Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#1549979 - 11/03/10 10:27 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
with typos my post may not have been clear. I thought that $15 per 30min lesson was outrageously cheap for Australia (in 2007) so I had to convince the family to pay more than this. And this was in major cities.
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#1549998 - 11/03/10 11:04 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: R0B]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Originally Posted By: R0B
$15/30 min, seems like extraordinarily good value to me.

This is the same fee as what women pay to have their fingernails polished ($15 per week for nails being done). Maybe I'll point that out next time someone acts outraged over the fee.

Top
#1550002 - 11/03/10 11:08 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
I mostly teach for free, but take problem students from a couple of accredited teachers, with whom I am on good terms with. Altho not accredited, licensed and have not studied 'how to teach', i do spend a fair amount of time in preparation for lessons. Both of my paying students have given me substantial raises.

the non payers are very special.

i would simply dismiss that woman.. If you let confrontations upset you they will. You could always tell her that non accredited teachers could expect to get minimum wage.. in KS, that would be $3.50 per 30 minutes, and don't forget the taxes.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

Top
#1550053 - 11/03/10 12:21 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Yes, I think dismissing her is best. When someone sincerely wants new information it's one thing. But when they are so chock full of their own opinions that they burst out with insults, it's another.

Thanks for all the support and comments. It makes it worth the distress to get to share ideas with all of you. smile

Top
#1550074 - 11/03/10 12:53 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11663
Loc: Canada
This concerns parents and students too, because we assume too readily that the person called teacher knows what they are doing. I was struck by the questions she ** didn't ** ask you:

- how do you prepare for a student's lessons?
- what planning do you do for a new student after interviewing him
- if you had one thing to pass on to me that you wish you had known when you started out, that benefits students, what would it be?

How much effort will this person put into teaching, and how will that affect students in the long run? When a person asks how much they should charge before asking how they should proceed in a new profession, possibly it speaks of an attitude.

Top
#1550081 - 11/03/10 01:09 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7355
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Those are great questions. If a parent ever asked me that, after recovering from cardiac arrest, I might be inclined to offer some serious bonus, just to insure their student joins my studio.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1550108 - 11/03/10 02:06 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11663
Loc: Canada
Um? I meant the librarian who thinks she can just off and start teaching piano, and phones an experienced to ask only about prices.

So you'd like a parent to ask you these things? smile

Top
#1550116 - 11/03/10 02:14 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7355
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Yes, I knew you were referring to the librarian.

And yes, those are very appropriate questions for parents to ask. Of course, the answers would reflect the concern of the questioner, but should be similar overall. Actually, I generally provide the answers to parents during the interview, even though they don't ask the questions.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1550308 - 11/03/10 06:21 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
Be kind to the librarian, if you ever talk to her again. There is a market segment to be served by her variety of teacher. And, there are people who don't like to understand that a teacher likes to pay his bills and expenses (including taxes, medical care, and retirement fund) out of his own income.

The same issue has come into public discussion regarding the big-box retailers, who pay for their discounted prices with such low wages that employees have to turn to state programs for medical care, neatly shifting a big-ticket expense onto the public's shoulders.

A more desirable market segment, for you, is students who would feel ashamed not to pay you a rate which would support you decently. I'm not a wealthy person, but my piano tech and teacher set reasonable and appropriate rates for their time and skills, which I am glad to pay.

I have a feeling you might not feel quite generous enough to refer low-price shoppers to the librarian... but that's ok; you can just leave it alone.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#1550489 - 11/03/10 10:55 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
ha ha
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

Top
#1550511 - 11/03/10 11:50 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: AZNpiano]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: Elissa Milne
(raises eyebrows) - I love it - is there an emoticon for that?!


You mean this one?

Well that one does have raised eyebrows, but in the emoticon I'm dreaming of the mouth shouldn't be giving anything away!!! Blank face, raised eyebrows. Does it exist? (how funny that this question is hardly off topic at all)
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1550586 - 11/04/10 03:16 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5462
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Originally Posted By: R0B
$15/30 min, seems like extraordinarily good value to me.

This is the same fee as what women pay to have their fingernails polished ($15 per week for nails being done). Maybe I'll point that out next time someone acts outraged over the fee.


So you think your services are equal to getting your nails done? I'd like to think you're worth more than that!

Time to raise your rates...and don't apologize, either. You deserve to be paid more.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Top
#1550685 - 11/04/10 09:10 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Jeff, I like your idea of being kind. It can apply to any situation. Better to just be kind than to get upset. smile

AZN, I would only mention the comparison between lessons and getting nails polished as a way to point out how REASONABLE/BARGAIN the lesson price is. If it came up again I might ask her if she thinks it is "highway robbery" when she pays $15 to have her nails done. Just to give her something to think about...to give her a reality check.

Top
#1550733 - 11/04/10 11:16 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
My first thought was that she was way out of line with her response to you.

My second thought was that your rates are too low!!!

My third thought was that this lady will be trouble down the road...badmouthing either openly or with behind the scene remarks.

My fourth thought was that you might call her back and say that upon thinking about her remarks that she was not only insulting but way off base and explain why. That will then set the record straight before she does my 3rd thought.

Also that it wouldn't matter what she charged, that without the background of teaching piano, she will be doing a dis-service to those students that she takes on. I am a strong believer in the first couple of years of teaching are most important.

Phew....now off my rant box!
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

Top
#1550734 - 11/04/10 11:22 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5251
Loc: Europe
I'm not fully aware of fees in the US, but here in Greece I charge around 40$ per hour. And this is considered a tiny bit high in the general market, but with my credentials it would be plainly stupid to lower them any further! frown I haven't had any complain from any parent or student, and no student has dropped me as a teacher yet (in my 2 years in Greece, so it's relatively early yet to start loosing students! :D)
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1550760 - 11/04/10 12:17 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
lilylady, she asked the "going rate" for lessons. I told her that $15 per lesson was the rate that music students charge (i.e. someone serious, but without teaching experience and without a music degree). So I never told her my rate, and she didn't ask.

I agree that she was way out of line. But it's her issue. (I still feel ticked, but I intend to be kind, and let it be her issue.)

Nikolas, the teachers here with master's in performance from what I've seen tend to charge about $102 per month for 45 minute weekly lessons. It works out to $34 per hour (if you count the actual teaching time as paid time, and the rest of the work as volunteer work). So it's not much more per teaching hour than what students charge. You also see the music store here offering 30 minute lessons for $80 per month ($40 per hour).

The going rate is always determined by the market. Some areas are higher than others. And those with a master's in performance and a proven record of success with teaching can always charge more and still get students.

Top
#1550816 - 11/04/10 01:27 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
lilylady, she asked the "going rate" for lessons. I told her that $15 per lesson was the rate that music students charge (i.e. someone serious, but without teaching experience and without a music degree). So I never told her my rate, and she didn't ask.

I agree that she was way out of line. But it's her issue. (I still feel ticked, but I intend to be kind, and let it be her issue.


Oh, I missed that.

Be careful though...HER issue may become the issue of all local teachers, especially yours since you spoke with her. And she sounds very vocal without thinking.

You seemed to have calmed down. Good for you! While in my first reading I was rather outraged at her. Maybe I'll calm down too. I still think though that she would be better having knowledge of the WHY good teachers charge what they do.

Glad to hear that $15 for half hour is not your rate as an experienced teacher.
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

Top
#1550890 - 11/04/10 03:03 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
D4v3 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 501
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
You guys think way too much about your responses and how to be witty and clever when none of that is needed.

The only time I cater to someone's personal feelings is when I am beholden to them or may have a possible future relationship with them.

With that individual I would have said, "Is there anything else I can answer for you?" Notice I didnt even respond to the remark. I'm not going to waste my time explaining things to someone who wouldn't understand. And I'm not going to say anything witty that's going to solicit another uninformed remark on her part.

I control the conversation when I dont react, but choose where the conversation goes.
_________________________
Currently learning composition:

Some of my compositions

Top
#1550896 - 11/04/10 03:22 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
D4v3, that would have been perfect. "Is there anything else I can answer for you?" I will try to remember to be matter of fact like that. Rein in emotions and be matter of fact. (Hasn't worked so well for me this far in my life, and I even had a co-worker in the past tell me "you wear your heart on your sleeve".)Still, I would like to just be matter of fact and get on with life.

Top
#1550947 - 11/04/10 04:29 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Thinking of trying to rein in emotions reminds me of "La Cage Aux Folles" (The Bird Cage). Hysterical. Seeing a flambouyant gay couple try to pose as an upstanding conservative heterosexual couple.

Top
#1550996 - 11/04/10 06:19 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
Thinking of trying to rein in emotions reminds me of "La Cage Aux Folles" (The Bird Cage). Hysterical. Seeing a flambouyant gay couple try to pose as an upstanding conservative heterosexual couple.

"No good?"
LOL
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


Top
#1551101 - 11/04/10 08:27 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
D4v3, your approach is a wise one.

While it is best to remain unaffected by those around us we would be verging well into the autism spectrum to not find ourselves feeling a range of emotions as we go through our lives. Humour can be a therapeutic means of resolving tension. And thinking something through once means that we are better prepared for similar experiences the next time.

I'm always cautious of people who diss thinking.
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1551337 - 11/05/10 07:58 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Little Blue Engine, I didn't get your "No good?" comment. I think both versions I've seen of "The Bird Cage" are very funny. One of my favorites.

Thank you to all who have posted on this thread. Your comments have given me many additional resources to pull out of my thinking cap. Summary:

DEFLECT intrusive questions by saying "Why do you ask?"
DISMISS rude comments by saying "Do you have any other questions?"
DISCUSS issues only when safe to do so. This one is not to be used with idiots.

smile

Top
#1551411 - 11/05/10 10:34 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
The very nice business suit... with the pink stockings. The Mike Nichols/Elaine May version.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#1551417 - 11/05/10 10:41 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
Little Blue Engine,
Now I get your comment. You meant was it any good to try to appear to be a conservative couple. Ah, you'll have to see the movie to find out how well the ruse worked. But imagine a man with an effeminate swing to his gait trying to walk like John Wayne. (That was part of their plan.) smile


Edited by Ann in Kentucky (11/05/10 10:41 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling

Top
#1551429 - 11/05/10 11:10 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1439
Loc: Australia
Perhaps, next time you see your new 'friend', you could ask for her thoughts on a retired music teacher, offering to be a librarian, a couple of days a week, for half the salary of a qualified librarian?
_________________________
Rob

Top
#1553737 - 11/08/10 04:09 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3515
"I told her the amount generally charged for 30 minute lessons ($15) and she said "Oh, my GOD! That's highway robbery!""

Well fine, so she is going to teach people for less?

Or is your actual complaint that she is robbing away your students, using rediculously low charges (sitting on a "retirement plan" as you say).

It is her good right to "sponsor" poor students, isn't it? And SHE paid herself for the retirement plan, right?

Clearly, you will have a problem if you loose students this way. I just do not believe that you can blame her for it.
_________________________

Top
#1553754 - 11/08/10 04:34 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Overexposed Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2647
So far this woman has no students, and I feel I am in no danger of losing mine. She can charge as little as she likes. She can even pay her students to study with her for all I care. I was just taken aback by her rude outbursts and accusation. I've since decided to associate with people who are kind and supportive, and keep my distance from someone like this.

Top
#1553766 - 11/08/10 05:02 PM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5251
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Ann in Kentucky
I've since decided to associate with people who are kind and supportive, and keep my distance from someone like this.
That's 51% of the nature of networking. Sadly the other 49% is dealing with anyone who deals with remotely anything to do with music... frown (honestly I'm sadden by this, but too personal to discuss... :()
_________________________
http://www.musica-ferrum.com

Top
#1554103 - 11/09/10 02:39 AM Re: rant about phone call [Re: Overexposed]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3515
"I was just taken aback by her rude outbursts and accusation. I've since decided to associate with people who are kind and supportive, and keep my distance from someone like this."

Ah, I did not read that from your first post. Yes, if there is no need to associate with someone and you don't feel you can help then why bother?
_________________________

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
80 registered (BB Player, AliAlkhiro, 22 invisible), 1183 Guests and 23 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76053 Members
42 Forums
157257 Topics
2309777 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
romantic era fugues
by Lingyis
7 minutes 31 seconds ago
European Piano Party 2015 in Switzerland!
by SwissMS
25 minutes 45 seconds ago
Should I pursue piano?
by arpan70
Today at 01:05 AM
An edifying challenge
by BDB
Yesterday at 11:44 PM
Steinway or Porsche?
by Jennymomofboys
Yesterday at 10:16 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission