Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps and more.

Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
101 registered (Alexander Borro, bananasushi, ando, 37 invisible), 1806 Guests and 10 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1546549 - 10/29/10 09:41 PM Accurate counting and Score analysis
101kiwi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 4
Loc: New Zealand

I'm hoping we have some experienced muso's on board that would be willing to give me some advice.

My question is - how do you (or should you) go about counting the beat in complex rhythms and such music as Hindemith or more contemporary composers write?

At the moment, this is how I currently count music - silently - when I'm reading or just learning new pieces.

I a work that's in 4/4, I would usually count - 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & , etc,. Now I come to a problem - Although I manage by micro analyzing the sixteenth notes (i.e. 1&2&3&4& 1&2&3&4& 1&2&3&4& 1&2&3&4&, etc,) I don't have a clue how to actually count these notes in when I'm faced with.

Say, for a very basic example, you've got a phrase (4/4) where there is a quarter note followed by a eighth note with a dot, o.k, then after the dot there's a sixteenth note, and after the sixteenth note there's two eight notes one of which is tied to another quarter note... do you count this differently from my 1&2& etc?

What I mean is, is there a specific way you need to count the 4, 8(.)16, 8 8_4?

I'm just after a method of counting that makes reading easy - i.e, you don't need to over-analyze each score... you can just, you know... count.

Let me know if this isn't clear enough...

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!

(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1546564 - 10/29/10 10:29 PM Re: Accurate counting and Score analysis [Re: 101kiwi]
Dror Perl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/10
Posts: 272
Loc: NY
If I understand correctly you are basically looking for a way to count 16th notes. If so, I know there's many different approaches but 2 I can think of is:

4/4 1 e & e 2 e & e 3 e & e 4 e & e

meaning divide each beat into 1 e & e

Another way would be to use a phrase such as Ta-Ka-Di-Mi (this specific one is coming from Indian music) and therefore in each 4/4 measure you'll have 4 TaKaDiMi's

I hope that this is what you r looking for.

let me know if its not.
Dror Perl. Pianist, Composer, Teacher.


Sheer Piano: The First Full Color Piano Music Books

#1546654 - 10/30/10 12:55 AM Re: Accurate counting and Score analysis [Re: Dror Perl]
101kiwi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 4
Loc: New Zealand
Hello and thank you for the fast reply!

Yes, that was what I was after - I just wanted to make sure was not counting incorrectly... I've always learned music more by "feel" and from listening to CD's but lately I've started to work harder on being more accurate to the score.

I think I'll go for the first approach - I've heard of the French way of counting - it seems a little vague, but I guess it would help clarify some rhythmic problems (esp. in jazz).

Now I'm wondering - how do you count 32nd notes and all those very rapid notes?

I usually just play them as fast as I can: at the expense of the true rhythm!

Anyway, your answer was very helpful, thanks a lot!
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!

#1546673 - 10/30/10 01:31 AM Re: Accurate counting and Score analysis [Re: 101kiwi]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2913
32nd notes are generally going to be too fast to count, when played at performance tempo.
If counting them in slow practice, I generally drop the organized groups of syllables and use something like da - da - da, na - na - na, or pa - pa - pa. Mainly, dividing beats into such small parts will actually make you lose track of your rhythm; the usual exception is when playing rhythms with dotted sixteenths, subdividing into 32nds to make them more accurate.
(I'm a piano teacher.)

#1546693 - 10/30/10 02:19 AM Re: Accurate counting and Score analysis [Re: david_a]
101kiwi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/08/10
Posts: 4
Loc: New Zealand
O.k, cool... I think that's what I've been doing too - just dividing them up into the main beat.
I find that staying in time on rhythms such as 5/4 and 7/8 is real hard at the moment - I guess I'll need to work harder!

Thanks for the reply
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!


Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad) Yamaha CP4 or CP40 Free Bag
Buy a CP4 or CP40 Get a Free Bag
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ads) PD - WNG - MH
Wessell Nickel & Gross
Ad (the Piano Store)
the Piano Store - Restored Steinway Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Need teachers opinion
by D1N
11/28/15 02:46 PM
Chickering grand; under-damper with multipart plate
by Craig Hair
11/28/15 02:41 PM
"Pianist" Digital Piano Guide 2016
by bennevis
11/28/15 02:35 PM
Baldwin Models not in Piano Buyer
by KurtZ
11/28/15 01:11 PM
Audio dropouts... Ok but, who is guilty in my system?
by stamkorg
11/28/15 11:46 AM
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
Forums Rules & Help
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Forum Stats
81,577 Registered Members
44 Forums
168,633 Topics
2,470,459 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |

copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission