Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner At what point do you NEED a *real* piano?

Yesterday I played that $6000 Roland V-piano in a store. It was the nicest electronic instrument I've tried. The Yamaha upright piano next to it, for the same price, was about twenty times better.

Psychology is a very srange beast isnt it?

A week or so ago I would have said without hesitation that I had no problems whatsoever with our Roland. It was doing me fine playing various Chopin, Debussy and rare moments of Rachmaninov - the sound is still nice and all in all its not a bad instrument at all.

However, a seed of doubt has been planted... then I tackled some other pieces I havent looked at for a while, and I played a piano for a bit earlier (with a critical mind focused on touch rather than sound) this week while waiting for daughters lesson.

That, together with the widespread (and *almost* universal) condemnation on this forum from folks considerably more experienced in such matters than I am...

...and now I'm convinced that our Piano is woefully inadequate.

(Forgive me for cursing you all for helping raise my awareness of the issue! - I now have a b*tch of a 'consumer wanting itch' that isnt going to be scratched for a while)

Been playing on the Kawai CA111 for 2 years now, and play about 1-2 times on a Bosendorfer grand and Schimmel upright per month, and have had no trouble switching. Sure you have to get used to it the first 10-20min, but after that, no problem at all.

To join in the fray, as I wrote on another post, I bought my 'first' piano a few months ago, which is a DP, simply because I would only be able to play in my apartment using headphones (unless I never play above mp, which would cause havoc with my technique). Until I started looking around for one to buy, I'd never played on a DP; instead I was doing my 'practice' on any old piano I had access to, in church halls, old stately homes, school gyms, whatever - plus occasional forays on decent concert grands which I hired for a couple of hours. I can safely say that my new DP (V-Piano) gives me all the touch sensitivity, tonal control, pedal effects and unlimited power that I associate with well-regulated concert grands, and vastly better than any acoustic upright I've ever played on. Certainly the action is the same as that of a concert grand, and once I've got my headphones on, I completely forget that the sound is produced electronically (I can even get the pedal 'thump' if I want, but I prefer to program it out - the V-Piano allows you to customize almost everything, including choosing several types of unequal temperaments which is a delight for Bach & Scarlatti).

Personally, I can't see any impediment for a complete beginner to learn on a high-end DP like the V-Piano exclusively - as long as the volume control is set at the proper level and never changed for convenience, whether using headphones or speakers: I'd say that if 'noise' is a problem, use headphones but never ever lower the volume control. I learnt to play on a very light-actioned Yamaha upright when I was 10, and recently when I visited my mom, had the opportunity to play it again: the action is completely different to any acoustic grand, and far too light (great for octave glissandi, should I play the Waldstein or Paganini Variations). I'd say that anyone learning on such an instrument would have difficulty transitioning to a grand - I certainly remember my Grade exams which were conducted mostly on baby grands - I never did myself justice (well, that was my excuse....).

BTW, the V-Piano is the only DP I know with modelling technology as opposed to sampling, so in theory has infinite gradations of tone and volume, just like on an acoustic. With most other DPs I tried, I definitely felt that I wasn't in complete control of the sound.

Went on an exploratory mission round a couple of piano shops this weekend and I've reached a couple of conclusions:

1) There is no question - our current piano is inadequate.
2) After playing a range of pianos, (upright and b.grand) - I spent less than 10 seconds on the best digitals (including the Roland V) before dismissing them completely...
3) I almost liked the Yamaha U3s (plenty of second had ones around AU$5k)
- but -
4) The Piano I like most was a new "Bernstein" baby grand (sold as 'Hailun' in USA). The sound had clarity that was missing on the baby Kawai and Yamaha pianos and the action seemed nice light and fast....

Of course the downside is this is a $10k piano.. - and there are mild concerns over whether a Chinese manufactured instrument will hold its quality.

...and we really have to work out whether we want to dedicate that much floor space to a piano.

Still lots of thinking to be done!

Hmmm... why not go a little easy on your relationship with the wife; never mind the Chinese grand with the question mark for $10000 and get something like a Kawai K3 for something closer to $4000 or 4.5k.

Remind your wife of the costs associated with delinquent daughters; the piano may seem a lot cheaper all of a sudden.

If you look back a few months on the Digital forum, you will find posts from a forum-naive person who took Gyro's advice (pretty much what he just told you---twice) and badly regretted it.

If you're going to buy a grand piano, buy a good used one, not a questionable new one.

There is no reason to believe that a good quality Chinese piano will have any less longevity than the same quality piano from anywhere else. Longevity is more a function of maintenance than the piano for all but the very worst pianos.

Then again who (and which Chinese piano) has been around long enough to know?

I don't think the fact that it's Chinese has much to do with it. I think the fact that it's not yet a brand with a solid long-term track record is the problem.

And I just think buying a good used piano is almost always a better deal. You pay a high price for "new-ness".

I was fine with my digital right up to the day I sat down and said to myself "Wow, this thing really isn't doing justice to the music." I get to alternate between the digital and a Steinway, and up to that point, they both seemed fine, though not in the same ways, to me. From that point on, I always hear the inadequacy of the digital. The specific situation that caused the problem was Beethoven.

That might never happen to some people, and I guess that would be fine for them--why spend money when you can't tell the difference?

Hmmm....Speaking from my own experience: My parents and I worked out a deal that once I started seriously practicing more than 1 hour a day and really showed a love and an interest for piano, they would get me a grand piano (and they did). Before that I worked on a cheap, little spinnet but it worked good for me while I was working on easy little pedagogical pieces from like the Leila Fletcher/Nancy and Randal Faber method books. But now, I'm working on "big" pieces and practicing a ton so they realized that I'd just "outgrown" my old piano. Anyway, hope this helps.
--Milana

Actually further research on the $10k Grand has me swaying further in that direction. I havent yet found anyone who's said anything other than praise for them - and when I played the second hand Kawai of the same size/price it was like night and day between the 2, no contest whatsoever.

(Difference however between the second hand Kawai and a new one - or a Yamaha was not so great - apart from adding $3-5k to the price).

A second hand upright is definately still an option - I much prefered the Kawai U3 to the Kawai - but still a decent one of those seems to be over $5k every time - and thats still a lot of money for something thats at best 'not quite what you want' and possibly as far as 'a seriously butt-ugly piece of furniture'. I was stunned to see how much they charge for a new Yamaha U3! ($13k?!) - but fortunately there seem to be plenty of second hand ones around (I saw at least 3 or 4 this weekend and that was only in 2 shops).


Its all a lot of money whichever way we look at it - but if we get it right we buy something that lasts for 30 years and gets a lot of use and enjoyment - the cost is fairly negligable.