Yes Essbrace, you are totally right with your findings. Ultimately all of the non-SN pianos that came with the GX (Expressive, Superior, Ultimate Grands) are somehow (with the SN piano kit/ GXF) SN'd with (SN Grand piano 1, Grand piano 2, Grand piano3, respectively). SN Grand piano 4 I haven't quite figured out, maybe it is the RD600 grand that was SN'd. Note I mentioned SN Grand piano variants and not names like SN02 (which is Clear Grand, a variation of SN Grand piano 1). Very important because Roland took the 4 different SN Grand Pianos (from the SN AP piano kit) and made variations of them, to have 17 "different piano sounds".

I have a feeling that the GX(F) is probably the better of the two between the NX and GX(F). If you own an GX(F) like me, I really don't think the new PHIII action is enough to justify a $2,400.00 "upgrade". I have tweaked my SN Ep's to be good enough to live with and I instantly loved the SN AP's, so I came to the conclusion....save my money and stick it out with my GX(F). Maybe I'll really upgrade it with the RPU 3 pedal. Just gotta wait for that to be released.

I think that's very wise...the time to re-evaluate the Roland in my opinion is when they release a really new product (RD-800 say). I could be wrong, it could be that the NX has tonally quite different piano patches and then it could well be the right choice for some current GX owners. Time will tell.

Yeah, I've decided to cancel my NX order and just hang on to my GXF until Roland replaces the RD-700 series with something new altogether. I have the RPU-3 on back order, which I'm quite excited about!

Totally agree. I suffered from the 'Gotta have the latest tech now' syndrome, but once reality set in, and I spent more and more time playing Roland PHA III action pianos back and forth with my GXF, and the fact is, the NX isn't worth the $2400. I'm sure I'd like it better than my GXF-bigger screen, better action (possibly), more SN piano sounds-but not $2400 worth.

I just wanted to chime in here and say that the RD-700GX with the Supernatural piano expansion is absolutely fantastic for me. I somewhat wish I could've waited for the RD-700NX, but waiting forever without a stage piano forced me to buy once I saw the reviews on the SN pianos. I can't see myself upgrading for an extra sensor that gets me faster/easier repetition when I have virtually all of the playability that I need, so I really think this is it for a while. No regrets at all, and no real desire to "upgrade" other than my SN board.

Roland and Kawai seem to be at the top of their game product-wise with the new crop of stage/digital pianos at the moment. I would have no hesitation to recommend either the RD-700NX or the MP-10 if the CA-93 is anything like the MP-10.

These artificial pianos are getting pretty good these days, I must say.

That's encouraging!


Roland definitely. But Kawai and Yamaha are both playing the very short, highly processed loop sample game that I personally feel is a step backward in sampling technology.

Kawai keys may be really nice, but I never see any in the stores near me to try them out. And that sound issue pretty much puts the kibosh on me caring about their keys.

I'm primarily a sound guy, but key feel is very important to my wife, so we're always on the lookout for something that will satisfy us both.

I've sent you a PM with a link to a gmap of Kawai dealers in NJ.



I don't believe there is a sound issue with Kawai instruments, however I'm a player, not an engineer.

Cheers,
James
x

I'm not a kawai employee, just a fellow of DPs... I want to say that I don't like strong sentences "this is better than any others". It sounds childish (and pointless) to me.

Qbert, I fully agree! Same with the opposite, bashing a specific brand for whatever reason. It also sounds *what you said*.

Technically, Roland SN is the most advanced thing out there in hardware DPs. That's not my opinion, it's the result of many, many hours of testing.


I'm not "bashing" Kawai and Yamaha for their short loop samples. I'm just pointing out that they are too short, even shorter than what I've seen in older DPs. Which is likely one of the main reasons why so many people over on the CA93/CA63 custom settings thread are finding that layering two pianos improves the sound. mucci, even you layer Pianoteq on top of your CA63.

I want good sound from my DP without having to resort to such things.

@dewster
I like your test and appreciate the time you dedicate to this. I find them interesting but I can't consider them in absolute way. While your sentences pretend to derive from an absolute truth!
Sorry, it sounds so to me at least!

Loop times are easy to measure. There are fancier methods, but stereo VU meters and a stopwatch are all you need.

Short loops by very definition cannot realistically simulate multiple strings playing in unison (unless you play multiple, slightly detuned copies of the loop).

Looping is a huge turn-off for me because I've had the opportunity to hear so many otherwise fine piano sample sets butchered by it.

Well, the absolute main reason for using dual voice presets is the unique high-amplitude attack transient with improved dynamics (from pianissimo to fortissimo) which can be developed this way, i.e. it's all about generating new piano timbres, which can even sound like a completely different instrument / sampleset! As you know, the attack transient primarily determines human recognition of a specific piano timbre. Improved dynamics of the much lower-amplitude decay transient is a welcome positive side-effect, but not as spectacular. Thanks anyway.

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1489257.html#Post1489257

You might be totally correct from a technological standpoint but despite all the technology, many piano/keyboard players just don't like the resulting sound. I dumped my G8 with ARX2 because I could not stand the acoustic pianos and ARX2 EPs paled in comparison to the CP1. Of course, I just use my ears and am sure someone could show me that from a technological standpoint I am choosing the less advanced technology.

I am trying to decided between the new NX and the MP10. I went to GC yesterday to revist Rolands with the the GXF. To be honest, I didn't hear anything that made me want to reconsider Roland again.

Hear, hear! That's just what I do too.

Didn't know you already had a GXF Zac. I don't blame you for not wanting a $2400 upgrade. Definitely not worth it.

My own concern about the RD700NX is that you may be sacrificing quite a lot for the better action. No SRX slots - OK, these cards aren't stellar but they represent pretty good value for expanding the RD's sound palette. But more worryingly, no "Int/Ext" switch on the four zone sliders and buttons. I hope I'm wrong, but that suggests the RD's capabilities as a MIDI controller may have been "dumbed down" a bit. Won't know until we see the manual, of course. And no second MFX control by the look of it, either. As it stands, the action would have to be spectacularly better and the Supernatural EPs vastly improved for the NX to interest me, and that's even before I add an SN card to my GX.

I use my ears too, but they get a huge assist from my eyes. You guys should try it sometime before knocking it.

That is a completely different issue, and one that I respect.

Thanks James. I'll definitely check out Kawai offerings as soon as they reduce or eliminate looping.

No problem, pleasure to help.



Yes, I had a feeling you might say that. But, I'd still be very interested to hear your wife's opinion of Kawai's current digital pianos - as a piano player, indeed a piano teacher, I'm sure she would appreciate Kawai's realistic keyboard action technology.

Cheers,
James
x

hI ...to much to read.


Hows does the RD700NX compares to the V-piano
action?? some one has actually made the comparision?

I want one for my live performances.

During my daily piano playing, my ears are key and then I mainly need my eyes for sight-reading only (when not improvising).

Yes, right! And there is even more like in which location are you playing.

Yesterday I tried to somehow "enrich" the sound of our 12 year old Yamaha CLP at our church. I connected my Pianoteq Play (which I regularly use at home to beef up my CA63 piano sound) to the line-in of the piano and then played a little through the internal speakers: Definitely an improvement. But the church needs some extra power through our mixer and big speakers (its not a traditional church BTW, it's much more like a small concert hall but without a good acoustic), so I amped up the sound through the big loudspeakers. It sounded awful. I tried several settings and different EQ, reverb, whatever, but to no avail. Eventually I switched the Pianoteq sound off and everything was fine again. So I gave up. It seems like a realistic sound is not always fine for all situations, in this specific hall the very old internal Yamaha sound was just good enough, even better than a more realistic DP sound.

For the Dutch speaking Forum members. RD-700 NX Manual is online:
http://www.rolandce.com/nl/nl/producten/pianos/stage-pianos/rd-700nx/

Thanks! I looked through it but couldn't find any trace of a voice list. Must be rather preliminary.

Manual is online at Roland.com

Ah yes:

http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/om.cfm?PRODUCT=RD-700NX

Owner's Manual, Data List, and MIDI Implementation.

Thanks Dr P!

That's quite an interesting tone list inside the Data List.

The question is: how many of those sounds have Supernatural quality and how many are next to unusable?

Itseems as though my fear about MIDI control etc being dumbed down was groundless. That only leaves the lack of SRX slots as a "mark down" but since these cards are pretty limited, it's not a biggie - and the internal tone list has been substantially expanded.

However, as others have noted here, if you're already an GXF owner, you may still be wiser holding on for the next model.