesn't cross over into the realm of abomination; for me, that wasteland is represented not by the pianist you referred to (who I actually like), but instead the likes of Maksim Mrvica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSkh5dgn69U).

-Jason


Agreed completely concerning Maksim! sick
_________________________
Currently Studying: Bach - English Suite No. 5; Beethoven - Op. 27 No. 1; Chopin - Op. 27 No. 1; Chopin - 3rd Scherzo

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#1530210 - 10/07/10 01:14 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17952
Loc: Victoria, BC
How is Astanova any different from Mrvica in general concept and showmanship?

Some of you seem to be saying : "Classical music at any cost, as long as it brings in new listeners." I am inclined to disagree. The last thing classical music needs is a new crowd of new listeners who expect that classical performance must be accompanied by light shows, percussion, "goth" costumes and makeup (or whatever the next "cool" trend may be) and videos that have nothing to do with the music.

It seems to me that that would be just anther nail in the coffin for "serious" music.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1530219 - 10/07/10 01:30 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: BruceD]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3758
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: BruceD
How is Astanova any different from Mrvica in general concept and showmanship?

Fair question! The difference is this: Mrvica changes the music itself; Astanova does not. Whether this is an essential or arbitrary distinction will remain a matter of opinion.

But for me, adding an orchestra and drum track to the Revolutionary Etude fundamentally corrupts the essence of the piece. (And then he goes on to play pseudo-classical cr*p like "Exodus", and what new-comer to the classical world will really hear a difference between this and the bastardized Chopin?)

Whereas in the psycho-video discussed above, it's pretty silly, but at least Astanova is really playing the Rachmaninoff prelude. And I think those Jingle Bell variations are awful, but at least they're a display of the real textures and devices from the long tradition of piano virtuosity.

Mind you, I'm not arguing the case for Astanova as great artist. I'm just trying to articulate why I find her extravagances benevolent, and Mrvica's not. Conversely, if he kept the light shows and goth style, but really played the music for real, with respect for its essence, I'd have no problem with him either. I'd say: "Welcome to the cause of showing the Music to the People!"


-Jason


p.s. On your point about people growing to expect this kind of visual nonsense at concerts, that's a good concern to raise. I have mixed feelings-- I don't like this silly visual aesthetic either. But I have an equally difficult time with the stiff, formal concert aesthetic you see now anyway. I'd love to see something more generally relaxed and informal, and the goth stuff isn't exactly that, but... at least it's different.
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#1530237 - 10/07/10 01:41 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1659
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Hadn't heard of her before this thread. Checking out her Wikipedia page, it's obviously written by someone with an interest in promoting her. I've been an editor at Wikipedia for several years, and it never fails to amaze me how those who are the least noteworthy or distinguised have the pages with the most hyperbole - mostly because the articles get less traffic and going over by experienced editors.

It's amazing how far the mildly talented can go on the basis of airbrushed photos, aggressive management, and Internet savvy.
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Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
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#1530244 - 10/07/10 01:44 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Butters109 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 207
Speaking of Maksim.... this video literally made me laugh out loud when the techno track comes in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAgjy8K_Qvs&feature=related

What was he thinking? Seriously?

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#1530304 - 10/07/10 02:48 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Somehow, when a musician's looks take precedent over the music she's playing then something is very wrong. Or maybe I've still got too many hormones running through my system.

Though I find when I am paying attention to the music I start thinking,"Really...No, Really. Well OK then."

2:02 was the moments where such a though came into existence.


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#1530324 - 10/07/10 03:19 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida

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#1530343 - 10/07/10 03:54 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
@MikeN .... BOOOOOOOBS!!!!!
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1530346 - 10/07/10 04:06 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
wow Lizstaddict.. Sergio Tiempo is fantastic.
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accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1530347 - 10/07/10 04:11 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: apple*]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6294
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: apple*
wow Lizstaddict.. Sergio Tiempo is fantastic.


Apple - You beat me to it....Sergio is terrific !!!!
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1530378 - 10/07/10 04:58 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Victor25]
ChibiSF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 222
Loc: Long Island, New York
Originally Posted By: Victor25
@MikeN .... BOOOOOOOBS!!!!!

thumb

lol
_________________________
Conservatory of Music @ Brooklyn College
Piano Performance, Class of 2014

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#1530383 - 10/07/10 05:04 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: beet31425]
Zindaras Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 180
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: beet31425
I basically agree. While I found her variations on Jingle Bells (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNMAEn3QUSI) to be a depressing display of mindless virtuosity, I think almost anything she does in the direction of crossing over to a larger public is good for the cause, as tasteless as its artistry might be.

As long as she doesn't cross over into the realm of abomination; for me, that wasteland is represented not by the pianist you referred to (who I actually like), but instead the likes of Maksim Mrvica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSkh5dgn69U).

-Jason


At least the Jingle Bells variation was pretty funny and still quite pianistic, and just a little practice joke. Maksim is...well...stunning. I had only heard his version of the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody before, which is actually pretty good and normal, but this is just weird and superfluous.
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"Practice makes perfect, but obsession makes better."

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#1530395 - 10/07/10 05:19 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
I would probably (key word there) pay to hear LL before I'd bother with Lola or Maksim, both of whom make me want to hurl.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1530420 - 10/07/10 05:59 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
I once showed my teacher some of her performances on You Tube (and I tried to find her at her most tamed and "musical"). He said she should be "banned" (old soviet terminology??) laugh and in the meantime, he will ban all his students from watching that! ("Not a serious musician!")

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#1530435 - 10/07/10 06:19 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
abcdefgh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 203
Her Liszt is so, weightless.

To big for her.

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#1530436 - 10/07/10 06:20 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
jlynne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/10
Posts: 102
Valentina's most viewed video is Rach's Little Red Riding Hood - nearly 1,000,000 views. Her better videos get a fraction of that attention.

Lola's most viewed video is her virtuoso take on a pop song by Rhianna. hmmmm, 700,000 views

Maksim doesn't seem to have his own Youtube channel, but videos uploaded by his fans garner multiple millions of views.

If nothing else, that tells you something about the Youtube audience.

I enjoy them all in different ways, but I think that is only because I've actually listened to them all. How many die hard Maksim fans have actually listened to Valentina's Totentanz? or compared Lola's Ocean Etude to Valentina's? On the other hand, how many classical afficionados have actually listened to Maksim's Hungarian Rhapsody rather than just dismissing it out of hand? The value of cross-over music (beyond making piles of money) is the creation of cross-over audiences. That's the value of Lola and Maksim.

If I'd never heard of Chopin before this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9NrQzJCWW8 - I'd be inclined to search out more. If Lang Lang were my introduction to Chopin, I'd run away. Screaming.
_________________________
99% of what I produce at the piano is simply noise, but that other 1%? That's music.

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#1530443 - 10/07/10 06:23 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
abcdefgh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 203
This is a very interesting point ^

I have the moonlight sonata up, very few views, Dr Gradus... a few thousand.

I did an acoustic version of Lady GaGa Pokerface for my friend.

Well over 1,000,000 views!

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#1530479 - 10/07/10 06:46 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Keith D Kerman Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3314
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
The piano sounds terrible as does the recording quality, but she does a good job with the F minor Liszt etude. I love Kissin and Watts in this piece, but I have definately heard more "serious" and respected pianists play this etude no where near as well as Ms Astanova.
Her theatrical movements are not to my taste, but I have seen a lot worse from more respected and more serious pianists.
The most disturbing thing to me was the piano being that out of tune.
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#1530486 - 10/07/10 06:55 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2575
Loc: Not in Texas
I watched her video of Scriabin's Etude Op. 8 No. 12. She certainly played it better than I could but then I'm not a "virtuoso pianist"

I think Victor has it right.
_________________________
Greg

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#1530579 - 10/07/10 09:11 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: BB Player]
Bech Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 844
Loc: Indiana
I'm wondering how many of Lola's critics here have ability equal to hers? I see "command of the instrument" when I watch her. Not timidity but in your face command--and, a determination to do it her way. I like that.

If I were a concert pianist I'd play it my way and to heck with the critics. I might stay poor or I might become rich--but I'd be me. I don't see how a person can be and stay real and do otherwise.

Bech
_________________________
Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.

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#1530588 - 10/07/10 09:33 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Yes, the her command over the instrument is good. I actually stumbled on the video as I was looking for some motivation for my own study of the Liszt etude.

I think most of the members of this form take issue with the fact that the music becomes all about Lola instead of being about the music itself.

I have to mention that ironically I didn't notice the clear view of Lola's... well... um...assets. I payed more attention to the face which to me look rather well, to put bluntly, stupid.

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#1530625 - 10/07/10 11:24 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
I already threw up 3 times last night, I really don't want to do it again...

Makes me think, though. If I start dressing and acting like that, will I be famous too?
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1530628 - 10/07/10 11:33 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Pogorelich.]
Butters109 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 207
I'm not sure if I'd call Miss Astanova famous.

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#1530629 - 10/07/10 11:35 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Pogorelich.]
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Makes me think, though. If I start dressing and acting like that, will I be famous too?


You'd get a few million views and likes on youtube. laugh

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#1530637 - 10/07/10 11:52 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: LisztAddict]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: LisztAddict
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Makes me think, though. If I start dressing and acting like that, will I be famous too?


You'd get a few million views and likes on youtube. laugh


And part of my soul will die forever... smirk
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1530642 - 10/08/10 12:05 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Inlanding Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1648
Loc: Colorado
Here are a couple more videos that might be of interest. We've all got our favorites and these are a couple of mine, worth every minute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwPBGOt5Gx4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USCF6-fIXPU
_________________________


A Bit of YouTube

PTG Associate Member

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#1530657 - 10/08/10 12:34 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
jlynne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/10
Posts: 102
Wow. Just wow.

How do you pronounce his name? GAVRYLYUK

I need to remember that one. Command of the instrument indeed.
_________________________
99% of what I produce at the piano is simply noise, but that other 1%? That's music.

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#1530663 - 10/08/10 12:48 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: MikeN]
bellamusica Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/10
Posts: 369
I'm just amazed that she can manage all those notes with such a tense and awkward hand position. How many other pianists manage to play Liszt with their fingers pointing at the sky instead of the keyboard?

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#1530676 - 10/08/10 01:18 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: bellamusica]
BruceD Online   content
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Originally Posted By: bellamusica
I'm just amazed that she can manage all those notes with such a tense and awkward hand position. How many other pianists manage to play Liszt with their fingers pointing at the sky instead of the keyboard?


I was wondering somewhat the same thing. Her hands look extremely tense.

Regards,
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#1530677 - 10/08/10 01:19 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: jlynne]
MarkH Offline
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Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: jlynne
Wow. Just wow.

How do you pronounce his name? GAVRYLYUK

I need to remember that one. Command of the instrument indeed.


Indeed! Where did he come from and why can I only find 2 of his CDs at Arkivmusic? Must hear more...
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Currently Studying: Bach - English Suite No. 5; Beethoven - Op. 27 No. 1; Chopin - Op. 27 No. 1; Chopin - 3rd Scherzo

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#1530724 - 10/08/10 04:26 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
fuzzy8balls Offline
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Let me say that she has a very healthy... chest

YEAAAAHHHHH

/thread
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#1530769 - 10/08/10 07:40 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: MarkH]
izaldu Offline
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Originally Posted By: MarkH
Originally Posted By: beet31425

As long as she doesn't cross over into the realm of abomination; for me, that wasteland is represented not by the pianist you referred to (who I actually like), but instead the likes of Maksim Mrvica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSkh5dgn69U).

-Jason


Agreed completely concerning Maksim! sick


oh god ...that was terrible

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#1530777 - 10/08/10 07:48 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
izaldu Offline
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Well i wonder what were you thinking when you said you can't find a miore exciting pianist.

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#1530780 - 10/08/10 07:54 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: MarkH]
Inlanding Online   content
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Originally Posted By: MarkH
Originally Posted By: jlynne
Wow. Just wow.

How do you pronounce his name? GAVRYLYUK

I need to remember that one. Command of the instrument indeed.


Indeed! Where did he come from and why can I only find 2 of his CDs at Arkivmusic? Must hear more...


Markh and jlynne, and all,

More about Alexander here:
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Gavrylyuk-Alexander.htm

Your favorite search engine will provide you with more - enjoy!

I ordered CDs of his via Barnes and Noble. It took a week for them to arrive.

Total command of the instrument, indeed. His work is simply jaw-dropping good, a virtuoso by definition.
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#1531222 - 10/08/10 07:00 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
How you doing? Offline
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There definitely more exciting pianist like Claire (even though she seems to be bit inconsistent)- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HKO9CZkJLA I like Lola but I she's definitely not the best in the world which you seem to think.

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#1531289 - 10/08/10 09:34 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
abcdefgh Offline
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I like the idea of Maksim.
But the execution on the other hand...

He is EXTREMELY popular in Asia and opened up the classical music world to a whole new generation, so I can admire him for that.

And he is actually a technically good player. He must have worked hard I'm sure.

His Hungarian Rhapsody isn't without it's charm, and his performach of the Flight of the Bumblebee is very sweet I think.

I just can't help thinking...

you've butchered that piece with all the added crap.

And I'm more than sure he's in the same boat as Miss Astanova...
The pretty face is only going to help him sell.

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#1531297 - 10/08/10 09:47 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: beet31425]
bellamusica Offline
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Registered: 10/07/10
Posts: 369
Originally Posted By: beet31425
[quote=MarkH]

As long as she doesn't cross over into the realm of abomination; for me, that wasteland is represented not by the pianist you referred to (who I actually like), but instead the likes of Maksim Mrvica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSkh5dgn69U).



Dear lord. I couldn't even watch the whole thing.

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#1531324 - 10/08/10 10:43 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Frozenicicles Offline
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Hm...Maksim Mrvica is pretty cute. I'd prefer someone like him to be the teen idol of the day rather than Justin Bieber. Plus his rebellious score-changing persona is attractive in a way...I guess stores has lost all respect for me now. laugh I wonder what sort of performer Liszt would be if he lived in present day? It would be funny if he decided to be a rock star or someone like Maksim.

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#1531330 - 10/08/10 10:53 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Skorpius Offline
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Richard Clayderman? LOL
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#1531332 - 10/08/10 10:54 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Bech Offline
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Alexei Sultanov was a good friend of Lola's. He won 1st place at the Van Cliburn competition and took second place in the Chopin competition a few years later. He refused the 2nd place award.

Sadly, he died when only 35 years of age. He is outstanding. You might want to give him a look on YouTube.

Bech


Edited by Bech (10/08/10 11:04 PM)
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#1531446 - 10/09/10 03:45 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Victor25 Offline
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Anymore pictures of Lola Astanova? Does she give private concerts?
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Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1531461 - 10/09/10 04:31 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
stores Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bech
Alexei Sultanov was a good friend of Lola's.


What's your point?
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#1531478 - 10/09/10 05:04 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Andromaque Offline
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Sultanov: what awful tragedy in such a short lifespan..
Not sure which is worse: the strokes that paralyzed and eventually killed him or the self mutilation events of his earlier years.. I wonder if anyone has written a good biography of him. He also won both the Van Cliburn and the Chopin* competitions. I don't know if this story is true but he supposedly punched the wall during the Tchaikovsky competition, shattering his 5th finger and had to withdraw. He told his parents and teachers that the fallboard fell on his hand to avoid their wrath and disappointment..
He was an immense talent.


* He actually shared 2nd place with Giusiano. They did not give a first prize that year (1995). Gabriela Montero was 3rd.


Edited by Andromaque (10/09/10 05:12 AM)

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#1532283 - 10/10/10 11:53 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
debrucey Offline
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I find her technique incredible awkward and tense. How dare she not develop tendinitis instead of me! :P hehe

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#1532776 - 10/11/10 02:23 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Guldesque Offline
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I cannot believe all the criticism I read here. I wouldn't ever compare her to Lang langs of the world because everything she does is honest and genuine, the same way Gould did it. I listened to some of her audio recordings (better sound quality) after I read some of the comments on this thread and found her Chopin sonata far superior to that of say Argerich and on par with Horowitz. It is very judgmental to downplay her tremendous abilities and talent because of her physical beauty. Yes, classical music scene has had attractive women performers like Argerich, Grimaud, Lisitsa etc. and those are some fine ladies. But lets face it there hasn't ever been a female performer who was so unapologetically striking, whose look was so uncomfortably sexy that it was hard to concentrated on the music . So a lot of people are confused, and choose to calm themselves by saying that she's got the beauty while others got the talent. Well, I listen to a lot of music and am sorry to say that this argument is becoming somewhat weak in my eyes and ears. Her playing is intellectual and coherent and she is a natural, instinctive interpreter who happens to have great technique on top of that. My conclusion: people are simply a bit jealous, thrown off by the whole "situation".

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#1532845 - 10/11/10 04:44 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Guldesque]
stores Offline
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Originally Posted By: Guldesque
I cannot believe all the criticism I read here. I wouldn't ever compare her to Lang langs of the world because everything she does is honest and genuine, the same way Gould did it. I listened to some of her audio recordings (better sound quality) after I read some of the comments on this thread and found her Chopin sonata far superior to that of say Argerich and on par with Horowitz. It is very judgmental to downplay her tremendous abilities and talent because of her physical beauty. Yes, classical music scene has had attractive women performers like Argerich, Grimaud, Lisitsa etc. and those are some fine ladies. But lets face it there hasn't ever been a female performer who was so unapologetically striking, whose look was so uncomfortably sexy that it was hard to concentrated on the music . So a lot of people are confused, and choose to calm themselves by saying that she's got the beauty while others got the talent. Well, I listen to a lot of music and am sorry to say that this argument is becoming somewhat weak in my eyes and ears. Her playing is intellectual and coherent and she is a natural, instinctive interpreter who happens to have great technique on top of that. My conclusion: people are simply a bit jealous, thrown off by the whole "situation".


I've said it before and I'll say it again...thank you for the heads up...you are now officially on the not to be taken seriously list. To assume that I cannot concentrate on the music, because some bimbo with too much makeup is sitting at the piano is quite simply ludicrous. To level her playing with that of Horowitz and Argerich is entirely laughable (oh wait you said it was superior to Argerich...) and unfortunately (for you) casts you in the role of forum jester/fool. I'm always amused by those who shout "jealousy!" when they read any sort of critique. Jealous of what? Of Lola? Ummm, no. If my opinion is that she sucks, then I'm CERTAINLY not jealous of her suckiness and don't wish to attain such. At any rate...carry on...
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1532860 - 10/11/10 05:23 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
debrucey Offline
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Thats a good point stores. Why would anyone be jealous of someone they believe to suck? Doesn't really make sense.

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#1532870 - 10/11/10 06:05 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
izaldu Offline
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Better than Argerich ... go buy some new ears

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#1532964 - 10/11/10 09:24 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Guldesque]
Hank Drake Offline
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Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1659
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Guldesque
I cannot believe all the criticism I read here. I wouldn't ever compare her to Lang langs of the world because everything she does is honest and genuine, the same way Gould did it. I listened to some of her audio recordings (better sound quality) after I read some of the comments on this thread and found her Chopin sonata far superior to that of say Argerich and on par with Horowitz. It is very judgmental to downplay her tremendous abilities and talent because of her physical beauty. Yes, classical music scene has had attractive women performers like Argerich, Grimaud, Lisitsa etc. and those are some fine ladies. But lets face it there hasn't ever been a female performer who was so unapologetically striking, whose look was so uncomfortably sexy that it was hard to concentrated on the music . So a lot of people are confused, and choose to calm themselves by saying that she's got the beauty while others got the talent. Well, I listen to a lot of music and am sorry to say that this argument is becoming somewhat weak in my eyes and ears. Her playing is intellectual and coherent and she is a natural, instinctive interpreter who happens to have great technique on top of that. My conclusion: people are simply a bit jealous, thrown off by the whole "situation".


The ultimate test of one's playing is whether it stands up to a listening test without video, where one is neither impressed nor distressed by the player's looks or mannerisms. Also, it is important that the performance be real and unedited. I've tried this with a number of instrumentalists, including the so-called Golden Age players (many of whom were never documented on film), to the current crop of youngsters.

So, I can confidently say that my dislike of Lang Lang's playing has nothing to do with the Betty Boop faces he makes, and my sense of repulsion at Ms. Astanova's playing is not related to her looks or her incredibly bizarre approach to the keyboard. Rather, in Ms. Astanova's case, it is related to her awkward phrasing, harsh tone, and lack of line.
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The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
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#1533025 - 10/11/10 10:58 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
"
Originally Posted By: Guldesque
I cannot believe all the criticism I read here. I wouldn't ever compare her to Lang langs of the world because everything she does is honest and genuine, the same way Gould did it. I listened to some of her audio recordings (better sound quality) after I read some of the comments on this thread and found her Chopin sonata far superior to that of say Argerich and on par with Horowitz. It is very judgmental to downplay her tremendous abilities and talent because of her physical beauty. Yes, classical music scene has had attractive women performers like Argerich, Grimaud, Lisitsa etc. and those are some fine ladies. But lets face it there hasn't ever been a female performer who was so unapologetically striking, whose look was so uncomfortably sexy that it was hard to concentrated on the music . So a lot of people are confused, and choose to calm themselves by saying that she's got the beauty while others got the talent. Well, I listen to a lot of music and am sorry to say that this argument is becoming somewhat weak in my eyes and ears. Her playing is intellectual and coherent and she is a natural, instinctive interpreter who happens to have great technique on top of that. My conclusion: people are simply a bit jealous, thrown off by the whole "situation".


Jealous of what, her arrogance? Her incredible vanity? Her awkward way of playing? Right.. open up your ears, it all comes through in her playing even if you aren't looking. I couldn't stand looking at her so I started listening with the picture blocked, and still hated it.

I'm so tired of the jealous argument, it's so f.ing stupid. Do you know who I'm jealous of? Richter, Uchida and Gergiev. People who are actually incredible, humble and make me enjoy listening to their music. Get real.
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#1533032 - 10/11/10 11:07 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: debrucey]
Victor25 Offline
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Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: debrucey
Thats a good point stores. Why would anyone be jealous of someone they believe to suck? Doesn't really make sense.


So true, you read it on youtube all the time. Lang Lang sucks, ow your just jealous!!

Still, Lola can play topless, it would be ´new´ and ´pop´ and very ´unclassical´, so entirely her style.
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1533409 - 10/11/10 09:04 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Guldesque Offline
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Registered: 01/04/09
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This incredible array of unhealthy and very hostile messages only supports my point. I'd suggest you look inside and find the reason why a person who simply plays the piano, and does it rather well triggers such a reaction. I can only draw parallel with Paderewsky, Liszt, Paganini etc. History my friends, they were all called what you are calling Lola today. I think students, which most of you are, feel somewhat threatened by her combination of qualities, that's all. Also, it is very much a student mentality to laugh at anybody who dares to compare Argerich to a young person. I bet Stores, you did not listen to the two versions of the sonata I was referring to. I bet you did not listen to both (in professional headphones) several times, the way I did, before forming an opinion and shooting back at me with disdain. In your stagnant mind the answer will never change because you grew up perceiving Argerich as an established legend who can do no wrong. (Very safe and risk free position.) Therefore your opinion is very superficial and based purely on the "name" behind the playing and not the playing itself.
Pogorelich, by the tone of your comments I presume you are a woman? Well, your reaction is very clear to me and I am not going to aggravate you any further. Allow me to say, however, that in my view Gergiev is the most self-centered, egotistical human being to ever live, who makes vanity itself look humble. I have friends who played in his orchestra and trust me, you don't want to know what they think of him. One look is enough to see it, but I wouldn't expect you to decipher it because as it is (correctly) pointed out in your profile, you are after all, in the state of denial. The good news for you is you are not alone. Ironically, your idol Gergiev clearly thought quite highly of Lola's playing. Guess he needs a new set of ears as well.

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#1533412 - 10/11/10 09:10 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
debrucey Offline
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Your ranting is confusing. It seems that you find it incomprehensible that anybody could have a legitimate reason for disliking your idol.

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#1533426 - 10/11/10 09:31 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
sportsdude2060 Offline
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Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 133
Eh, I've only viewed 2 of her videos -- Chopin's Ocean Etude and Fantasie Impromptu. I enjoyed the first, but the second was (in my opinion) inferior to yundi li's.


As for the op's challenge -- depends on what you mean by "exciting." wink

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#1533478 - 10/11/10 11:11 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Originally Posted By: Guldesque

Pogorelich, by the tone of your comments I presume you are a woman? Well, your reaction is very clear to me and I am not going to aggravate you any further. Allow me to say, however, that in my view Gergiev is the most self-centered, egotistical human being to ever live, who makes vanity itself look humble. I have friends who played in his orchestra and trust me, you don't want to know what they think of him. One look is enough to see it, but I wouldn't expect you to decipher it because as it is (correctly) pointed out in your profile, you are after all, in the state of denial. The good news for you is you are not alone. Ironically, your idol Gergiev clearly thought quite highly of Lola's playing. Guess he needs a new set of ears as well.


By the tone of my comments..? That was uncalled for.

Really, Gergiev is self-centered? Not that my statement had anything to do with his personality, but ok.. That man has done and continues to do more for music than anyone else right now, possibly. And the most important thing is that he does it well. When he is on stage, the MUSIC matters - whether he is an egoist or not, in your view, is irrelevant because it does not come through in the way he makes music. Which I really don't find with your friend Lola.

And I'm not surprised he supported her: there are certain politics involved in music. Did you know he also recorded with Lang Lang? Same thing. Also, I'm not one of those people who will believe things because other people believe them. Feel free to like her - art is subjective. I don't like Argerich, so your comparison doesn't do much for me..

P.S. "state of denial" is a joke, you know, the ha-ha type of thing.
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#1533529 - 10/12/10 12:59 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Kuanpiano Offline
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I didn't like her rachmaninoff sonata, nor her Scriabin Etude in c sharp minor. She deviates from the score a lot and at times just disturbs tempo heavily, or plays in an inappropriate mood. How am I qualified to say these things? Well I've studied the scores...and it's clear that she doesn't really.
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#1533549 - 10/12/10 01:57 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
fuzzy8balls Offline
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Posts: 465
Loc: San Diego, CA
"rawrrrrrrrr" just heard a lion roar!!! (>__<) haha
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#1533570 - 10/12/10 03:13 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Guldesque]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6294
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Guldesque
I cannot believe all the criticism I read here.

BELIEVE IT. grin

It is very judgmental to downplay her tremendous abilities and talent because of her physical beauty.....

I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS DOING THAT HERE.

But lets face it there hasn't ever been a female performer who was so unapologetically striking, whose look was so uncomfortably sexy that it was hard to concentrate on the music.

OR WHO DISPLAYS SO MUCH OF HER ANATOMY IN HER VIDEOS - THUS MAKING IT DIFFICULT FOR SOME FOLKS TO TAKE HER SERIOUSLY.

Her playing is intellectual and coherent and she is a natural, instinctive interpreter who happens to have great technique on top of that.

APPARENTLY THE VERDICT IS STILL OUT ON THAT. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW WELL-KNOWN AND RESPECTED MS. ASTANOVA IS TEN YEARS FROM NOW.

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#1533607 - 10/12/10 04:27 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Guldesque]
stores Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Guldesque
This incredible array of unhealthy and very hostile messages only supports my point. I'd suggest you look inside and find the reason why a person who simply plays the piano, and does it rather well triggers such a reaction. I can only draw parallel with Paderewsky, Liszt, Paganini etc. History my friends, they were all called what you are calling Lola today. I think students, which most of you are, feel somewhat threatened by her combination of qualities, that's all. Also, it is very much a student mentality to laugh at anybody who dares to compare Argerich to a young person. I bet Stores, you did not listen to the two versions of the sonata I was referring to. I bet you did not listen to both (in professional headphones) several times, the way I did, before forming an opinion and shooting back at me with disdain. In your stagnant mind the answer will never change because you grew up perceiving Argerich as an established legend who can do no wrong. (Very safe and risk free position.) Therefore your opinion is very superficial and based purely on the "name" behind the playing and not the playing itself.
Pogorelich, by the tone of your comments I presume you are a woman? Well, your reaction is very clear to me and I am not going to aggravate you any further. Allow me to say, however, that in my view Gergiev is the most self-centered, egotistical human being to ever live, who makes vanity itself look humble. I have friends who played in his orchestra and trust me, you don't want to know what they think of him. One look is enough to see it, but I wouldn't expect you to decipher it because as it is (correctly) pointed out in your profile, you are after all, in the state of denial. The good news for you is you are not alone. Ironically, your idol Gergiev clearly thought quite highly of Lola's playing. Guess he needs a new set of ears as well.


In professional headphones...hahahahaha...God, will someone help me up off the floor? Is Lola paying you? She MUST be, since no one with a clue would say such idiotic things. You sir/madam are a joke and I CONTINUE to laugh at you and your comparison to Argerich, Horowitz, et al. and have no problem with your label of "student" as I AM, and shall always be, a student of great music, but in the literal sense, no, I am not a student, but a teacher of many (and for many years).

By the way, I didn't grow up listening to, or even knowing WHO Argerich was...I didn't discover her until my university years. My appreciation for her artistry is NOT based on her name. I do not believe that she is some goddess who can do no wrong (in fact her penchant for speed and her Bach, specifically, both disappoint me greatly).
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1533726 - 10/12/10 09:38 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
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It also has nothing to do with "beauty" - I'm certainly not threatened =) and I'm not saying she's bad - she has the execution to be really good (hey, so does LL), but when someone puts themselves before the music, then that's it for me.. And why should I feel bad about having that opinion?
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1533936 - 10/12/10 02:35 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Victor25 Offline
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Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
Well Liszt boobs certainly weren´t as distracting as hers.
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1533941 - 10/12/10 02:41 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Pogorelich.]
Frozenicicles Offline
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Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 1324
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
It also has nothing to do with "beauty" - I'm certainly not threatened =) and I'm not saying she's bad - she has the execution to be really good (hey, so does LL), but when someone puts themselves before the music, then that's it for me.. And why should I feel bad about having that opinion?

That's an interesting comment, considering that many consider Ivo Pogorelich to be someone who puts himself before the music (or rather, the intentions of the composer). It was apparently the reason why he was eliminated from the Chopin competition.

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#1534260 - 10/12/10 11:32 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Frozenicicles]
Pogorelich. Offline
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Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Frozenicicles
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
It also has nothing to do with "beauty" - I'm certainly not threatened =) and I'm not saying she's bad - she has the execution to be really good (hey, so does LL), but when someone puts themselves before the music, then that's it for me.. And why should I feel bad about having that opinion?

That's an interesting comment, considering that many consider Ivo Pogorelich to be someone who puts himself before the music (or rather, the intentions of the composer). It was apparently the reason why he was eliminated from the Chopin competition.


Yeah that's what a lot of people think.. but if you've ever read any interviews with him or books on him, it's not true. I mean, I never got that through the music anyway, but you can get it confirmed in writing =) Come on, how can you even compare him to Ms Lola? Pogorelich is an artist.


Edited by Pogorelich. (10/12/10 11:34 PM)
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#1534326 - 10/13/10 01:16 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: carey]
Guldesque Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 42
Loc: United States
From the videos I've seen, she wears jeans and simple shirts, (perhaps I've missed the topless ones, if you find any, do share). While somehow majority of female pianists these days are wearing cleavage baring red hot numbers and showing much more skin than Lola ever did, yet nobody seems to complain. Go figure! I suppose it is acceptable for flat chested and/or not so attractive ladies.
In any case, Lola still has a lot of playing to do, and cover a lot more repertoire and I myself would be curious to see where she is going to be in 10 years. I am impressed so far.
I have to say it is very difficult to have a sensible discussion here because A) most people here are kids who are yet to hit puberty, who seem to have all the answers ( oh, good ol' teenage years) B)cannot support their argument with anything other than "oh this sucks AHAHAHAHA you are an idiot, I said so, therefore it's a fact". For people like Stores, a piece of advice: It is not always good to be a student. One must transition from being a student to being an artist. Students follow what artists do, not the other way around. With your boxed mentality you will always follow others and nobody will follow you. Then again, why would they? aAHAHAHAHA.

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#1534327 - 10/13/10 01:19 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Guldesque]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3758
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Guldesque
From the videos I've seen, she wears jeans and simple shirts....

You criticize the level of discussion in these forums, and then turn around and insult one of its members? Really?

-J


_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#1534328 - 10/13/10 01:24 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: beet31425]
Guldesque Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 42
Loc: United States
I have not insulted anyone. I can support my opinions and fyi I am the one who's been insulted and called an idiot, fool etc. The level of discussion on this particular topic is amusing, yes.

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#1534331 - 10/13/10 01:27 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3758
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Well, you did insult him, but then he did call your views idiotic, so, whatever, fair is fair. smile

peace--

-J
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#1534365 - 10/13/10 02:37 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Pogorelich.]
Frozenicicles Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 1324
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Frozenicicles
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
It also has nothing to do with "beauty" - I'm certainly not threatened =) and I'm not saying she's bad - she has the execution to be really good (hey, so does LL), but when someone puts themselves before the music, then that's it for me.. And why should I feel bad about having that opinion?

That's an interesting comment, considering that many consider Ivo Pogorelich to be someone who puts himself before the music (or rather, the intentions of the composer). It was apparently the reason why he was eliminated from the Chopin competition.


Yeah that's what a lot of people think.. but if you've ever read any interviews with him or books on him, it's not true. I mean, I never got that through the music anyway, but you can get it confirmed in writing =) Come on, how can you even compare him to Ms Lola? Pogorelich is an artist.

Haha, I didn't directly compare him to Lola. But honestly, I find the majority of his interpretations to be bizarre, especially the ones that are so slow that they're not going anywhere. At what point do you cross over from being artistic to just plain weird? Also, many of his interviews do focus a lot on himself, but that might be just the nosy interviewers. I remember reading one comment about his wife's liver exploding all over him that made me go ??? because I'm pretty sure that's a huge stretch of the truth. Are you a fan of his pre-retirement works or his current ones? I've read some pretty scathing recent reviews of his performances.

Bottom line - putting a healthy dose of yourself into the music can make you stand out. Pogorelich, Lola, and LL all have that in common, even if it's not to our tastes.

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#1534392 - 10/13/10 04:27 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Guldesque]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Guldesque
From the videos I've seen, she wears jeans and simple shirts, (perhaps I've missed the topless ones, if you find any, do share). While somehow majority of female pianists these days are wearing cleavage baring red hot numbers and showing much more skin than Lola ever did, yet nobody seems to complain. Go figure! I suppose it is acceptable for flat chested and/or not so attractive ladies.
In any case, Lola still has a lot of playing to do, and cover a lot more repertoire and I myself would be curious to see where she is going to be in 10 years. I am impressed so far.
I have to say it is very difficult to have a sensible discussion here because A) most people here are kids who are yet to hit puberty, who seem to have all the answers ( oh, good ol' teenage years) B)cannot support their argument with anything other than "oh this sucks AHAHAHAHA you are an idiot, I said so, therefore it's a fact". For people like Stores, a piece of advice: It is not always good to be a student. One must transition from being a student to being an artist. Students follow what artists do, not the other way around. With your boxed mentality you will always follow others and nobody will follow you. Then again, why would they? aAHAHAHAHA.


Your first paragraph is exactly what's wrong with most people's ears these days...they're not listening, they're looking. Who cares what she wears? Who cares how big her boobs are? What on earth the visual has to do with making music is beyond me. When you learn to pull your head out of your pants and stop thinking with little Guldie, get yourself an education, and learn to truly listen, then you will begin speaking from an informed stance and not one founded on blissful ignorance.
A real musician is, always will be, and will always consider himself to be, a student, because the learning process is never complete. Where you err here (outside of the fact that you clearly can't read what I formerly wrote in this regard) is that a true student does not follow any artist, but is a student of great music itself. I wouldn't expect someone who has made the claims you have to understand these things (clearly your student days have only just begun).
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1534399 - 10/13/10 04:52 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1250
Loc:
Problem, Guldesque , is that the whole thread sounds like a promotion stunt. Out of nowhere someone opens a thread about LA, stating she's the nex Horowitz. That's just laughable.

I d never watched the Chopin competition before this year. And i think LA wouldn 't have a chance of winning it, after watching her vids and watching the Chopin contestants. That gives some 40-50 new to-be-Horowitz.

Wouldn't it be better to just expose her videos and wait for people's honest opinions? Instead of shoving her art down people 's throats with statements like she s the new Horowitz, which do her no favours by the way.

The thread did a good job in promoting Gavrilyuk though. That guy doesn 't need undercover promotion, his playing seems to be enough to do the job.

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#1534465 - 10/13/10 08:34 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: izaldu]
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: izaldu
I d never watched the Chopin competition before this year. And i think LA wouldn 't have a chance of winning it, after watching her vids and watching the Chopin contestants.


Forget about winning, I don't think she can measure up to any of the 78 contestants there.

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#1534468 - 10/13/10 08:41 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: izaldu]
Keith D Kerman Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 3314
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
Originally Posted By: izaldu


I d never watched the Chopin competition before this year. And i think LA wouldn 't have a chance of winning it.........


She would not get accepted to compete in the Chopin competition. Or Van Cliburn, Kapell or any other major competition for that matter. She still plays the piano well, and will probably have a more successful career as a pianist ( success in this case being defined by exposure and money made playing classical piano music ) than most of the contestants in these competitions.
_________________________
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#1534476 - 10/13/10 08:51 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Guldesque]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Guldesque
I have not insulted anyone. I can support my opinions and fyi I am the one who's been insulted and called an idiot, fool etc. The level of discussion on this particular topic is amusing, yes.


Well, at least I didn't. However you've now called me a teenager, and "judging by your comments you must be a woman." You got the second one, but buddy, I'm 21, ok? Good lord.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1534478 - 10/13/10 08:54 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Frozenicicles

Haha, I didn't directly compare him to Lola. But honestly, I find the majority of his interpretations to be bizarre, especially the ones that are so slow that they're not going anywhere. At what point do you cross over from being artistic to just plain weird? Also, many of his interviews do focus a lot on himself, but that might be just the nosy interviewers. I remember reading one comment about his wife's liver exploding all over him that made me go ??? because I'm pretty sure that's a huge stretch of the truth. Are you a fan of his pre-retirement works or his current ones? I've read some pretty scathing recent reviews of his performances.

Bottom line - putting a healthy dose of yourself into the music can make you stand out. Pogorelich, Lola, and LL all have that in common, even if it's not to our tastes.


Actually, it is true that his wife died like that. He hasbeen traumatized ever since. Wouldn't you, if the one person you loved so much passed away in such a horrible manner?

I'm a fan of his early works only. Probably up until the mid nineties. I agree that everything after that is very bizzare..
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1534515 - 10/13/10 10:14 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Jacob777 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 103
Music and competition. Wow, I become sad now. Here I thought that those who lived and breathed music did so because they couldn't help it, the need for ecstacy had to be transmitted and felt. That passion and joy was the great driver, not simple competition that we see all around us in every day life.

Then I read this thread and after the first 10 responses or so I stop from sadness that all they talk about is "I have heard musicians that are better", "she is not better than..." etc. My guess is Mozart and Beethoven are weeping in their grave right now from these sorry arguments.

To me Astanova comes across as a brave, curious and creative artist, exploring the meaning of art, exploring new territory (look at her website and the vidoes where she speaks about art). Her technique may not be out of this world, but then technique was always secondary to all the true greats (and we all know the expense with which top 1%ishness is often attained, usually drying out musicality in the process, except for very few). Her passion for music is alive and well. Is it so for you too? Or did joy get lost somewhere and music become dry and is this why you are now sitting on the internet comparing artists in this sorry manner?

No wonder it is a dying art if the majority of its practitioners have this view - which is so foreign to all art. Normal people are right to stay away.

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#1534537 - 10/13/10 10:53 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2307
Loc: SoCal
Jacob777, well said.
_________________________
Gary

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#1534556 - 10/13/10 11:12 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Plowboy]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1250
Loc:
I have nothing against LA, as i don't know her, she may be a wonderful person. But if someone comes witth a statement as bold as "I challenge you to find a more exciting concert pianist.", well, seems someone accepts the challenge. I can think of dozens of more exciting concert pianists. AND IM TALKING STRICTLY MUSIC HERE , to quote the op.

Its not about competition, it sabout preferences. I prefer Richter to Astanova. What's the big deal? You even mentioned Beethoven and Mozart ... why not some other lesser known composers? See, it s about preferences.

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#1534563 - 10/13/10 11:18 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Jacob777]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6294
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Jacob777
............
Then I read this thread and after the first 10 responses or so I stop from sadness that all they talk about is "I have heard musicians that are better", "she is not better than..." etc. My guess is Mozart and Beethoven are weeping in their grave right now from these sorry arguments.

To me Astanova comes across as a brave, curious and creative artist, exploring the meaning of art, exploring new territory (look at her website and the vidoes where she speaks about art). Her technique may not be out of this world, but then technique was always secondary to all the true greats (and we all know the expense with which top 1%ishness is often attained, usually drying out musicality in the process, except for very few). Her passion for music is alive and well. Is it so for you too? Or did joy get lost somewhere and music become dry and is this why you are now sitting on the internet comparing artists in this sorry manner?

No wonder it is a dying art if the majority of its practitioners have this view - which is so foreign to all art. Normal people are right to stay away.


Jacob - The problem started with the original post. The OP challenged members to find a more exciting pianist - and, of course, everyone here is entitled to their opinions - including you. But IMO you are making some very unfair assumptions about the folks who participate in these forums. Ms. Astanova may have great passion for music and a more than adequate technique - but it is extremely unlikely that she will ever become or be considered a "great" pianist.
_________________________
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#1534572 - 10/13/10 11:37 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
RachelEDNC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 79
I have been lurking, reading this thread... and really feel like I need to say something...

Can we talk about the fact that Astanova is a 25 year old woman and choosing to portray herself as a sex object. She is not a minor being dressed up by someone else, she is making the choice to look this way. People can dress however they choose, but they need to be aware that others are making assumptions based on their appearance. If I wanted to portray myself as an entertainer, I would dress like Astanova. If I wanted people to take me seriously as a musician, I would cover up and dress like a professional.

She is obviously an intelligent person, from reading her wiki page, she graduated with a MM from Rice when she was 23. Now most people trying to pursue a career, as a pianist or possibly as an educator, would not have pictures/videos of themselves looking like they belong on the cover of Maxim. Once again, she is 25!!! She is making a choice to show herself this way, and to me that says she is putting her appearance well before the actual music.

Basically, I think she is well aware that she is not making it into the Van Cliburn competition anytime soon, and is choosing to just attract attention with her looks. For that reason, I do not think the musicality of these videos is anything worthy of discussion. Great entertainer, but not many people choose to discuss the musicality of entertainers either.

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#1534646 - 10/13/10 01:13 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: RachelEDNC]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3876
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: RachelEDNC
[...]Can we talk about the fact that Astanova is a 25 year old woman and choosing to portray herself as a sex object.

[...]Now most people trying to pursue a career, as a pianist or possibly as an educator, would not have pictures/videos of themselves looking like they belong on the cover of Maxim. Once again, she is 25!!! She is making a choice to show herself this way, and to me that says she is putting her appearance well before the actual music. {...]


Could not have said it better, Rachel! She strikes me as someone who has opted to stop doing the work of truly exploring music in favor of selling out for "fame" and "stardom" in the cult of personality, ala Lady Gaga. She is clearly, very self-consciously posing on the piano bench.

Pitty. Maybe she'll come to her senses and calm down enough to make music again some day. People do change over time...
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1534674 - 10/13/10 01:41 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
fuzzy8balls Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 465
Loc: San Diego, CA
Quote:
When you learn to pull your head out of your pants and stop thinking with little Guldie


^^ this
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#1534676 - 10/13/10 01:43 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
In the mean time, lets enjoy her assets, and put the volume on mute.
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1534693 - 10/13/10 02:05 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Victor25]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8853
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Victor25
In the mean time, lets enjoy her assets, and put the volume on mute.

Certainly the recommended way to get through a Maksim video.
_________________________
Jason

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#1534722 - 10/13/10 02:51 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Victor, I am not exactly a prude, but gosh.. you have made that comment ad nauseam here and elsewhere... We get it.. It is just that this is not the pilots' lounge, you know!


Edited by Andromaque (10/13/10 02:54 PM)

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#1534877 - 10/13/10 07:20 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Victor25]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Victor25
In the mean time, lets enjoy her assets, and put the volume on mute.



I've no doubt that you'll jump me for being rude, but as I told Guldesque, you, too, need to pull your head out of your pants and stop thinking with little Vic. Cmon, seriously, grow up man.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1534977 - 10/13/10 11:10 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: stores]
Bech Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 844
Loc: Indiana
Well...I started this and it went about as I expected.

How she looks, she's not Horowitz or Argerich, etc. She puts herself before the music, etc.

One question:

Can she play the piano well?

Bech
_________________________
Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.

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#1534987 - 10/13/10 11:24 PM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
jlynne Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/10
Posts: 102
Originally Posted By: Bech

One question:

Can she play the piano well?

Bech


Well, to sum up . . . she plays well enough to entertain the masses, and she apparently looks good enough to carry the cretin vote, but in the end, she can't hold a candle to hundreds, if not thousands, of less "exciting", but far more satisfying, pianists.

Kind of like a very young wine - it's intoxicating, but it's more likely to make you spew purple chunks than enhance the subtle flavors of a gourmet dinner. wink
_________________________
99% of what I produce at the piano is simply noise, but that other 1%? That's music.

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#1535132 - 10/14/10 04:39 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Andromaque]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Victor, I am not exactly a prude, but gosh.. you have made that comment ad nauseam here and elsewhere... We get it.. It is just that this is not the pilots' lounge, you know!


Haha ok sorry smile
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1535144 - 10/14/10 05:13 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1250
Loc:
Originally Posted By: Bech
Well...I started this and it went about as I expected.

How she looks, she's not Horowitz or Argerich, etc. She puts herself before the music, etc.

One question:

Can she play the piano well?

Bech




for a concert pianist, i d say she s average

compared to me she s piano goddess

compared to horowitz she s XXXX

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#1535249 - 10/14/10 09:50 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Bech


One question:

Can she play the piano well?

Bech



Why don't you answer your own question? Playing well (ie, being a good pianist) and being an artist, musician are two very different things.

People need to start thinking a little more critically, and stop accepting everything as 'good'. Not everything is good. So many people today completely miss what art is about.. that age died with the old masters. Pianists these days usually have great technique and nothing to say. How is that worth it? (I'm not particularly talking only about LA). Of course she is good, but these is so much more to music than just being "good"!
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1535256 - 10/14/10 09:54 AM Re: Lola Astanova [Re: Bech]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1250
Loc:
Or maybe they are taught what to say and how to say it and are wary of putting across their own message!

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