This has been difficult to find information about... I've been trying to find out if the Numa Nero has pedal support for una corda as well as damper. The reviews that I've seen show that it ships with a non-continuous pedal (perfect for una corda but unusable as a damper!). As a minimum, I need both and can do without sostenuto.

Does anyone have knowledge on the pedal and connection specs for this potentially amazing controller??

Thanks!
Curt

I have read the user manual and it says the pedals are configurable.
The sustain has a stereo plug and is configurable as continuous.

However I did not find details or continuous pedals offered by Fatar.

Peter

Thank you Peter! Curious if you could point me toward a link to download/read the manual?

This controller seems to be my EVERYTHING piano controller. Barring some construction issues that were reported early on, I think we finally have the controller we pianists have been waiting for.

Curt

http://www.numaworld.it/support.html
BTW, what I wrote above is given from memory. I am not free from erros. Please check it.

Best,

Peter

You have good memory! Both jacks appear to be fully programmable as either continuous or as a switch and the polarity is also settable.

Hmm, a worthy $1200 investment!!

Curt

hpeterh, the specs list MIDI Out, but not MIDI In. Isn't a complete MIDI loup necessary?

Sorry I dont have any of these keyboards.
I only readed the manuals.
I was interested in masterkeyboards and these dont need MIDI IN.
The Numapiano could need MIDI In, but I dont know if it has.

So far I have learned from other reviews, these keyboards are fine for POP Rock and Jazz but are not intended to simulate a classic grand and so I lost interest about them.

Peter

Understood.

There is no onboard sound on the Nero Numa so MIDI IN is pointless. I could see maybe a MIDI THRU for multi-board live rig setups, but I don't see that as the target demographic for this board. It's really obvious that it was made for piano players that use software sample libraries.

I'm grabbing one up tonite. I can comment back in a few days after I've had a day or two with it... if anyone is interested?

Curt

I'm curious how you came to this opinion? They are nothing more than an amazing wooden-keyed weighted keyboard action... what makes that more geared toward POP R&J and not classic grand? That's kinda like saying that a Steinway is more for POP rock because Billy Joel plays one and Van Cliburn was totally wrong in choosing one!

Curt

I have read users reviews on amazon and some musicstores and else, mostly in german language. I can impossibly give links to those all.

The other point is technical: The numa actions have their sensors connected to the key, not to the hammer. Some users report that the key must be released very much, before it is ready to play the next note. This makes it physically impossible to play pian(issim)o repetitions or thrills as it is sometimes required in classical repertoire.
I had never the possibility to try it myself, so be aware that is pure theory, but I have some experiences with other older keyboards.

Finally, the Fatar masterkeyboards have a special organ mode. So far I understand it, this means that the velocity is fixed and NoteOn/NoteOff is solely triggered by the upper (release) sensor. That is, how I understand it, I cannot swear it.
This feature is unique and probably most welcome for the band-keyboarder, but useless for a solo pianist.

All this said, this is speculation, I never could try it. If I get the chance to try it, then I will surely try it.

Best,

Peter

Actually, similar functionality is activated when using the MP6's tonewheel organ simulation.

</offtopic>

Cheers,
James
x

Good to know.
I think, this is On Topic very much.
Thanks.

Peter

I got my NUMA today and while overall it is just what I've been looking for in a controller (there are two keys that are slightly off-level and almost touch each other), I'm afraid I may have to return it for the reason Peter noted here. I cannot find a continuous pedal that is compatible with this board. WHY do they make a keyboard that so closely emulates an acoustic grand and then give you a momentary sustain pedal??? WHY?

I've contacted Studiologic and hope to hear from them soon but in the meantime, has anyone had any success finding a continuous pedal that works with Studiologic (NUMA) boards?

TIA,
Curt

What about these?

I think you need the VFP 3-D.
http://www.fatar.com/pages/VFP3.htm

I have however, never seen these offered in a shop.

Possibly the Roland RPU-3 works.
http://www.rolandmusik.de/produkte/RPU-3/index.php

At least the plugs should fit in and somebody with basic electronic skills should be able to open the pedal and modify it for the NUMA Nero.

I personally however would not be reluctant to get the stand and pedal unit for the Kawai ES6. I love the design.
http://www.kawai.de/es6_de.htm
I am really shure, I could make this work, but I am a hard core modder ;-)





Peter

That's the first place I went looking for pedals... NONE of them are continuous - or appear to be based on their description). The NUMA ships with the VFP-1 (which is useless) and the description of the other two pedals there is the same.

I seem to remember having a pedal (non-Roland) a while back that had a continuous/momentary switch on the bottom... but I think I must have eBay'd that thing when I "went Roland"...

Curt

You think that their term "potentiometer control" is the same as continuous, hmm? That does sound promising...



Modify it HOW? Replace the switch with a pot?

I think Fatar doesnt use the word "Continuous" they use the word "dynamic" instead.

They have continuous pedals I have seen it on a page that offered fatar replacement and DIY parts. (I dont have a link)

For the Roland pedal: I think there is a potentiometer inside and no active parts. This is the case for most continuous pedals. The sustain is continuous. It can be seen, because there is a stereo TRS connector and I know it from the Rolad FP7F description.

The "cold" tap should be connected with the sleeve and the cable screening and with frame ground of the keyboard.
The "Hot" tap might be connected with tip or ring.
and the slider tap of the potentiometer vice versa.

If "Hot","Slider" and "Cold" are resoldered to fit, this /should/ work. There is however no warranty. If I had the parts and could measure them, then I could say it for sure.

The middle and left pedal are switches and dont care because the NUMA is configurable.

Edit:
Look here: http://www.rolandmusik.de/produkte/RPU-3/images/RPU-3_1-big.jpg

It seems that all three pedals are continuous.

Edit again:
I know from various Fatar sites that they use potentiometers.
There is the other possibility to use LED's and photo resistors. I do however not believe, Roland uses these, else they would advertise the pedal as "Optical".



Peter

Another option would be the CME GPP3:
http://www.cme-pro.com/products-list/product-gpp.html

It can be seen in use here:

So far I know it is not longer produced, but still in stock.
A lot of people complain about firmware problems and bad quality control, but the design is very sturdy and those that got a good unit are happy with it.
Because it has USB and MIDI it works with any Masterkeyboard.

Peter

Thanks for all the options Peter! I remember all of the quality issues with this CME pedal. I also remember Garritan was going to offer this pedal at a discount for people that bought his Garritan Steinway and then the offer just evaporated at the same time the pedal was discontinued!

FATAR/Studiologic really came up short here. Why they advertise the perfect pedal (VFP3-D) and never make it available for sale is just bad and wrong.

Curt

I don't know much about MIDI, curt... but what about this?

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodped.htm

Give me the service manual of all this devices or at least reasonable and true technical short data and pin assignments and I can tell if it will work or how to make it work ;-)

Reasonably, this box costs money and a continuous pedal costs money and the NUMA obviously has a continuous pedal input and this box has special requirements for power over MIDI and is reported not to work with the NUMA NANO, I expect more technical problems to be created than to be solved.

Of course if a keyboard has no (proportional) pedal input then this should be the solution.....

See here:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=94

It seems there are fatar fedals out that are continuous but are not advertised as such, because the dealers and advertising writers dont understand the technics.

Why dont they publish a rudimentary but correct diagramm and pin assignments? That would tell all.

Possibly this helps:

Google search fatar vfp3 d

This is the VFP3 2D inside:


Found here:
http://www.doepfer.de/we.htm

Possibly they can deliver it?
I bet the roland pedal has the same interior but possibly 3 potis...

I did a little bit research.

The Numa Nero permits only 2 pedals. It has only 2 plugs for pedals. That is what most people report.

You already have one nonproportional pedal. So you need a second proportional single pedal and mount both on a board.

Either a single Roland pedal or a Yamaha pedal should work. So the problem is which of them works....

I appreciate all of your research! But I sent back the NUMA. The action was just too synth-like for me. Very heavy and the key would actually push your finger back up! VERY fast rise on the keys... seemed very unnatural to me.

Thanks again!

Curt

Hello,

if you still have it: Is it possible to play repetitions without releasing the key fully? Say, with 50% or 30% releases?

Would be interested to know that.

Peter

I did that test when I had it, actually!! And no, it doesn't pass. A return to almost full was required before another note would be sounded.

Curt

Thank you very much!
I had read this quite often, but never got confirmation.
This does probably not matter much in pop or jazz, but I dont think it is a good behavior for romantic and some classical piano solo pieces.

Might be, a skilled pianist with strong fingers can overcome this problem, but my fingers cannot...
Best

Peter

Going onwards with the pedal research, what are the advantages of a continuous pedal?

If you look to the Youtube video that I posted above, it is explained and demonstrated there.

Strat,

Half-pedaling is SOOOO important to controlling resonance. "Fanning" the pedal to control resonance is a critical technique in learning/playing an acoustic piano. There is a very common story that Chopin would require his students to sit on the floor and watch his feet during their lesson to best learn the importance of proper pedaling.

With momentary switches, this is impossible. Pumping a pedal of this type results in ALL of your resonating tones to just STOP when all you want to do is tame them a bit.

I won't play a DP/library that doesn't have this functionality.
Curt

So does this have to be built within the DP, the pedal, or both?

Both.
There is a variable resistor in the pedal that generates a variable voltage basing on pressure or depth. This voltage is measured by the CPU in the piano and converted into sustain events.
The sound generator in the piano must be capable to generate variable resonances and sustain durations from these events.

Thats very short and simplified, but it is all you need to know as a player.

Peter

How can I know which ones would support this feature? I'm assuming the Numa Nero already does, right?

Here are some interesting items I found. Is it possible to tell me which one would support this feature based on what's mentioned here?

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Studiologic-Dual-PianoStyle-Sustain-Pedal?sku=485834

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/p...ador?sku=422803

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/p...rity?sku=485835

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/p...2000?sku=422802

And I also found this image of a Nord pedal. Wonder if it'd be possible to buy separately and/or if it supports this feature.

None of these is continuous.
Almost ever /one/ continuous pedal needs 3 kontakts.
The other point is, continuous pedals are proprietary.
So these are not offered for common usage.
Without technical understanding and skills and measurement tools it is not possible to connect a third party continuous pedal.

The problem is, there are 3 possibilities to connect 3 wires to the stereo plug, but there is only one possibility to connect a switch to a Mono plug.
The other problem is the value of the resistor but that is not very critical, values from 1k to 20k should work with any normal Microprocessor ADC input.

Mostly one continuous pedal has one stereo plug.
Switch pedals mostly have Mono plugs.
If there is mentioned "Normal open/closed", "Open/Closed at Rest" "Switch" then it is not a continuous pedal.

Peter

P.S:

Maybe the dealers dont offer the continuous Fatar pedals because they have too much trouble, returns and warranty cases with them. When it is without care plugged into a non compatible device, the resistor or -in the worst case- the device itself can burn due to shortage.

I've just ordered the VFP3-D by Fatar.



I couldn't find all the information I needed, in particular about the number of wires and the connectors type. Just hope it works properly with my keyboard. Or, at least, I will be able to modify it.

Does anybody know if the Yamaha FC3 pedal is supported by the Nero?

I've now ordered the Roland RPU-3 unit. I'll post an update when I tested it on my NUMA Nero.

How long will it take for you to get it, nielow?

Strat: I've ordered it at http://www.bauer-music.de/, they appearently have them in stock, so I hopefully will receive it today or tomorrow.

Edit: Pedal arrived just now. Will test it in a few hours.

Yay.

Roland RPU-3 works perfectly with the Numa Nero. Remind that you can only hook up 2 pedals to the numa.

I'm guessing it's only an on/off switch so it doesn't allow for half-pedaling right?

Thanks for giving us back some feedback. I don't use the left pedal much, but it'd be nice to have access to it if/when I need it.

No, the Roland RPU-3 indeed has 3 continous pedals. I have now hooked up 2 of then to my Numa and can control the sustain of my GEM RP-X with the right pedal in a very realistic way. This is so much better than with my old on-off pedal.

Regarding the above, what is the likelihood of the Roland RPU-3 functioning correctly with my GEM PRP-700.

All the pedals on the RPU-3 are dynamic, but I think only the damper socket on the PRP-700 is equipped for a dynamic pedal. So, what would happen if the other two slots on the PRP were just simple TS slots? Would the left and centre pedals just serve as basic switches, or maybe just not work at all? And would there be any potential for damage either to the pedal unit, or worse still the piano, if I tried it.