with typos my post may not have been clear. I thought that $15 per 30min lesson was outrageously cheap for Australia (in 2007) so I had to convince the family to pay more than this. And this was in major cities.

This is the same fee as what women pay to have their fingernails polished ($15 per week for nails being done). Maybe I'll point that out next time someone acts outraged over the fee.

I mostly teach for free, but take problem students from a couple of accredited teachers, with whom I am on good terms with. Altho not accredited, licensed and have not studied 'how to teach', i do spend a fair amount of time in preparation for lessons. Both of my paying students have given me substantial raises.

the non payers are very special.

i would simply dismiss that woman.. If you let confrontations upset you they will. You could always tell her that non accredited teachers could expect to get minimum wage.. in KS, that would be $3.50 per 30 minutes, and don't forget the taxes.

Yes, I think dismissing her is best. When someone sincerely wants new information it's one thing. But when they are so chock full of their own opinions that they burst out with insults, it's another.

Thanks for all the support and comments. It makes it worth the distress to get to share ideas with all of you.

This concerns parents and students too, because we assume too readily that the person called teacher knows what they are doing. I was struck by the questions she ** didn't ** ask you:

- how do you prepare for a student's lessons?
- what planning do you do for a new student after interviewing him
- if you had one thing to pass on to me that you wish you had known when you started out, that benefits students, what would it be?

How much effort will this person put into teaching, and how will that affect students in the long run? When a person asks how much they should charge before asking how they should proceed in a new profession, possibly it speaks of an attitude.

Those are great questions. If a parent ever asked me that, after recovering from cardiac arrest, I might be inclined to offer some serious bonus, just to insure their student joins my studio.

Um? I meant the librarian who thinks she can just off and start teaching piano, and phones an experienced to ask only about prices.

So you'd like a parent to ask you these things?

Yes, I knew you were referring to the librarian.

And yes, those are very appropriate questions for parents to ask. Of course, the answers would reflect the concern of the questioner, but should be similar overall. Actually, I generally provide the answers to parents during the interview, even though they don't ask the questions.

Be kind to the librarian, if you ever talk to her again. There is a market segment to be served by her variety of teacher. And, there are people who don't like to understand that a teacher likes to pay his bills and expenses (including taxes, medical care, and retirement fund) out of his own income.

The same issue has come into public discussion regarding the big-box retailers, who pay for their discounted prices with such low wages that employees have to turn to state programs for medical care, neatly shifting a big-ticket expense onto the public's shoulders.

A more desirable market segment, for you, is students who would feel ashamed not to pay you a rate which would support you decently. I'm not a wealthy person, but my piano tech and teacher set reasonable and appropriate rates for their time and skills, which I am glad to pay.

I have a feeling you might not feel quite generous enough to refer low-price shoppers to the librarian... but that's ok; you can just leave it alone.

ha ha

Well that one does have raised eyebrows, but in the emoticon I'm dreaming of the mouth shouldn't be giving anything away!!! Blank face, raised eyebrows. Does it exist? (how funny that this question is hardly off topic at all)

So you think your services are equal to getting your nails done? I'd like to think you're worth more than that!

Time to raise your rates...and don't apologize, either. You deserve to be paid more.

Jeff, I like your idea of being kind. It can apply to any situation. Better to just be kind than to get upset.

AZN, I would only mention the comparison between lessons and getting nails polished as a way to point out how REASONABLE/BARGAIN the lesson price is. If it came up again I might ask her if she thinks it is "highway robbery" when she pays $15 to have her nails done. Just to give her something to think about...to give her a reality check.

My first thought was that she was way out of line with her response to you.

My second thought was that your rates are too low!!!

My third thought was that this lady will be trouble down the road...badmouthing either openly or with behind the scene remarks.

My fourth thought was that you might call her back and say that upon thinking about her remarks that she was not only insulting but way off base and explain why. That will then set the record straight before she does my 3rd thought.

Also that it wouldn't matter what she charged, that without the background of teaching piano, she will be doing a dis-service to those students that she takes on. I am a strong believer in the first couple of years of teaching are most important.

Phew....now off my rant box!

I'm not fully aware of fees in the US, but here in Greece I charge around 40$ per hour. And this is considered a tiny bit high in the general market, but with my credentials it would be plainly stupid to lower them any further! I haven't had any complain from any parent or student, and no student has dropped me as a teacher yet (in my 2 years in Greece, so it's relatively early yet to start loosing students! :D)

lilylady, she asked the "going rate" for lessons. I told her that $15 per lesson was the rate that music students charge (i.e. someone serious, but without teaching experience and without a music degree). So I never told her my rate, and she didn't ask.

I agree that she was way out of line. But it's her issue. (I still feel ticked, but I intend to be kind, and let it be her issue.)

Nikolas, the teachers here with master's in performance from what I've seen tend to charge about $102 per month for 45 minute weekly lessons. It works out to $34 per hour (if you count the actual teaching time as paid time, and the rest of the work as volunteer work). So it's not much more per teaching hour than what students charge. You also see the music store here offering 30 minute lessons for $80 per month ($40 per hour).

The going rate is always determined by the market. Some areas are higher than others. And those with a master's in performance and a proven record of success with teaching can always charge more and still get students.

Oh, I missed that.

Be careful though...HER issue may become the issue of all local teachers, especially yours since you spoke with her. And she sounds very vocal without thinking.

You seemed to have calmed down. Good for you! While in my first reading I was rather outraged at her. Maybe I'll calm down too. I still think though that she would be better having knowledge of the WHY good teachers charge what they do.

Glad to hear that $15 for half hour is not your rate as an experienced teacher.

You guys think way too much about your responses and how to be witty and clever when none of that is needed.

The only time I cater to someone's personal feelings is when I am beholden to them or may have a possible future relationship with them.

With that individual I would have said, "Is there anything else I can answer for you?" Notice I didnt even respond to the remark. I'm not going to waste my time explaining things to someone who wouldn't understand. And I'm not going to say anything witty that's going to solicit another uninformed remark on her part.

I control the conversation when I dont react, but choose where the conversation goes.

D4v3, that would have been perfect. "Is there anything else I can answer for you?" I will try to remember to be matter of fact like that. Rein in emotions and be matter of fact. (Hasn't worked so well for me this far in my life, and I even had a co-worker in the past tell me "you wear your heart on your sleeve".)Still, I would like to just be matter of fact and get on with life.

Thinking of trying to rein in emotions reminds me of "La Cage Aux Folles" (The Bird Cage). Hysterical. Seeing a flambouyant gay couple try to pose as an upstanding conservative heterosexual couple.

"No good?"
LOL

D4v3, your approach is a wise one.

While it is best to remain unaffected by those around us we would be verging well into the autism spectrum to not find ourselves feeling a range of emotions as we go through our lives. Humour can be a therapeutic means of resolving tension. And thinking something through once means that we are better prepared for similar experiences the next time.

I'm always cautious of people who diss thinking.

Little Blue Engine, I didn't get your "No good?" comment. I think both versions I've seen of "The Bird Cage" are very funny. One of my favorites.

Thank you to all who have posted on this thread. Your comments have given me many additional resources to pull out of my thinking cap. Summary:

DEFLECT intrusive questions by saying "Why do you ask?"
DISMISS rude comments by saying "Do you have any other questions?"
DISCUSS issues only when safe to do so. This one is not to be used with idiots.

The very nice business suit... with the pink stockings. The Mike Nichols/Elaine May version.

Little Blue Engine,
Now I get your comment. You meant was it any good to try to appear to be a conservative couple. Ah, you'll have to see the movie to find out how well the ruse worked. But imagine a man with an effeminate swing to his gait trying to walk like John Wayne. (That was part of their plan.)

Perhaps, next time you see your new 'friend', you could ask for her thoughts on a retired music teacher, offering to be a librarian, a couple of days a week, for half the salary of a qualified librarian?

"I told her the amount generally charged for 30 minute lessons ($15) and she said "Oh, my GOD! That's highway robbery!""

Well fine, so she is going to teach people for less?

Or is your actual complaint that she is robbing away your students, using rediculously low charges (sitting on a "retirement plan" as you say).

It is her good right to "sponsor" poor students, isn't it? And SHE paid herself for the retirement plan, right?

Clearly, you will have a problem if you loose students this way. I just do not believe that you can blame her for it.

So far this woman has no students, and I feel I am in no danger of losing mine. She can charge as little as she likes. She can even pay her students to study with her for all I care. I was just taken aback by her rude outbursts and accusation. I've since decided to associate with people who are kind and supportive, and keep my distance from someone like this.

That's 51% of the nature of networking. Sadly the other 49% is dealing with anyone who deals with remotely anything to do with music... (honestly I'm sadden by this, but too personal to discuss... :()

"I was just taken aback by her rude outbursts and accusation. I've since decided to associate with people who are kind and supportive, and keep my distance from someone like this."

Ah, I did not read that from your first post. Yes, if there is no need to associate with someone and you don't feel you can help then why bother?