Thanks for the review FrankDaddy.

Somehow you have now made me VERY interested in the MP6, even though I was not actually currently looking for a new DP, and on top of that I was very disappointed in the MP5 AP's!

FrankDaddy: Thanks for the info. How do you like the key click sound on the organs? The key click on the Kawai demo mp3's sounded off to me.

@Kawai James, sorry for my rather late response, but isn't that the same demo sound material as on the European site ?! Or is there some additional material hidden ?

Quote: "By the way, there is additional MP10/MP6 content at the KawaiUS.com site."

JFP, 'content' can mean any combination of text, images, audio, or video.

Cheers,
James
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Couldn't have put it better myself

Cheers,
James
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Thanks for the review, Frank. Much appreciated.

On the MP8, some control features are assignable to the expression pedal, the left foot pedal, the SW switch, and the mod wheel. Don't know if that's of any help to you on this model.

I got a nice surprise when I put nearfield monitors and the sub on. It made the keyboard sound a lot more 'like it's supposed to' than the headphones did, especially the organ voices.

@Kawai James,

So no 'new' sound samples. I was specifically interested in MP10 demo's because of the "ziff" I heard in the current demo's. Any chance something like that will happen (before the MP10 hits the stores and users might be putting stuff on the web) ?

Still haven'r ruled out the MP's , but the strange sound at the beginning of the mid-range ff notes annoys me (see previous remarks about the AP demo's).

JFP, no new MP10 sound clips I'm afraid.

The 'ziff' sound you are hearing is possibly the result of the MP3 compression. Each demo was recorded to MP3 using the MP10's USB Audio functions, then normalised using sample editing software, and finally re-encoded back to MP3. It's this 'transcoding' (effectively lossy compressing the audio twice) that is likely causing the artefacts you can hear.

It would have been preferable to record the original demos on the MP10 in WAV format, apply the normalisation, then encode to MP3 (or FLAC), however unfortunately... well, suffice it to say this obviously didn't happen.

I recommend that you listen to some of the previous CA63 recordings posted by mucci or CyberGene's recent Scriabin (here). The CA93/CA63 and MP10 piano sounds are not exactly the same, however the creation process (WAV-->Normalise-->MP3) is at least correct, and should be without any 'ziff' compression artefacts.

As always however, I recommend that you do not base your purchasing decision merely on MP3 demos or YouTube clips. There is absolutely no substitute for playing an instrument with your own hands and listening to the sound produced with your own ears - this of course applies to all DPs regardless of the brand or model.

Cheers,
James
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Amateurs...if this is the standard of care from the company on highly visible marketing operations, it is not difficult to understand how buggy firmware is created and shipped from less visible engineering operations....

What are the differences between the CAx3 sounds and the MP10?


Great recommendation. Presumably the place to do so would be in a store actually stocking and displaying these instruments.

If it is the recommendation from Kawai to find a Kawai dealer, then why does Kawai make this so difficult and why is Kawai the only manufacturer that doesn't provide dealer search functionality on its European website?

Well, someone made an honest mistake - it happens.



Please stop trolling.

Bugs are an inherent part of all software development. All Kawai digital pianos undergo a rigorous period of bug testing before each firmware is sent to the factory. It's obviously unfortunate when consumers encounter software issues, however I believe Kawai's excellent record of resolving any reported problems speaks for itself.



I believe the Concert Grand pianos are largely from the same sample source, however some of the Pop and Jazz piano sounds are new. In addition, the MP10 features additional Virtual Technician parameters such as Damper Noise, Fall Back Noise, Hammer Delay etc., in addition to several more existing MP parameters that are not available on the CA models.



Thank you.



Correct.



We don't.



I'm afraid I don't know. However, I will certainly make a point of suggesting this to my European colleagues on Monday. In the meantime, European consumers are encouraged to contact Kawai Europe directly using the information on this page, or check Kawai Japan's distributor information on this page.

Thank you for the positive suggestion.

Cheers,
James
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Thanks for this.
I do no longer directly answer to theJourneys troll comments since I don't want to get personally offended by him.

I agree that the keyclick sounded off on the demo. I was able get a very good keyclick on the MP6. I think that was something left behind on the compression process. It did sound very authentic on my system through headphones. I am now looking at geting some Near Field monitor speakers to show off the instrucment. I had a 1951 Hammond Organ for years. Unfortunatly going through some hard times forced me to sell it. So I am mentally comparing the MP6 to that organ. The more I play with the MP6 organ the more I like it. Other than the how to set the tonebar settings I am most satified with the organ.

Hi Guys

this is not meant to be a slap at Kawai. The demos on the website do not sound as good as the MP6 does live. Yes they could have use different methodolgies in recording the instruments but that did not happen. So it looks like the best thing to do is to try to find one and play it. Or in my case order online with liberal return policies.

This is a big advantage of living in America!

FrankDaddy, please do post your comparison with the CPs, when you have a moment.

I am one step nearer getting my own situation sorted out. I just won an eBay auction for a used MP5 (they are actually pretty thin on the ground). If it impresses me, I may keep it as a rehearsal board, and get the MP6 for gigs. If not, I will probably buy the SV-1.

James, if you're out there, can you say how much difference there is between the old and new APs and EPs? I know the technical specs, so am looking for some kind of guide as to what sonic differences to expect if I go from the 5 to the 6. It's a little weird to be buying an older model in order to do some sort of meaningful demo, but that seems to be my only option at the moment.

voxpops, to answer your question, there is a significant difference between the AP and EP sounds in the MP5 and MP6. I would suggest that the main AP/EP sounds on the MP5 are comparable to the older ES4.

While the interface and operation of the MP5/MP6 are certainly very similar, the keyboard action and main AP/EP sounds are significantly different. Therefore I'm afraid it's rather difficult for me to see the wisdom in purchasing an MP5 as a means to assess the MP6 - they are two different instruments utilising vastly different keyboard and sound technologies.

Instead, I recommend that you contact Michelle's Piano Co. in Portland and arrange to demo Kawai DPs that utilise the current generation keyboard actions and piano sounds. While not quite identical to play-testing a 'real' MP6, this would still offer a far closer comparison than the older MP5.

Cheers,
James
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James, thanks for the contact in Portland - I'd never heard of Michelle's, so that's very useful.

As to the questionable wisdom of using the MP5 as a demo, yes I'm sure you're right. However, the similarities in the interfaces and menu structures would allow me to transfer from one to the other very easily if I were to use the MP5 as a rehearsal tool, and the MP6 as my main gigging instrument.

I backed off on the Mp3 process concern I had with their demos and then some more stuff came out of the woodwork regarding converting back and forth from Mp3 with an initially very low signal. It's good to hear there is more potential legroom to the sound of the machine. I can only hope Kawai get someone in with an audio interface of good quality and record the outputs of the Mp6 at a proper level.

I'm still very interested in the machine at this stage so that demo (as would one of your own..!) would go down very well at the moment..!!

Regards. Rimmer

Yes, the arguments about whether or not converting to MP3 creates audible issues didn't deal with the possibility that something was MP3, converted out of MP3 for editing, then re-encoded back to MP3 a second time. Another variable...

Yeah. Don't forget the low level of the original material as well. That's not going to help..

KawaiJames,

Sorry to bother you again, but in term of sampling, what is the difference between MP6 and ES6 on Concert Grand pianos?

Thanks.

virtu, I believe the the main Concert Grand sound on the MP6 and ES6 is from the same source, however the MP6 utilises a larger (in terms of memory size) sample set.

Kind regards,
James
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Thanls Kawai James, next week I have to decide which one to buy: the new MP6 or ES6.

If I go with ES6 maybe until next friday I will have it at home and if I decide to go with MP6 maybe I will receive it after november 15.

My principal purpose it will be to play piano (example: Through My Words from Dream Theater, some pieces from FF).

ES6 = ?MB
MP6 = ?MB

When it comes to sample sets, size really does mean something. I almost can't believe manufacturers used to be proud of these stats. What once was a big selling point is now a trade secret.

ES6 = 8MB
MP6 = 16MB

Something like that I guess ;-)

I may be joking, but I feel it's not even far from the truth. ROM-pler sample sets are never even close to those you will find on software based instruments. As long as it sounds right..., I heard Roland SN expansion board utilizes only 32MB of samples and combines that with the Sn processing. The samples are then mainly used for the attack phase and can be very short (at least that's what Roland decided for us).

Once everything is finally based on some sort of Physical Modelling , like the V-Piano, we can finally put this sample size debate to rest...may take a while though.

My best guess would be around double your estimates. And of course everyone is doing it which makes it OK.

Roland lists total ROM size for the RD-700GX as "256 MB (16-bit linear equivalent)" but has shied away from it now for the NX, even though it appears the NX has more in the way of samples. Go figure.

Time passes with no substantial improvement, and through neglect these numbers have entered the pathetically small category. DP manufacturers then behave like poor government: stamp it top secret if its divulgence might cause embarrassment for our betters.

I've played the ES6 and the CN33 (which i'm led to believe shares the same keyboard and a few of the AP sounds with MP6).

The CN33 is a much better keyboard and has a noticeably more complete AP sound. I'd personally have to have a very good reason to buy an ES6 over an MP6 (or CN33..) and I can't think of a single one personally...

Build-in speakers in a portable ?! Next step-up would be the FP7(F) , which can be to expensive for many people. Step down would be the PX330, at which stage I would prefer the build quality of a Kawai. Anything goes...

Hi Rimmer, today I did my choice and get it an ES6. The MP6 has a lots of features that I will not use and I believe that the ES6 will be nice for me for some years.

That will be my first DP =)

Thanks for all.

Regarding "sample size", are we talking about "equivalent" sample size, or actual physical memory? The reason I ask is that Kawai doesn't even use samples, does it? I have always assumed that Kawai's "sample" memory would contain Harmonic Imaging data. If we are referring to physical memory, it may be that Kawai needs considerably less memory for the same duration of sound.

The next question is - does Kawai use Harmonic Imaging for all sounds, or just the APs? In my (ancient) MP9000, I have always wondered about this, because it's ONLY the APs that have a very smooth change of timbre with velocity. (so maybe standard sampling is used for the rest of the sounds?)

Greg.