James does the MP10 have a CP80 ?

Ugh. One of those compromises that has become a necessity in all its inharmonic inglory.

You mean does it have an EP-308, surely?

No, the MP10's EP section just features tines, reeds, clavs, and a 'modern' sound which may or may not be a DX7.
There are no electric grand sounds - Yamaha, Kawai, or otherwise.

Cheers,
James
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Here's a pianoworld EP308/CP80 thread:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1250324/KAWAI%20EP-308,%20Yamaha%20CP-70.html

I think that's a great idea. Go for it, James!

The MP10 has a similar minimalist design bend as the CP1 with a few more features. Even though it is slated to compete with the CP5, I am considering dumping my CP1 for the MP10.

I would like to hear more EP samples because those midi samples did not seem up to par with the CP1. That could just be the playing and the limited sample set.

Everyone keeps talking about the Yamaha GUI being difficult. I wonder if people who say that are basing it on their experience with the CP5. The CP5 GUI is a mess. The CP1 couldn't be more simple or direct. I would say the CP1 has a far simpler and more direct approach than just about any stage DP out there.

Hey, the CP80 on the CP1 sounds gloriously inharmonic and I love it... I just haven't found a use for it.

Just listened to the EPs again through headphones. The underlying tone of the EPs sounnd pretty good but, it is really hard to tell with the way it is played in those samples. I love my CP1 because when you dig into the EPs you really hear all of the grit and subtlties that went into the samples. With the way the MP10 samples are played there is very littel opportunity to hear any of that. I need to get my hands on the MP10 or hear some live playing samples.

Yes, I was thinking about the CP5 and CP50. I wouldn't want to have to spend $5k to get a usable layout!

I got lucky and bought mine new for significatly less. The CP5 immediately turned me off but the CP1 was exactly the opposite. The simplicity of it is what appealed to me... and the EP section on the CP1 is a totally different beast.

Perhaps it was already mentioned, but there was a review of the MP6 in the German Keyboards. It says exactly......nothing !

I never understand these reviews. They simply list all the specifications wit some chit-chat around the technical details and that's it. No personal impression of the sound quality , or any other part of the instrument other than some general remarks. Oh, and all is great of course , good value for money, bla bla bla. I hoped it would reveal something useful but it didn't. Let's wait until some pro get's his hands on a unit and can tell the real pro's and con's from his own experience...

I don't think this sentinent is specific to the British; for example, I come from Hungary (Europe), and feel exactly the same way.

USB recorded samples of live playing do not (yet) sound as high-end as the sound of actually playing an MP10 (given the implementation of USB recording is identical to the CA93 with firmware v1.07), so I guess only getting your hands on the MP10 will give you a real sound experience.

I was thinking more of studio recording, but it would probably be wise to get my hands on one first anyway.

I'm not aware of the issue you are referring to. Is the USB recording using a low bitrate or something?

CP80 is unharmonic ? Geeze a CP80 helped pay for my first house ! Back then all we had onstage for piano was a CP80 or a DX7 ...that was it ! I love the CP80 ...I rue the day I sold mine !

Never played an orignal CP80, but the CP80 on the C1 is fantastic and very easily adjusted to suit your taste. I would be interested to know how someone like you who once loved the CP80 feels about the CP80 on the C1 (not the C5).

I played a CP80 for a London stage show in 1983/84; it was wonderful. The band were positioned on a moving part of the stage set at second-storey height. Every time the set moved, everything would lurch and shake, and it was a challenge not to suddenly play everything a few semitones sharp or flat. The CP80 was chosen for weight and "ease" of installation. It was perfect for the style of music we were playing.

Now, I'm not sure I need to be able to reproduce that sound again. However, it is certainly a distinctive sound.

.

I love it ! It one of my favorite CP1 patches. The band has a song that starts with just vocals and a CP80 ...always a crowd favorite. Back in the day I used to play it on a real CP80 but the CP1 does the job these days. DX7 has been replaced as well on stage. Things change but I'd love a CP80m if I could find one in excellent condition.

Assuming that the MP10 USB recording implementation is identical: my CA93 can do either MP3 or WAV direct USB recording, but the point is that in it's current state it results in a relatively low-volume 16-bit file, as there's no mastering compressor/limiter used. This doesn't give a real impression of the actual sound quality (also I was told that it is not a purely digital recording, i.e. not before the DAC).

Playing back over headphones after using the internal track recorder of my CA93 is way superior in quality! Luckily, this is the exact same quality as playing live.

Who told you that?

Cheers,
James
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You have received a PM with the answer to this question.

The next question of course is if Kawai James is disputing it....

Well, when I put this same question to the CA93/CA63 product leader last year I was told that WAV/MP3 recording is purely digital - i.e. there is no digital-->analogue conversion.

I will need to clarify that this is still the case for the MP6/MP10, however given that we're using the same codec, I cannot see why this functionality would change.

Cheers,
James
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I don't know the right answer but using common sense it must be this way. Otherwise the sound would go though the DAC, and then for being recorded digitally at this point, would have to pass through an ADC again to be returned to the digital domain. Two unnecessary steps that can be avoided if the sound is captured when it is still digital and directly dumped to a file. Much easier to design it this way.

Even more, I am not sure why a DP has to have an ADC. Only would be needed for capturing an analog line-in and storing it on a device. Not sure if DPs with line-in (as the MP10) have to do that.

Given the positive response of KawaiJames, I would suggest to now focus on the part of my post which was not placed in parentheses: using common sense, this would imply a firmware update that, next to users, would also enable Kawai to publish highest-quality digital USB-recordings, without having to resort to external recording equipment.

Well, the quality of the recording actually isn't that bad. I always record in WAV, because I regard the MP3 encoder within the CA63 to be of best medium quality. You can hear artifact in ppp passages. This is not the case with WAV recording, you can then, after some volume adjustment, encode in MP3.

If I owned Kawai I'd do one thing at this stage.

Get a proper piano player, record them through the line out of both the MP6 and MP10 at 24bit through an adult audio interface (using decent quality uncompressed files) Record some proper world class demo's and post them on their website. Include GP samples, their jazz and mellow pianos with suitable musicians (and I'm not talking half wit german presenter/keyboardist). Then get some 'synth' types to play some of the synth side of the keyboard.

Roland's FP7F presentation is rubbish. I don't want expensive panning camera shots of a woman sitting at the piano with the wind in her hair.. This is our money we're spending and we don't want marketed production shots to confuse our purchases. If Roland aren't honest enough to present the real product to us then I'd like to think that Kawai would have the intelligence to put themselves in a better position than getting some cheesemeister to play crumby passages over an 80's drum beat. We're not idiots...

The forum members here could do a better job of this stuff. What's the pay???

I think I've already posted this question in another thread, but don't recall getting any info from it. So here again:

Both the MP6/10 and Roland NX/FP7F have Ivory touch keytops. Is there a large difference between the Kawai version of 'Ivory' touch and the Roland implementation. The RD700GX was famous on some threads for it's degrading Ivory keys and in a test they were called slippery (while they shouldn't be, exactly because of the Ivory touch).

Are the Kawai keys also susceptible to dirt/ liquids and are the new Roland keys less susceptible than the previous PHA-II with Ivory tops ?

I think it's good to know if either Roland or Kawai had done a better job in this respect.

Another Question; I was listening through some of the demo MP3's on the Kawai website, but was very annoyed by the fact that all the transients we're cut-off the notes. "zip. zip , zip" on each note's start, as if there was an extremely short fade-in, or noise-gate active. I assume this is a fault of the MP3 encoding "quality" and not in the actual recording (I hope!)

Are there some higher quality recordings around (not MP3 rubbish, but proper AIFF / WAV files or very high bit rate AAC's ?)

Thanks for any links

J