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#1548475 - 11/01/10 02:36 PM TORN between P95 and CP33
Doomdog Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 19
I know almost everything already wink
The speakers, the GH vs GHS, the layers etc. etc.
I normally have the budget for P95 secured. I would have to stretch quite a lot for the CP33 (it's exactly double in price), but it's doable.
I am going to keep the DP for 10 years or until it breaks, whichever comes first.
I will never be able to test the GH action beforehand. Meanwhile, there's no bigger consensus here on PW or on the web at large, than "GH is better than GHS".
I'm planning to get serious with classical and finger training, after a long gap. In the meantime I have been fooling around within a blues/rock band.
I am thinking of holding the ordered P95 for a while and then selling it, waiting for NAMM and more money (without the stretching).

It's never been so much torture...

Sorry, venting over.

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#1548496 - 11/01/10 03:20 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
achat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 536
Loc: Rome, Italy
Doomdog,

the natural (Yamaha) contender to the P95 would be the P155, as Chris has pointed out many times on PW. The CP33 is an old model and is about 1K Euros or a bit less. And it is double price the P95 if you consider the additional price for the speakers.

BTW I have bought a P85 (essentially the same of the P95) as a complete beginner at the end of July, and after two months I am already wondering if to resell and buy an higher model like the P155.
I know it could sound crazy after 2 months of practice but already seems to me "too light"...

A.

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#1548554 - 11/01/10 04:32 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: achat]
hannibal2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 100
Loc: Budapest, Hungary, EU
Hello Doomdog

Check posts on CP33 ant follow ups.

CP33 is an older model than P95 or P155, but this does not matter as it is superior both in action and sound (forget spec-sheets and excel2excel comparisons) to the Px series as we are talking about a professional stage piano in case of the CPx series.

Try it out for yourself!

Happy playing!
_________________________
Yamaha CP33, Roland XP10, Fatar SL610

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#1548570 - 11/01/10 04:49 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
achat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 536
Loc: Rome, Italy
Hannibal2,

may you also add which speakers/amp have you bought or would you suggest for better results with the CP33?

A.

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#1548667 - 11/01/10 06:22 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: achat]
hannibal2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 100
Loc: Budapest, Hungary, EU
Fair enough, forgot to mention I play w/ headphones (Sennheiser HD497) 99% of the time. Comparisons were made solely w/ these headphones.

CP33 does not have onboard speakers so you're absolutely right, external amplification/monitors are an issue for a stage piano of this kind.
_________________________
Yamaha CP33, Roland XP10, Fatar SL610

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#1548688 - 11/01/10 06:43 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3841
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: Doomdog
I know almost everything already wink
The speakers, the GH vs GHS, the layers etc. etc.
I normally have the budget for P95 secured. I would have to stretch quite a lot for the CP33 (it's exactly double in price), but it's doable.
I am going to keep the DP for 10 years or until it breaks, whichever comes first.


Keep it for ten years?? Hopefully in ten years there will be a much nicer piano on the market and by then you will be able to easily afford it. I doubt anyone can plan ahead that far. Your needs change. Over just the next year your ears will become better trained and you will be able to hear defects in the sound of any piano you buy and your opinion of what makes a good piano key action will evolve. Five years is a more realistic time period for planning. If you are just starting out two years between upgrades is not unreasonable

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#1548736 - 11/01/10 07:56 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: ChrisA]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
I have had the P95 for 5 days, and did consider getting a P155. However, I thought that the P95 was an excellent value at $445 before a trade in I did.

I personally like the GHS action (I have been playing 30 years, mostly blues, billy joel elton john and original rock songs).

I can defintely see why people like GH better, but I like them both. I did not like the SP170 action although I love Korg's sound. I didn't care much for the Casio action either.

I wanted something with internal speakers, as it is a quicker on off time and more portable.
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#1548970 - 11/02/10 01:23 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
Doomdog Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 19
Hannibal2: I don't care it's older, the reviews are very convincing and I much prefer it to the P155 on all aspects. Unfortunately, I cannot test it or any other GH based board where I live.
(The official Yamaha dealer doesn't bring in the newer models, and for much of the others there is a "don't touch" policy on the floor! Other dealers are online only and the 2 or 3 with at least a small floor space do not keep stocks, not even for the P95 price range)

ashat: See above re P155. Also, I already have the speakers and 99% will be headphones anyway. Could you please (try to) explain "too light"? Yes, I know it's hard smile

ChrisA: I of course exaggerated a bit, 5 years is more likely. You almost got me thinking that it's not so critical to make a clear cut choice right now, there is time and there is DP evolution and what not...


Originally Posted By: HowardK

I can defintely see why people like GH better, but I like them both.


See, that's where I go crazy ::)

Anyway, I must add - the single MOST important thing I want from my DP is an action that will NOT ruin my fingers and technique for the future. I am picking off from about 8th grade level and I will start the rebuilding with Hanon and Czerny, mind you smile
Please tell me GHS is good for that.

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#1548989 - 11/02/10 01:56 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9352
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Quote:
Anyway, I must add - the single MOST important thing I want from my DP is an action that will NOT ruin my fingers and technique for the future. I am picking off from about 8th grade level and I will start the rebuilding with Hanon and Czerny, mind you
Please tell me GHS is good for that.


I would recommend saving your money for a little while longer.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1549027 - 11/02/10 03:44 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
hannibal2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 100
Loc: Budapest, Hungary, EU
Hello Doomdog,

Exactly same here: action is one of the most important things. I also plan for 10 years, maybe 15(my other instruments are that old ant still love them morover use them weekly in my band!). I have chosen the CP33 because I would NOT like to buy portable stage piano for 10 years, the action should be second to none. Others also mentioned the soft-synth or VST (Ivory, PianoTeq, etc) front, you can easily migrate to another sound if wanted but you can't upgrade your action with a firmware update so to speak.

Interesting point: when I bought the CP33, first me and my syster did a blind test with power-off _just to check the actoin and the feel of the models_. (P95/P155/CP33) Altough we have tested the P95 and P155 first, my syster repeated over and over when playing with the P95/P155 powered on w/ headphones: "...not too bad but still I would like to test the one on the top -of the shelf- before we leave."
guess what: that was the CP33 which I ruled out first because "being an older model, just 3 layers, just 64 polyphony (if it were a real bottleneck for most... frankly it isn't)"

It won't ruin your fingers, it's completely the opposite. This doesn't mean that the Px series is worse, it isn't. Great models but they are targeted to a different market segment.

Another note: CP33 does not have a built in recorder/sequencer (nor speakers). Something you might or might not need. But as it has MIDI and MIDIusb, I don't think this is a showstopper issue, come'on it's a professional stage piano with world-class action and excellent Grand Piano patch which easily cuts through the mix. (Proven to be true: tested on Sunday when being introduced to my garage band.)

Cheers
_________________________
Yamaha CP33, Roland XP10, Fatar SL610

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#1549029 - 11/02/10 03:47 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: hannibal2]
hannibal2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 100
Loc: Budapest, Hungary, EU
Hello

Another one to the table: altough this is a Yamaha forum, you may give the Kawai MP6 a shot when it hits the stores this November.

Kawai CN33 was on my shortlist a week ago and it has the same action as the MP6. Different to the CP33, lighter but still very very very good, very responsive, has a nice surface (if that matters) not that "bouncy" as other actions and very good feel overall...

/z
_________________________
Yamaha CP33, Roland XP10, Fatar SL610

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#1549083 - 11/02/10 06:01 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
achat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 536
Loc: Rome, Italy
Originally Posted By: Doomdog


ashat: See above re P155. Also, I already have the speakers and 99% will be headphones anyway. Could you please (try to) explain "too light"? Yes, I know it's hard smile


I try: I feel like the keys "rebound", and are kind of "springy". But keep in mind I never, never, put my hands on any other acoustic piano or DP with different key action. I maybe touch an upright about 20 years ago at a friend's home, but I have a vague memory of the sensation.

Actually my plan is to go in a shop and try to play (now that after 2 months of practice I actually can smile ) both a GH action and an acoustic, just to understand if the sensation I got from the P85 is correct, and if I prefer heavier key action or would it be "too heavier" for a beginner like me.

Notice that I bought "closed box" the P85 without any try. I wasn't able to play nothing last July.

Originally Posted By: Doomdog

Anyway, I must add - the single MOST important thing I want from my DP is an action that will NOT ruin my fingers and technique for the future. I am picking off from about 8th grade level and I will start the rebuilding with Hanon and Czerny, mind you smile
Please tell me GHS is good for that.


Ehm, I am not able to help you in this, sorry smile
But if you are an experienced player I think the GH action of the CP33 should be ok for you. And the overal "level" of the CP33 vs the P85 more adequate.

Edit: I am wondering: is there any equivalent to the CP33 "up to date" model?
What's the problem with it, too expensive?

A.


Edited by ashat (11/02/10 06:06 AM)

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#1549364 - 11/02/10 02:48 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: achat]
hannibal2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 100
Loc: Budapest, Hungary, EU
Hello Ashat

I think CP33 is *indeed* an up-to-date instrument it excells both in sound and action.

As far as I know: Yamaha CP300 is the brother of the CP33, the CP300 action is the same as the CP33 and the CP33 patches are included in the CP300 1:1.

Cheers
_________________________
Yamaha CP33, Roland XP10, Fatar SL610

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#1549385 - 11/02/10 03:04 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
Martin C. Doege Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 448
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
In an older thread (from last year I think) I had remarked that to me, the real big brother of the P-85 is the CP33, not the P-155. The 85 and 33 feel related and they somehow have a difficult-to-pinpoint inviting warmth and playability about them that the P-155/140 do not possess. I think this new thread supports that view.

Martin
_________________________
Yamaha P-85; Pianoteq Pleyel

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#1549425 - 11/02/10 03:53 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Martin C. Doege]
hannibal2 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 100
Loc: Budapest, Hungary, EU
Hello Martin

You're right, altough I think the P155 is still a very good DP, string resonance is great for ex.

But I think
- P155 is way overpriced
- D/A converter is not the same as CP33 so even if it has 4 velocity layers it gets 'lost' in the final audio signal - quality wise.

In favor of the P155: it has a built in sequencer and onboard speakers which might be important for some.

But if I were an owner of a P85 and would consider an upgrade, I would skip the P155 and would jump directly to CP33 or CP300. This does not mean that the P155 is bad, it is still a very great piano, don't get me wrong but I think you were right in your older posts about the CP33.

Cheers!


Edited by hannibal2 (11/02/10 03:53 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha CP33, Roland XP10, Fatar SL610

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#1549433 - 11/02/10 03:58 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: hannibal2]
achat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 536
Loc: Rome, Italy
Sorry,

I was convinced the CP33 was near to be "out of production" or something like that, maybe for the price going down recently.

A.

Originally Posted By: hannibal2
Hello Ashat

I think CP33 is *indeed* an up-to-date instrument it excells both in sound and action.

As far as I know: Yamaha CP300 is the brother of the CP33, the CP300 action is the same as the CP33 and the CP33 patches are included in the CP300 1:1.

Cheers

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#1549868 - 11/03/10 06:25 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: achat]
Doomdog Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 19
CP33 is still on the "current" lineup on the Yamaha site. What this fact says I am not sure though.

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#1552148 - 11/06/10 12:45 PM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
PhilipK Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 30
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I don't know if they have changed samples from P85 and P95, but CP33 and P85 do sound wery similar.
P155 do not sound the same, i guess they had the new CF3 samples.

My first DP was a P85 which i liked alot, then i owned a P155 for a short period and returned it because the sound didn't match most of the songs i wanted to play wery well.
I then went for a CP33 which i'm very fond of.
The action is quite heavy compared to other brands, but to my liking.

Thus i only use the Grand Piano 1 patch for playing certain songs i mostly now play over MIDI with Ivory 2 or Alica's Keys.
The Grand Piano 2 patch sounds awfull(IMO) on every Yamaha i have tried/owned(Sounds like a heavy filtered/modified GP1)

It's a great DP if you like the action, which in my oppninion is very important.
I have found that the built in samples isn't that important to me anymore, since i discovered the world of VSTi's smile.
But of course, that will cost you some extra money..
Good luck finding you DP, and be sure to try them all and go with the one you like!

/Philip
_________________________
Plays on a Yamaha CP33.

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#1556750 - 11/13/10 09:15 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
Doomdog Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 19
I had to come back to this thread and bring closure smile
At some point I just decided that doubts are not good, and I had serious doubts about the action on the P-85 (the only one I could try my hands on). I also couldn't find enough information about the alleged difference in feel between the GHS on P-85 and the one on P-95.
So, I canceled the order I had placed for the P-95 and went on and begged for more money wink Armed with that, I calmly placed an order for the CP33 and patiently (!) checked the UPS tracking system all the way to my doorstep smile I now am the proud owner of the CP33, complete with X stand, headphones, music rest and dust cover wink
All I can say is I'm glad I've trusted my instinct, screaming at me that I couldn't have lived with a lesser instrument...
The GH action is indeed very much different from GHS, and better. It's heavier than my upright!
If this action cannot correctly rebuild my fingers, than nothing (short of a real grand) can do it...

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#1556792 - 11/13/10 10:28 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3287
Originally Posted By: Doomdog
The GH action is indeed very much different from GHS, and better. It's heavier than my upright!
If this action cannot correctly rebuild my fingers, than nothing (short of a real grand) can do it...

This is actually what bugs me about some Yamaha keybeds (I haven't played the CP33, but I do like the P95), and also about the current line of Casios. I am always surprised when people say they like the heavier actions, and you put your finger on it with your qualifier "short of a real grand" -- any quality grand piano I've played has had a *lighter* action than these DPs. This is one of the things piano manufacturers strive for. A feeling of gradedness, noticeable escapement fall-off, heavy weight... all these things people here say they are looking for... these are exactly the feelings a fine piano manufacturer tries to find ways to engineer out of their pianos.

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#1556818 - 11/13/10 11:26 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
Doomdog Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 19
I simply find it more difficult to control expressiveness on a light action. I can't say I've tried a lot of DPs, but for sure I didn't feel right at the P-85. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad, maybe I could even get used to it, but I feel the CP33 more adequate and I am certain it's better from the point of view of finger strength, which is paramount for me at the moment.
That said, I am genuinely curious as to what would a real grand feel when the engineers succeed in their quest to eliminate all those things you mentioned. I think, though, that the perception of a hammer involved in the creation of the sound should remain, if we are to continue to call the piano a percussive instrument.

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#1556820 - 11/13/10 11:41 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3287
Originally Posted By: Doomdog
I am genuinely curious as to what would a real grand feel when the engineers succeed in their quest to eliminate all those things you mentioned.

You should definitely visit a store that sells high quality grand pianos. I played a Bluthner last week that felt magnificent... as they said in the old SNL skit, "like butter."

Originally Posted By: Doomdog
I think, though, that the perception of a hammer involved in the creation of the sound should remain, if we are to continue to call the piano a percussive instrument.

They still feel like hammers, which, after all, they still are. They are still depending on gravity for the return (rather than springs or other contrivances). You mentioned that even your upright feels lighter than your DP, so that should give you an idea, that something can certainly feel "like a piano" while still being light.

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#1556826 - 11/13/10 11:58 AM Re: TORN between P95 and CP33 [Re: Doomdog]
Doomdog Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 19
Yeah, but it's an old, unmaintained upright, and its "lightness" is more like a lack of continuity in movement. I can feel the hammer, but maybe the first part of the key travel is less "buttery" than on the DP. I don't know how to describe it smile

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