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#1553796 - 11/08/10 05:43 PM 48, most fun to play
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2594
Loc: Netherlands
sorry to bother you with this kind of question, but I need a little help: as I cannot choose between all the marvels Bach composed, and have to pick a few for students that have to play a p+f for competitions, what pair would you like to play?
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couch de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Chopin op.28/20/31/39/54

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#1553799 - 11/08/10 05:47 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Make a giant paper circle and divide it into 48 equal sections.
Make each section one of the preludes/fugues.
Put it on your wall.
Get a dart.
Turn around so you are facing away from the giant circle on your wall.
Throw the dart behind you.
Whatever it lands on is the prelude/fugue you'll teach your student! laugh

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#1553810 - 11/08/10 05:53 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2594
Loc: Netherlands
did it, it's e-flat minor in both books...
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couch de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Chopin op.28/20/31/39/54

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#1553811 - 11/08/10 05:54 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: dolce sfogato
did it, it's e-flat minor in both books...


laugh ha

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#1553818 - 11/08/10 06:02 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
I love them ALL!!! It's VERY hard to choose favorites. If I had to choose just one pair...hmmm...I have a real affinity for the Emajor, Fmajor, fminor, gminor from Bk II, but honestly I'd probably choose either the Cmajor from Bk II (the fugue is a blast), or the c#minor from Bk I (the fugue is one of those rarities that leaves you speechless and spent).
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1553820 - 11/08/10 06:04 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3621
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Here are some of my favorites to play. Top-level recommendation: F# minor Book II.


Book I

C major: you just can't beat it. The fugue theme is heard exactly 24 times. How perfect!
F# major: really delightful pair
Ab major: the fugue has some of my favorite sequences.
B major: underrated fugue, theme derived from the prelude
B minor: for me, the deepest of the preludes. And as for the "twelve-tone fugue"... what is there to say?

***

Book II

C minor: very satisfying. Underrated fugue.
D major: virtuoso prelude, calm deep fugue
E major: the "choral fugue" may be one of the best of the 48. Too bad the prelude is so dreadful. (sarcasm)
F# minor: probably my favorite pair of the 48


-Jason
_________________________
Schoenberg op.10+k, Beethoven op.100+k for k=9
Schubert D.899/4, Chopin op.25/2

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#1553821 - 11/08/10 06:04 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
pilgrim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 152
Loc: nova scotia
i always wanted to play g- from book ii but was never allowed because it was believed we would quibble over whether to double dot or not ENDLESSLY.

i played g#- from book i as my first, and B+ from book two was relatively easy to put together. a- from book one could be enjoyed by many!
_________________________
repertoire for the moment:
bach: prelude and fugue in b-, book i (WTC)
mozart - sonata in D+, k. 576
schumann (transc. liszt) - widmung
coulthard - image astrale

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#1553822 - 11/08/10 06:05 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2594
Loc: Netherlands
good good good, continue, please:)
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couch de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Chopin op.28/20/31/39/54

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#1553823 - 11/08/10 06:07 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: beet31425]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Too bad the prelude is so dreadful. (sarcasm)


-Jason


I'm so glad you added (sarcasm) at the end there. It's one of my very favorite preludes!
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1553824 - 11/08/10 06:08 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2229
Loc: San Jose, CA
Love:

G minor Bk I
F# minor Bk I
G major Bk II
A major Bk II

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#1553827 - 11/08/10 06:13 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: stores]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3621
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Too bad the prelude is so dreadful. (sarcasm)


-Jason


I'm so glad you added (sarcasm) at the end there. It's one of my very favorite preludes!


Yes, it's one of the most un-dreadful compositions ever, isn't it?

stores, since you're working them all up, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on some things, like which one is the most taxing, which requires the most concentration, which you think is the deepest, the most trivial, which is the most sublime, which is the most fun to play, etc. Don't feel you really have to answer if these aren't meaningful questions to you. It's just that I rarely get a chance to talk to someone who has actual playing familiarity with all 48. (I have listening familiarity with all of them, and playing familiarity with about a third).

-Jason
_________________________
Schoenberg op.10+k, Beethoven op.100+k for k=9
Schubert D.899/4, Chopin op.25/2

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#1553885 - 11/08/10 07:44 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: beet31425]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Too bad the prelude is so dreadful. (sarcasm)


-Jason


I'm so glad you added (sarcasm) at the end there. It's one of my very favorite preludes!


Yes, it's one of the most un-dreadful compositions ever, isn't it?

stores, since you're working them all up, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on some things, like which one is the most taxing, which requires the most concentration, which you think is the deepest, the most trivial, which is the most sublime, which is the most fun to play, etc. Don't feel you really have to answer if these aren't meaningful questions to you. It's just that I rarely get a chance to talk to someone who has actual playing familiarity with all 48. (I have listening familiarity with all of them, and playing familiarity with about a third).

-Jason



I don't mind at all and don't find the questions meaningless. I think they ALL require a high degree of concentration (as is the case with all Bach). When you're playing a complete set of 24 your concentration needs to be quite intense, because with Bach one misplaced finger can send you off the rails and it can be very difficult to find your place again. You have to immediately clear your mind between pieces and focus on the next. In some cases, however that's not always easy to do (the c#minor fugue from Bk I is one such case).
At any rate...
Most taxing...from a technical standpoint the Amajor fugue/Bk I. Most emotionally taxing...by far the c#minor fugue/Bk I, which I, personally, find the deepest and most sublime all at once. There are many, many others which I absolutely adore and love playing, but this fugue has a special place within the 48. There is such raw emotion here and so soon too! And then immediately we're launched into the Dmajor prelude, which is completely on the opposite end of the spectrum and very likely my favorite to play of the 48. It's been part of my warm up routine for well over 25 years, so it's a part of me and it dances like none of the other 47. I can't answer for most trivial, because there isn't a trivial moment in either book...this is music for the ages.
My favorite aspect of practising now is staying true while holding my little Yorkie, Ludwig, in my lap. He used to come sit at my feet while I practised, but for the past few months it's been up onto the bench and then my lap. I think he prefers the Eflat fugue from Bk I. =)
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1553892 - 11/08/10 07:58 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
sarah_elizabeth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/09
Posts: 466
Loc: Texas, U.S.
I cast my vote for the A-flat P&F from the first book.

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#1553893 - 11/08/10 07:58 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: stores]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3621
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: stores
I don't mind at all and don't find the questions meaningless...
Most taxing...from a technical standpoint the Amajor fugue/Bk I.

Thanks stores. What an honor it must be to play all 48. Maybe I'll do it someday...

You really meant A major and not A minor?? Whenever I've read through the A major fugue it's fit into my hands so easily. While A minor, as everyone says, and as my reading through confirms, seems a finger-twisting workout!

Good luck with the recital.

-Jason
_________________________
Schoenberg op.10+k, Beethoven op.100+k for k=9
Schubert D.899/4, Chopin op.25/2

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#1553897 - 11/08/10 08:01 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
It's hard to go wrong, but FWIW - My favorites:

WTC I:

C# Major
C# Minor
Eb Major
Eb Minor
E Major
Ab Major
B Major

WTC II:

D Major
Eb Major
F Minor
G Minor
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1553923 - 11/08/10 08:41 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: beet31425]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: stores
I don't mind at all and don't find the questions meaningless...
Most taxing...from a technical standpoint the Amajor fugue/Bk I.

Thanks stores. What an honor it must be to play all 48. Maybe I'll do it someday...

You really meant A major and not A minor?? Whenever I've read through the A major fugue it's fit into my hands so easily. While A minor, as everyone says, and as my reading through confirms, seems a finger-twisting workout!

Good luck with the recital.

-Jason



You're welcome and yes, it is quite an honor to play this music. I hope you're able to do the same some day.
Yes, I meant the aminor fugue and not the Amajor.

And thank you!
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1553934 - 11/08/10 09:05 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4669
Loc: Seattle area, WA
I love G# minor book 2, especially the prelude. Very unusual rhythms.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1553943 - 11/08/10 09:23 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 824
What my teacher has done is tell me to listen to them (yes all of them) and choose one. She also said that a good way to choose is to listen to the theme of the fugue, and make sure it is one you like because you will have to live with it through the whole fugue laugh . I think this is a good strategy, because the student has a special connection with the piece because they pick it themselves, and they also get to listen to Bach's awesome music!

Anyways, the first time I picked F major from Book II, and the second time I picked B flat Major from Book I.

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#1553966 - 11/08/10 10:08 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: stores]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3621
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: stores
Most emotionally taxing...by far the c#minor fugue/Bk I, which I, personally, find the deepest and most sublime all at once. There are many, many others which I absolutely adore and love playing, but this fugue has a special place within the 48.

Actually, my single favorite moment from all 48 is from that fugue: the low C#2 at the start of the theme, m.73.



Originally Posted By: stores
My favorite aspect of practicing now is staying true while holding my little Yorkie, Ludwig, in my lap...

I didn't know your dog was named Ludwig. Are you familiar with this book?

-Jason
_________________________
Schoenberg op.10+k, Beethoven op.100+k for k=9
Schubert D.899/4, Chopin op.25/2

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#1554032 - 11/08/10 11:49 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8696
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
So far not mentioned -if I have read the previous posts correctly- is the Bb from Book 1! It was the 2nd P&F I studied after the obligatory C minor, and I just loved it. The prelude falls beautifully under the hands and is very satisfying for a young pianist.

The fugue subject haunted me for days, and I well remember waxing enthusiastically about it with my teacher.
_________________________
Jason

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#1554035 - 11/08/10 11:53 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: beet31425]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8696
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: stores
My favorite aspect of practicing now is staying true while holding my little Yorkie, Ludwig, in my lap...

When I was a boy I had an adorable pet rat who sometimes sat quietly on my lap when practicing. Christoph was an awesome animal, very intelligent, and very much loved.
_________________________
Jason

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#1554118 - 11/09/10 03:23 AM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: beet31425]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: stores
Most emotionally taxing...by far the c#minor fugue/Bk I, which I, personally, find the deepest and most sublime all at once. There are many, many others which I absolutely adore and love playing, but this fugue has a special place within the 48.

Actually, my single favorite moment from all 48 is from that fugue: the low C#2 at the start of the theme, m.73.



Originally Posted By: stores
My favorite aspect of practicing now is staying true while holding my little Yorkie, Ludwig, in my lap...

I didn't know your dog was named Ludwig. Are you familiar with this book?

-Jason



Yes, I know the place you're referring to in the fugue. It's a very powerful moment, indeed.
Haha! No, I've not ever heard of that book.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1554119 - 11/09/10 03:27 AM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: argerichfan]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: stores
My favorite aspect of practicing now is staying true while holding my little Yorkie, Ludwig, in my lap...

When I was a boy I had an adorable pet rat who sometimes sat quietly on my lap when practicing. Christoph was an awesome animal, very intelligent, and very much loved.


Haha. I think a rat would be much easier in regard to learning how to navigate with him in place. The funny thing is that I think his wanting to be there has to do with the music specifically, because he'll come round, but doesn't want to sit in my lap when I'm not working on the WTC.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#1554170 - 11/09/10 07:37 AM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: stores]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
I figured Ludwig would want to sit in your lap if your practicing Beethoven! wink

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#1554487 - 11/09/10 06:06 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: Orange Soda King]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I figured Ludwig would want to sit in your lap if your practicing Beethoven! wink


Haha! Well, oddly enough, he doesn't seem too very convinced by his namesake (probably too much thunder and lightning!)
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#1554508 - 11/09/10 06:46 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Does it get bothersome having a dog in your lap while you practice?

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#1554516 - 11/09/10 07:07 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: Orange Soda King]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6645
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Does it get bothersome having a dog in your lap while you practice?


No. He's just a little guy...all of 8 pounds and he sits very quietly.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


Top
#1554521 - 11/09/10 07:10 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6035
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Oh. My friend has a HUGE HUGE dog, and sometimes he tries to sit in her lap while she practices. When I was over at her house, she sat down to play something for me, and the dog ran in and tackled her clear off the bench...

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#1554656 - 11/09/10 11:47 PM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: dolce sfogato]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4491
Loc: in the past
I was practicing once at my bf's parents' house (only because it was the night before a competition), and one of their cats knocked over my glass of RED wine on the floor, all over the beautiful white carpet. Then she jumped on the piano. I was so mortified!!! Hence I will always keep animals away from pianos... and glasses of wine....

Anyway. LIke someone else said, the deepest one for me is c# minor from book I. It's like a confession, especially the Prelude....


Edited by Pogorelich. (11/09/10 11:48 PM)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1554778 - 11/10/10 08:20 AM Re: 48, most fun to play [Re: Pogorelich.]
qtpi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/05
Posts: 252
Loc: Hockessin, Delaware
I am a serial Yorkie owner. My second one was Wolfgang- it was great calling him in from another room- Wolfgang! - and a guest would expect a huge German shepherd only to be greeted by an 8 pound Yorkie. My next one was named Windy after an Association song. The one in my lap right now is Merlin- my son named him. He sits next to me on my piano bench when I play. One day, Pandora was playing and a Chopin waltz I am working on came on and he ran into the piano room looking for me. Yorkies are great dogs!
_________________________
qtpi

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