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My original Casio didn't do that. My later Casio (PX-310) annoyingly did (it was because of the FX implementation, I think). The current Casio PX-3 works properly again. I'm not sure about the lower models, I would think they would at this point as well, but maybe someone else can confirm.

I agree, it could well be a screw-up on the chart. From what I can tell from the owner's manuals, both the P85 and the P95 have dynamic sampling (i.e. multi-layer) on the electric pianos, and neither has it on the acoustic pianos. In fact, the paragraph about this in the P95 manual is a direct lift from the P85 manual. So either it is the same, or someone forgot to update the change in the new manual. Presumably assuming I get you the DPBSD file, you'll be able to tell if the P95 has more layers than the P85?

It's not possible for me to tell the P85 is a single layer from the spectral views, but I'd probably be able to say whether or not the P95 AP is the same as the P85 AP, which is what we are all wondering.

Very good. Of course, if the only sound improvement (if there is any at all) comes from better speakers, the DPBSD won't show that... but it's a good start, especially for those of us who rarely use the internal speakers anyway.

but "better" may be subjective, "more powerful" is objective and may be proved.

A.

Could it be related with the Electric Pianos being "multi-layer"?

Here is the link to the Pianoteq forum thread about P85 velocity curves.
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=1225



Is this possible on the Pianoteq Play or just on the full version?

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In fact here Yamaha declares "DSS" is not in the P95.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/cda/flash/dp/videoplayer/dpvideoplayer.asp

A.

Very good, ashat! Now it's a cage match fight to the death between two conflicting Yamaha Flash player chart dots. My money's on this latest dot being the correct one.

I don't know if there is a difference between acoustic and electric voices in terms of MIDI velocities. You could try hitting the same note over and over with about the same speed while switching voices and watching the incoming MIDI velocities in PT for changes to find out.



According to the screenshots at pianoteq.com, I guess 415 Hz is possible in PLAY, but changing the temperament is not...



Like I said, maybe DSS is present on the P-95, but not in the acoustic piano voice. Because page 2 only seems to talk about sampling grands, while page 1 with the table seems to lump all voices conveniently together.

The P-95 manual just notes that the electric pianos use multiple layers and calls that "Dynamic Sampling", but I guess that's no different from the P-85, is it?

Martin

Well, either way, they would be *different* which is what gets back to my original point.
But actually "more powerful" is about as ambiguous as "better" is. What does "more powerful" mean? Louder? (Since the amp is the same, that would mean "more efficient.") Or more bass? Or maybe something else? Speakers don't actually have anything truly called "power" (although amplifiers do), so it's a fuzzy marketing word more than anything else.

Power referred to a speaker is usally the power the speaker is able to handle. And it is measurable.
"Better" is not measurable.

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I think you're right Martin, DSS probably applies to the EPs and not to the APs. I just checked the P-85 manual and found this on page 6:


It might be though that the EPs are not sampled in stereo.

Yes, a speaker has power handling capability. If the number is higher, it means it can work with an amplifier that is more powerful. The speaker itself is not more powerful. In fact, you can easily have a speaker that can handle 200 watts that ends up not being able to play as loud as some other speaker that can only handle 100 watts (because the efficiency is different). So it is definitely inappropriate to say that a speaker that can *handle* more power is "more powerful." (As an aside, in the case of the P85 and P95, the amps have the same power. So a speaker that could handle more power would offer no benefit, as there is no more power to handle.)

The problem is that the P-85 does not have DSS according to the table, but supposedly has the same electric piano voices as the P-95. So maybe the new Jazz organ is the answer?

Martin

but if saying "more powerful" the German video would mean "capable to handle more power" this could actually be measured.
if it is saying "better" this cannot be measured.

A.

But "more powerful" doesn't in any way mean "capable to handle more power." I understand English is your second language, and maybe we're just running into a situation where the grammar isn't translating properly.

Scott, it is not me and my English as a second language.

I wrote: "if saying more powerfu the German video would mean....", which means "maybe the German guy in the video is using the expression "more powerful" to mean "capable to handle more power", because as a commercial video it could be there are this kind of unprecise/approximative statements. And what matters in what I wrote is that a quantitative statement like that could be verified by some sort of measurement. While if he said "better" this to me means nothing, because it is subjective and cannot be verified/measured.

I was just trying to discover if he is using a quantitative statement (more powerful or something like that) or a qualitative statement (better).

Is it clear now? I hope so

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Well, even if the German speaker did make a mistake and say "more powerful speaker" when he meant "speaker capable of handling more power" (which, at least in English, is not at all the same thing), what difference would that make if you're not actually sending it any more power? The amp is still just 6 watts, so substituting a speaker that can handle more power doesn't provide any benefit (unless the speakers in the P85 were insufficient for the 6 watt amp and were regularly distorting or getting blown, but I have seen no such complaints).

I think it is more likely he is making a properly worded qualitative statement to describe what he perceives as an actual benefit, rather than making a wrongly worded quantitative statement that actually would not produce any audible improvement.

Semantics aside, the real question is whether or not the speakers are actually truly different in any respect, that's what really matters here, and that is what we have not yet determined for certain.

If I were a betting man I'd put lots of money on "no difference". If there truly was a change you'd see it reflected in the manual, the web, the specs, etc. - Yamaha would basically be shouting it from the rooftops. It costs real money to make changes, and they don't generally ignore them after they've gone out of their way to make them.

which does not refer to a concrete difference so it is just a subjective evaluation.



and you should even consider that "different" does not necessarily implies "better"...

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