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#1547029 - 10/30/10 03:37 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
hannibal2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 100
Loc: Budapest, Hungary, EU
Hello All

Gents, please forgive me but I was unable to stand the templation in the form of a Yamaha CP33 Stage Piano...
I went back to the Kawai store for the third time asking about the deadlines for MP6 and such, then played the CN33 again with my syster who advised to have a look at the yamahas on another store not too far from there. As she is a pro jazz pianist holds a university degree in classical piano and singing, and has a good skills in convincing others smile I said "Well OK, why not? I can still buy the CN33 on Monday as well no problem."

First I was not even interested in the CP33 because on paper it was supposed to be worse and an older model. (64 polyphony and alike)


But then, God! What a piece of rock solid steel! What a fantastic faithful and realistic AP sound! What a keybed (altough CN33 action is also very very cool!)

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1546687/Re:%20Yamaha%20P-155%20or%20the%20CP33?.html#Post1546687

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1547013/Re:%20Yamaha%20P-155%20or%20the%20CP33?.html#Post1547013

Still I will keep an eye on the Kawai world, and wil definitely take the MP6 for a test drive (in the store) just because I think it will be another masterpiece, just as the Yamaha CP33.

Have a good time with your pianos whatever brand it is of!

Cheers and have a nice weekend!

/z
_________________________
Yamaha CP33, Roland XP10, Fatar SL610

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#1547064 - 10/30/10 04:43 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hpeterh]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2361
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: hpeterh

my Version is 1.13.



Very strange, the version listed on my CN33 is also 1.13! According to the download site this does not exist (for the CN33).

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#1547520 - 10/31/10 08:54 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
Ovidiu M Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 196
Loc: Romania
Hi! I have one simple question. In the 36 sounds of CN33 is it included the classical guitar sound? Im an ex guitarist and i would like to have it. Thank you!

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#1547730 - 10/31/10 03:31 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Ovidiu M]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2361
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Ovidiu M
Hi! I have one simple question. In the 36 sounds of CN33 is it included the classical guitar sound? Im an ex guitarist and i would like to have it. Thank you!


No.

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#1547734 - 10/31/10 03:38 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: spanishbuddha]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: hpeterh

my Version is 1.13.



Very strange, the version listed on my CN33 is also 1.13! According to the download site this does not exist (for the CN33).


Only the updates are online, but not the first release.
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


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#1554567 - 11/09/10 08:18 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
Kaldanis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Scotland, UK
Sorry to bring back an older topic. I originally considered a Yamaha P155 but a few of the reviews put me off, so I began looking for other options. After reading around a bit the CN33 seems perfect in terms of features/quality/looks. (I was a bit put off by how the P155 looked). I'm going to try a second hand one tomorrow to see how it sounds, but I don't think it has all the original books etc. So I was hoping some people who owns it could answer these questions for me!

1. Is the String Resonance issue a real problem in all CN33s? I'm a complete beginner, so when I see it tomorrow I'm not even sure how to test for something like that or even know when I hear it.

2. I've read it has a few practice songs on it, does it come with a book of how to play the pre-programmed songs like other digital pianos? (such as the Casios and Yamahas i've looked at). I realise this isn't a huge problem if it doesn't, but it would be helpful for someone just starting out like me. smile

3. Are there any other probelms you've experienced with it that are big issues? Do you still recommend it?

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#1554808 - 11/10/10 09:33 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Kawai James]
bluebilly Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 438
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Good morning chaps,

I was not aware of this CN33 software update, but will ask the engineers for more information about the alterations/fixes on Monday.

Cheers,
James
x

Hi James, Did you ever get an answer from the Kawai engineers?
-

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#1554841 - 11/10/10 10:17 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Kaldanis]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Kaldanis,

With regards to your queries:

1. The String Resonance issue reported above has been confirmed by my engineering colleagues. I gather that a software update fix has already been prepared and is currently in beta testing.

2. Notated scores for the built-in lessons are not included with Kawai instruments. However, these are popular, standard materials that can be purchased from most music shops without too much difficulty.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1554845 - 11/10/10 10:21 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: bluebilly]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
bluebilly, I did indeed check with the engineering chaps, and recall that the update resolves three issues. Unfortunately I cannot clearly remember what they were (!). I'll have to re-check my emails at the office tomorrow (actually today now...)

As noted above however, the String Resonance issue reported above has been resolved internally, and I expect a software update will be made publicly available in the not too distant future. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1554900 - 11/10/10 12:08 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Kawai James]
Kaldanis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Scotland, UK
Thank you for the reply James. I didn't realise the software could be updated on the piano! That clears up most of my doubts.

Today, I got the chance to play the CN33 at a local piano dealer. He let me compare it to the other digital pianos and one acoustic in the room. For sound, the CN33 was only beaten by a Roland digital grand piano which cost about 8 times the amount of the CN33. I really love the Kawai! Even though I have no experience, I compared the key actions and I really couldn't feel any difference between the CN33 and the really expensive Roland. I also love how it looks, so I'll most likely be buying it. smile

The acoustic in the room was an expensive Steinway. It was better than all the digitals but it didn't seem like a fair comparison!

The only problem I noticed was that one of the keys made a 'clicking' noise when released, but it's probably just that display model.

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#1554928 - 11/10/10 01:14 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Kaldanis]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2361
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kaldanis

The only problem I noticed was that one of the keys made a 'clicking' noise when released, but it's probably just that display model.


None of the keys on my CN33 make a clicking noise.

The song list is here.

I did notice that when I connect a laptop's audio out to the line in, in order to merge a software piano sound with the CN33 internal sounds, there is a hum. Someone mentioned a Behringer hum destroyer as the solution. In the end I no longer do this anyway, as much like the CA63 settings thread I found a really good sound by overlaying proportions of two different internal piano sounds.

I don't have any other issues with my CN33.


Edited by spanishbuddha (11/10/10 01:15 PM)

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#1554962 - 11/10/10 02:26 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: spanishbuddha]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 132
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
None of the keys on my CN33 make a clicking noise.

I have also no clicking noise on our CN33.

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
I did notice that when I connect a laptop's audio out to the line in, in order to merge a software piano sound with the CN33 internal sounds, there is a hum. Someone mentioned a Behringer hum destroyer as the solution.

Probably that was me. I bought and mentioned a Behringer hum destroyer as solution to that problem.

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
In the end I no longer do this anyway,

Same here. I stopped using software pianos completely. To much hassle for no real improvement. And the touch with the internal sound is still the best. I don't like the lag of software pianos.

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
as much like the CA63 settings thread I found a really good sound by overlaying proportions of two different internal piano sounds.

Can you tell us, what pianos are you overlaying and how is your slider setting? I usually use either Concert Grand 1 or Mellow Grand 1 alone.

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#1554973 - 11/10/10 02:45 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2361
Loc: UK
Hi Mawima

Following mucci's lead on the CA63 I played around with Pianoteq. I don't like the sound of Pianoteq alone - any of the 4 groups of pianos, but I was able to get a sound I liked from K1 close mic (AFAIR) with some modified hammer, eq, velocity, others, mixed on top of the CN33 Mellow Grand 1. I didn't have a problem with delay but set the buffer setting quite low, and have a decent laptop. I ended up with a sound I quite liked, but also especially the extra resonances it provided.

I was about to purchase a hum destroyer, but experimented a bit more with using the CN33 internal sounds overlay. One sound that was similar to the Pianoteq overlay was Mellow Grand1, Concert Grand 2, (3-1) about 70-30%. It doesn't beat the Pianoteq resonances though. Of course your taste will be different from mine and I'm sure your tone discrimination is better.

As you say the software piano is too much hassle for not so much improvement, except the resonances. I could also get better pp control, but I was cheating with the velocity adjustment on Pianoteq, and am improving that area of my playing as I learn.

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#1555371 - 11/11/10 03:49 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned

What's a hum destroyer?

Did your elimination of the ho hum sound on the CN33 through use of pianoteq precipitate your need for this hum destroyer?

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#1555373 - 11/11/10 03:57 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: theJourney]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: theJourney

What's a hum destroyer?


There is no such thing as a device that can destroy hum without modifying the sound.

"Hum destroyer" is Behringers marketing blurb.

Technically it is an isolation transformer and it does not destroy hum, it prevents hum.

Bad advertising but good and affordable product....

Peter
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


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#1555380 - 11/11/10 04:35 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Here is a picture of a real cheap one from Amazon ($5.99):




http://www.amazon.com/GSI-GGLI2-Ground-L...8032&sr=1-9

I also have a similar one for my Netbook connection to the DP, and it eliminates any hum very efficently!
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1555387 - 11/11/10 04:56 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: theJourney]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: theJourney
...ho hum sound on the CN33...


Please stop trolling.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1555391 - 11/11/10 05:17 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: theJourney
...ho hum sound on the CN33...


Please stop trolling.


I am confused by your continuous personal attacks.
It would be better if we all stuck to the actual content and topic of the posts rather than trying to re-direct discussion to the posters themselves.

Did you bother to read the actual post contained in this thread where a CN33 owner is experimenting with external software in search of improvement of the onboard sound of their dp?

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Hi Mawima

Following mucci's lead on the CA63 I played around with Pianoteq...I was able to get a sound I liked from K1 close mic (AFAIR) with some modified hammer, eq, velocity, others, mixed on top of the CN33 Mellow Grand 1. I didn't have a problem with delay but set the buffer setting quite low, and have a decent laptop. I ended up with a sound I quite liked, but also especially the extra resonances it provided.

I was about to purchase a hum destroyer, but experimented a bit more with using the CN33 internal sounds overlay. One sound that was similar to the Pianoteq overlay was Mellow Grand1, Concert Grand 2, (3-1) about 70-30%. It doesn't beat the Pianoteq resonances though. Of course your taste will be different from mine and I'm sure your tone discrimination is better.

As you say the software piano is too much hassle for not so much improvement, except the resonances. I could also get better pp control, but I was cheating with the velocity adjustment on Pianoteq, and am improving that area of my playing as I learn.


Many of us want to buy a digital piano that acts like as close as possible to an actual piano out of the box including the ability to play pp and with an expressive, organic and realistic sound -- without having to resort to complicated hacks of layering other sounds whether internally or through an external PC with piano modeling software.

I cannot think of another reason for wanting to do so rather than to listen to what some groups of owners are saying: that they find that their standard onboard sounds are lacking or do not provide the level of inspiration that they are seeking.

However, without resorting to attacking others because of their judgments, it should be possible for anyone here to make their own judgment of why the owners of some digital pianos seem to be obsessed with supplanting the sound of their (brand new) digital pianos while others see (hear) no need to do so.

Quote:
Definition
ho hum: lacking interest or inspiration; mediocre




Edited by theJourney (11/11/10 05:18 AM)

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#1555393 - 11/11/10 05:33 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
theJourney, I'm not attacking you personally - I don't even know you for goodness sake.

I'm simply asking you to stop your trolling behaviour. By this I am referring to your constant efforts to undermine Kawai instruments.

Thank you.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1555399 - 11/11/10 05:50 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: theJourney]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: theJourney
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: theJourney
...ho hum sound on the CN33...


Please stop trolling.


I am confused by your continuous personal attacks.
It would be better if we all stuck to the actual content and topic of the posts rather than trying to re-direct discussion to the posters themselves.


Maybe that's because you act like a troll? There are more than just James with that impression. Have you read the definition of trolling at Wikipedia?

I already mentioned, I love to exchange experiences with people on this forum, and this is what I really love about this great forum. If only everyone would rather be constructive and not (I have to repeat this) bash a special DP brand for whatever reason. And yes, that includes drawing unjustified consequences from selected posts and sell it to us as common agreements or even facts. You do this even with my posts. I would rather like to draw my own conclusions than you misinterpreting my comments.
If YOU don't like the sound of a specific DP that's fine, but please respect the individual experiences of many piano players here on this forum with their DPs they really own and use everyday!
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1555404 - 11/11/10 06:08 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Kawai James]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
theJourney, I'm not attacking you personally - I don't even know you for goodness sake.

I'm simply asking you to stop your trolling behaviour. By this I am referring to your constant efforts to undermine Kawai instruments.

Thank you.

James
x

You don't have to know someone personally to engage in personal attack behavior on a forum.

It is not my intention to undermine Kawai instruments, there is quite enough of that going on by the multiple posts from Kawai owners who consistently come across as less than satisfied and obsessively in search of an acceptable sound from their instruments but whom when made aware of their own behavior by others change their tune and resort to attempting to censure others and call them names.

If there were umpteen posts from Williams, or Roland or Yamaha owners fretting about the guitar tones, or puzzling over their piano tones or looking for anti hum devices to mask their ho hum sound workarounds, they would be fair game for discussion and witty syllogisms by others as well.

I wonder if the Kawai Kult here realizes the kind of disservice they are doing to the brand? I am not part of the Kult, but Kawai remains my preferred brand that I support with tough love and factual discussions rather than the demonstrations we witness from some others here of distress, denial and duress?

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#1555413 - 11/11/10 06:45 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: theJourney]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Originally Posted By: theJourney
It is not my intention to undermine Kawai instruments, there is quite enough of that going on by the multiple posts from Kawai owners who consistently come across as less than satisfied and obsessively in search of an acceptable sound from their instruments


That's your very own interpretation of what you read (based on your own strong opinion).

You could also interpret it in a completely different way (though I would not dare to declare this as the right interpretation - who am I?): Maybe Kawai buyers are very critical and want the highest possible keyboard touch and sound quality (while others are less ambitious so that Yamaha, Roland and Casio are just fine), and that's the reason why they chose a Kawai? They are very enthusiastic about their DP, and in an effort to get even better quality they investigate some effort in additional sound variations? I would by no means suggest that this is the right way to interpret, but it sounds similarly biased to what you state.

Originally Posted By: theJourney

or looking for anti hum devices to mask their ho hum sound


You know what you're talking about? That's a problem of the external audio device, not of the DP...

Originally Posted By: theJourney

I wonder if the Kawai Kult here


Hey, now we're even worshipping a Kawai cult? Is that the way you denigrate others who criticize you? Sounds like a former Amiga vs. Atari or (today) Apple vs. Pc war... I think we should be detached enough to keep those ridiculous accusations away from this forum.

And a last statement: If you don't like Kawai then just say it. It's ridiculous to start your posts always with "It is not my intention to undermine Kawai instruments..." when after that you start with an uncontrolled attack against Kawai. That keeps you noncredible.
_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1555418 - 11/11/10 07:02 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Bring it on!



James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1555423 - 11/11/10 07:13 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
mucci Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1070
Loc: Munich, Germany
Hehe, James!! The only true music computer with build in MIDI controller!! wink

_________________________
<~ don't test forever - play and enjoy! ~>

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#1555632 - 11/11/10 01:17 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2361
Loc: UK
In response to theJourney's posts (thanks for the interest theJourney) on my and others actions, I accept the sounds of the CN33 for the amount of money I paid for the instrument. I've previously stated I think it represents extraordinary value for its price. I was looking to see if for a further $100 investment in Pianoteq I could get that next leap or step up. I couldn't.

If I really wanted the best sound I would of course get a Grand acoustic but I really can't afford that. In fact at the time of my purchase I decided I could not afford a Roland HP307 or Kawai CA63 which are the next step in the sound and action from current DP's, IMHO.

So like so many other things in life there's a practical compromise for many of us.

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#1555763 - 11/11/10 04:57 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: spanishbuddha]
bluebilly Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 438
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha

So like so many other things in life there's a practical compromise for many of us.


+1

-

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#1557521 - 11/14/10 12:53 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Kawai James]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2361
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
bluebilly, I did indeed check with the engineering chaps, and recall that the update resolves three issues. Unfortunately I cannot clearly remember what they were (!). I'll have to re-check my emails at the office tomorrow (actually today now...)

As noted above however, the String Resonance issue reported above has been resolved internally, and I expect a software update will be made publicly available in the not too distant future. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Bump for KawaiJames as he arrives to work Monday in Tokyo smile

What your devoted fans would like to know is what's in the recent firmware update for the CN33 and when we can expect the latest string resonance improvement. Thank you.


Edited by spanishbuddha (11/14/10 01:53 PM)

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#1558015 - 11/15/10 01:37 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Thank you, however I work in Hamamatsu, not Tokyo. wink

Regarding the software update, I have recommended that it be made public available as soon as internal testing has been complete.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1560037 - 11/18/10 07:35 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9206
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello chaps,

Just a quick one to let you know that Kawai Europe have made the CN33 v1.21 software update available for public download.

http://kawai.de/downloads_en.htm

I hope it was worth the wait. wink

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1560040 - 11/18/10 07:40 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 132
Loc: Germany
Thank you, James, for the notification.

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