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Topic Options
#1560044 - 11/18/10 07:49 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
No problem.

Full credit to hannibal2 for reporting the String Resonance issue in the first place.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1560047 - 11/18/10 07:55 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Kawai James]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 132
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
No problem.

Full credit to hannibal2 for reporting the String Resonance issue in the first place.

Cheers,
James
x

I am going to test the new firmware today. I did not experience the problem with the String Resonance in my play as the pieces I play are still quite simple. But out of curiosity I tested the issue after hannibal2's post. The issue was discernible and I am curious, if the new firmware will change something. smile

So the CN33 is great anyway. But it is great to see Kawai fixing issues even if they are small and hardly discernible.


Edited by Mawima (11/18/10 08:12 AM)

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#1560067 - 11/18/10 08:31 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: UK
Thanks James! Will install it at the weekend.

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#1560298 - 11/18/10 04:36 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: spanishbuddha]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Thanks James! Will install it at the weekend.


Got home earlier than expected and installed the 1.21 firmware. It does indeed fix the string resonance shortcoming.

Thanks Kawai and hannibal2. I was initially sceptical about Kawai fixing this as it seems quite a minor imperfection, but then I'm still 'ear training' as part of the learn piano process.

BTW I think there's a small mistake in the readme for installation. The picture is correct for selecting boot/load from USB (piano2, organ, harps&mallets) but the description then is not.

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#1560310 - 11/18/10 05:01 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9064
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello spanishbuddha,

Glad to hear that the update was successful and resolved the String Resonance glitch.

Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
BTW I think there's a small mistake in the readme for installation. The picture is correct for selecting boot/load from USB (piano2, organ, harps&mallets) but the description then is not.


Do you mean the 'Checking the software version' part? If so, yes, I see that the illustration and explanation are inconsistent. I didn't prepare these update instructions, so will have to double check with the R&D chaps and perhaps send a revised instructions PDF to Europe.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1560316 - 11/18/10 05:06 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: Kawai James]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Do you mean the 'Checking the software version' part? If so, yes, I see that the illustration and explanation are inconsistent. I didn't prepare these update instructions, so will have to double check with the R&D chaps and perhaps send a revised instructions PDF to Europe.

Cheers,
James
x


Yes, that's the part I meant to say, sorry. Follow the pic and not the words.

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#1561365 - 11/20/10 05:27 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: spanishbuddha]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 433
Loc: England
-
I must confess I haven't noticed, or tried to notice, the resonance problem talked about so I'm reluctant to tamper with my piano software on the basis of..."if it ain't broke don't fix it". Anyway, I visited a piano store today and again played, Casio PX-330, Casio PX-730, Casio PX-830, Casio AP220, Casio AP440, Korg SP170, Roland HP-302, Roland FP7, Yamaha CLP 330, Yamaha CLP 340, the result, I can confirm that us Kawai CN-33 owners made the right choice of piano.
-

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#1561610 - 11/21/10 06:20 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: bluebilly]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 433
Loc: England
-
Contrary to my previous post, I took a deep breath, steeled myself, said short prayer and proceeded to update my piano software.....1.21 update installed sucessfully...now wiping sweat from my brow and pouring a stiff Scotch on the Rocks.

Thanks James.
-

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#1561615 - 11/21/10 06:38 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: bluebilly]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
-
Contrary to my previous post, I took a deep breath, steeled myself, said short prayer and proceeded to update my piano software.....1.21 update installed sucessfully...now wiping sweat from my brow and pouring a stiff Scotch on the Rocks.

Thanks James.
-


Do you notice the difference in your playing? I don't. My playing is not at an advanced level, err, yet.

But I notice the difference if I test for it though.


Edited by spanishbuddha (11/21/10 06:48 AM)

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#1562117 - 11/22/10 01:44 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: spanishbuddha]
bluebilly Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 433
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
-
Contrary to my previous post, I took a deep breath, steeled myself, said short prayer and proceeded to update my piano software.....1.21 update installed sucessfully...now wiping sweat from my brow and pouring a stiff Scotch on the Rocks.

Thanks James.
-


Do you notice the difference in your playing? I don't. My playing is not at an advanced level, err, yet.

But I notice the difference if I test for it though.

I haven't noticed any difference yet, but I'll spend some time listening today. The piano always sounded good to me.
-

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#1562869 - 11/23/10 10:51 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: bluebilly]
cunparis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Paris, France
Originally Posted By: bluebilly
-
Anyway, I visited a piano store today and again played, Casio PX-330, Casio PX-730, Casio PX-830, Casio AP220, Casio AP440, Korg SP170, Roland HP-302, Roland FP7, Yamaha CLP 330, Yamaha CLP 340, the result, I can confirm that us Kawai CN-33 owners made the right choice of piano.
-


I'm currently debating between the CN-33 & Yamaha CLP-340. Since you mention the 340, would you mind giving me a comparison of the two and why you feel the CN-33 is better?

I tried both in the store today for about 1 hour and I think the CN-33 has better action. There seems to be more resistance going down and less bounce on the way up. The yamaha keys seemed to thump up & down. I'm a beginner but been playing on a real piano for 6 months now so I don't really have any frame of reference for digital pianos.

I also felt the CN-33 sounded more like a real piano on the headphones. I took my sony studio monitors so they're decent headphones.

There are only two things I didn't like when playing the CN-33 and I didn't notice these with the Yamaha:

The attack sounds pretty sharp (hard). A bit aggressive. I'm not sure how else to describe it. I tried the variations but they seemed similar. I hope you know what I am talking about.

The second issue I had playing the CN-33 was that I found it hard to play medium volume. I try to play softly and often one note would come out way too strong. Is that due to me? Sometimes my left hand would play louder than my right, unintentionally. I didn't notice this playing the yamaha. And I stayed longer to investigate this issue.

These two are my only reservations about the CN-33. If it's just me and will take some getting used to then I'd like to get the CN-33.

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#1562880 - 11/23/10 11:11 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: cunparis]
AndyT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 120
Loc: Cambridge, UK
Originally Posted By: cunparis

The second issue I had playing the CN-33 was that I found it hard to play medium volume. I try to play softly and often one note would come out way too strong. Is that due to me? Sometimes my left hand would play louder than my right, unintentionally. I didn't notice this playing the yamaha. And I stayed longer to investigate this issue.


Did you try changing the touch sensitivity to heavy? I know a lot of people change this setting and find it to be an improvement on the CA63/93.

Personally, I'm not sure of the difference between turning down the volume and changing the touch sensitivity, but that might just be me.

Andy


Edited by AndyT (11/23/10 11:14 AM)

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#1562883 - 11/23/10 11:17 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: cunparis]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 132
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: cunparis

I also felt the CN-33 sounded more like a real piano on the headphones. I took my sony studio monitors so they're decent headphones.

There are only two things I didn't like when playing the CN-33 and I didn't notice these with the Yamaha:

The attack sounds pretty sharp (hard). A bit aggressive. I'm not sure how else to describe it. I tried the variations but they seemed similar. I hope you know what I am talking about.

The second issue I had playing the CN-33 was that I found it hard to play medium volume. I try to play softly and often one note would come out way too strong. Is that due to me? Sometimes my left hand would play louder than my right, unintentionally. I didn't notice this playing the yamaha. And I stayed longer to investigate this issue.

When we bought our CN33, we also compared it to the CLP-340. I agree with you on the general sound signature. For my taste, the CN33 sounds more like a real piano. But yes, the attack of the Grand Piano 1 is pretty sharp. Some describe it as metallic here in the forum. Some get used to it, others use the Mellow Piano 1 which barely has this metallic attack sound. If you don't like the Mellow Piano and really cannot stand the Concert Grand 1 as it is, you should check the CA63. There you would be able to tweak the sound with the virtual technician.

The second "issue" with the volume is something I suppose you will get used to. The CN33 enables you to play in a wide dynamic range. Your hands need to get accustomed to handle this.

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#1563046 - 11/23/10 05:34 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: UK
I have a CN33 and initially changed the touch velocity setting to heavy1. There are five settings: light2, light1, normal, heavy1, heavy2. After a few weeks I changed it back to normal because I suppose I had become used to the touch. I also play with the volume setting quite high, but don't play loudly, so that in this f or ff is just that, loud. In this way I can practise the range of the CN33 dynamics. I'm a beginner of just about one year so my experience of this may not be ideal to guide you.

Regarding the sound, I prefer an overlay of the mellow piano with one of the other more metallic grand pianos. Most of the time. Sometimes I like that sharp metallic sound depending on the music and my mood. ..and sometimes I just like that soft mellow piano.

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#1564960 - 11/27/10 03:51 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: hannibal2]
cunparis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Paris, France
Seems the enthusiasm for the Kawai has died down. I hope that people are still happy with their choice.

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#1564972 - 11/27/10 04:52 AM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: cunparis]
Upright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 132
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: cunparis
Seems the enthusiasm for the Kawai has died down. I hope that people are still happy with their choice.

We are very happy with our choice. I rather think, that people are simply playing piano.

Have you already decided and bought the CN33 or the CLP 340?

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#1565262 - 11/27/10 02:39 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: cunparis]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: cunparis
I tried both [CN33 & CLP340] in the store today for about 1 hour and I think the CN-33 has better action. There seems to be more resistance going down and less bounce on the way up. The yamaha keys seemed to thump up & down.
GH3: bouncier, harder at the extremes. Another poster who plays at a fairly high level and with whom I was PM'ing a few years ago during his auditioning of DP's - he chose a CLP280 - said the same thing. Others have posted about the bouncing of the GH3 and Roland's 3-sensor actions. The quieter and perhaps more natural feel of the RH action is characteristic of Kawai actions, according to posters.

IMO action is the most important consideration, because it can't be changed. You can change tone by using a software piano. As spanishbuddha's post shows, you can take the edge off the CN33's attack by layering it with the Mellow grand. Buddha also posted that the relative volume of the layered pianos can be chosen. He's taking advantage of the custom settings in TADutchman's thread for CA63/93 users. (The 33 doesn't have as many voices and, I think, the Virtual Technician feature in the 63/93 offers greater possiblities for customizing.) Worth looking at TAD's thread.

Ultimately no recorded piano will have all the richness and complexity of an acoustic; not the internal samples or software pianos. Galaxy II's Vienna Grand is my daily player. I like it very much - especially thru Sennheiser's HD650 'phones - but am always aware that I'm playing a recorded piano.

IMO if you must choose between tone and touch, go with touch.


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#1565299 - 11/27/10 03:27 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: cunparis]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2339
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: cunparis
Seems the enthusiasm for the Kawai has died down. I hope that people are still happy with their choice.



Yup, it's a great DP for the money, probably the best IMHO. Had it since early August and playing more than ever. I was (still am) a fan of the budget Casio PX330, but really the Casio seems like a toy compared to the Kawai, but then it costs quite a bit less.

What's your budget and where have you got to in your buying process? We can help if you have further questions about the CN33 but you have to decide what's best for you (of course).

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#1571406 - 12/06/10 03:56 PM Re: Kawai CN33 [Re: spanishbuddha]
cunparis Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Paris, France
Originally Posted By: spanishbuddha

What's your budget and where have you got to in your buying process? We can help if you have further questions about the CN33 but you have to decide what's best for you (of course).


I've got it narrowed down to the CN-33. Just have to decide if I want to buy locally or order it from Thomann. Leaning towards the latter to get the included bench and not have to mess with driving to the store (about 1 hour drive).

I've played it 3 different times and I really like it. I think I was just comparing it to the acoustic I play and it'll never be the same. But after a few days I'm sure I'll be used to the CN-33.

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