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Topic Options
#1541546 - 10/23/10 07:07 AM NUMA Nero Pedal Options
curt88 Offline
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Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
This has been difficult to find information about... I've been trying to find out if the Numa Nero has pedal support for una corda as well as damper. The reviews that I've seen show that it ships with a non-continuous pedal (perfect for una corda but unusable as a damper!). As a minimum, I need both and can do without sostenuto.

Does anyone have knowledge on the pedal and connection specs for this potentially amazing controller??

Thanks!
Curt

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#1541560 - 10/23/10 07:31 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
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Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I have read the user manual and it says the pedals are configurable.
The sustain has a stereo plug and is configurable as continuous.

However I did not find details or continuous pedals offered by Fatar.

Peter
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#1541571 - 10/23/10 08:07 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
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Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Thank you Peter! Curious if you could point me toward a link to download/read the manual?

This controller seems to be my EVERYTHING piano controller. Barring some construction issues that were reported early on, I think we finally have the controller we pianists have been waiting for.

Curt

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#1541576 - 10/23/10 08:16 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
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Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
http://www.numaworld.it/support.html
BTW, what I wrote above is given from memory. I am not free from erros. Please check it.

Best,

Peter


Edited by hpeterh (10/23/10 08:18 AM)
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#1541589 - 10/23/10 08:42 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
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Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
You have good memory! Both jacks appear to be fully programmable as either continuous or as a switch and the polarity is also settable.

Hmm, a worthy $1200 investment!!

Curt

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#1541810 - 10/23/10 03:25 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
FogVilleLad Offline
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Registered: 03/02/05
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Loc: San Francisco
hpeterh, the specs list MIDI Out, but not MIDI In. Isn't a complete MIDI loup necessary?

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#1541825 - 10/23/10 03:43 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: FogVilleLad]
hpeterh Offline
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Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Sorry I dont have any of these keyboards.
I only readed the manuals.
I was interested in masterkeyboards and these dont need MIDI IN.
The Numapiano could need MIDI In, but I dont know if it has.

So far I have learned from other reviews, these keyboards are fine for POP Rock and Jazz but are not intended to simulate a classic grand and so I lost interest about them.

Peter


Edited by hpeterh (10/23/10 03:53 PM)
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#1541869 - 10/23/10 04:49 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
FogVilleLad Offline
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Understood.

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#1541909 - 10/23/10 05:34 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: FogVilleLad]
curt88 Offline
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Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
There is no onboard sound on the Nero Numa so MIDI IN is pointless. I could see maybe a MIDI THRU for multi-board live rig setups, but I don't see that as the target demographic for this board. It's really obvious that it was made for piano players that use software sample libraries.

I'm grabbing one up tonite. I can comment back in a few days after I've had a day or two with it... if anyone is interested?

Curt

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#1541919 - 10/23/10 05:46 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
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Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: hpeterh
So far I have learned from other reviews, these keyboards are fine for POP Rock and Jazz but are not intended to simulate a classic grand.

Peter

I'm curious how you came to this opinion? They are nothing more than an amazing wooden-keyed weighted keyboard action... what makes that more geared toward POP R&J and not classic grand? That's kinda like saying that a Steinway is more for POP rock because Billy Joel plays one and Van Cliburn was totally wrong in choosing one! smile

Curt

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#1541944 - 10/23/10 06:26 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
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Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I have read users reviews on amazon and some musicstores and else, mostly in german language. I can impossibly give links to those all.

The other point is technical: The numa actions have their sensors connected to the key, not to the hammer. Some users report that the key must be released very much, before it is ready to play the next note. This makes it physically impossible to play pian(issim)o repetitions or thrills as it is sometimes required in classical repertoire.
I had never the possibility to try it myself, so be aware that is pure theory, but I have some experiences with other older keyboards.

Finally, the Fatar masterkeyboards have a special organ mode. So far I understand it, this means that the velocity is fixed and NoteOn/NoteOff is solely triggered by the upper (release) sensor. That is, how I understand it, I cannot swear it.
This feature is unique and probably most welcome for the band-keyboarder, but useless for a solo pianist.

All this said, this is speculation, I never could try it. If I get the chance to try it, then I will surely try it.

Best,

Peter


Edited by hpeterh (10/23/10 06:42 PM)
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#1541951 - 10/23/10 06:37 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
Kawai James Online   content
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Originally Posted By: hpeterh
he Fatar masterkeyboards have a special organ mode. So far I understand it, this means that the velocity is fixed and NoteOn/NoteOff is solely triggered by the upper (release) sensor.
...
This feature is unique and probably most welcome for the band-keyboarder, but useless for a solo pianist.


Actually, similar functionality is activated when using the MP6's tonewheel organ simulation.

</offtopic>

Cheers,
James
x
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Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
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#1541954 - 10/23/10 06:41 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
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Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Good to know.
I think, this is On Topic very much.
Thanks.

Peter
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#1552485 - 11/06/10 10:32 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: hpeterh
However I did not find details or continuous pedals offered by Fatar.

Peter


I got my NUMA today and while overall it is just what I've been looking for in a controller (there are two keys that are slightly off-level and almost touch each other), I'm afraid I may have to return it for the reason Peter noted here. I cannot find a continuous pedal that is compatible with this board. WHY do they make a keyboard that so closely emulates an acoustic grand and then give you a momentary sustain pedal??? WHY?

I've contacted Studiologic and hope to hear from them soon but in the meantime, has anyone had any success finding a continuous pedal that works with Studiologic (NUMA) boards?

TIA,
Curt

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#1552642 - 11/07/10 03:49 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
Qbert Offline
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Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 328
Loc: Italy
What about these?
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#1552692 - 11/07/10 05:25 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
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Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I think you need the VFP 3-D.
http://www.fatar.com/pages/VFP3.htm

I have however, never seen these offered in a shop.

Possibly the Roland RPU-3 works.
http://www.rolandmusik.de/produkte/RPU-3/index.php

At least the plugs should fit in and somebody with basic electronic skills should be able to open the pedal and modify it for the NUMA Nero.

I personally however would not be reluctant to get the stand and pedal unit for the Kawai ES6. I love the design.
http://www.kawai.de/es6_de.htm
I am really shure, I could make this work, but I am a hard core modder ;-)





Peter



Edited by hpeterh (11/07/10 05:52 AM)
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#1552705 - 11/07/10 06:11 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: Qbert]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: Qbert
What about these?


That's the first place I went looking for pedals... NONE of them are continuous - or appear to be based on their description). The NUMA ships with the VFP-1 (which is useless) and the description of the other two pedals there is the same.

I seem to remember having a pedal (non-Roland) a while back that had a continuous/momentary switch on the bottom... but I think I must have eBay'd that thing when I "went Roland"...

Curt

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#1552709 - 11/07/10 06:20 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: hpeterh
I think you need the VFP 3-D.
http://www.fatar.com/pages/VFP3.htm

I have however, never seen these offered in a shop.

You think that their term "potentiometer control" is the same as continuous, hmm? That does sound promising...


Originally Posted By: hpeterh

Possibly the Roland RPU-3 works.
http://www.rolandmusik.de/produkte/RPU-3/index.php

At least the plugs should fit in and somebody with basic electronic skills should be able to open the pedal and modify it for the NUMA Nero.

Modify it HOW? Replace the switch with a pot?

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#1552711 - 11/07/10 06:38 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I think Fatar doesnt use the word "Continuous" they use the word "dynamic" instead.

They have continuous pedals I have seen it on a page that offered fatar replacement and DIY parts. (I dont have a link)

For the Roland pedal: I think there is a potentiometer inside and no active parts. This is the case for most continuous pedals. The sustain is continuous. It can be seen, because there is a stereo TRS connector and I know it from the Rolad FP7F description.

The "cold" tap should be connected with the sleeve and the cable screening and with frame ground of the keyboard.
The "Hot" tap might be connected with tip or ring.
and the slider tap of the potentiometer vice versa.

If "Hot","Slider" and "Cold" are resoldered to fit, this /should/ work. There is however no warranty. If I had the parts and could measure them, then I could say it for sure.

The middle and left pedal are switches and dont care because the NUMA is configurable.

Edit:
Look here: http://www.rolandmusik.de/produkte/RPU-3/images/RPU-3_1-big.jpg

It seems that all three pedals are continuous.

Edit again:
I know from various Fatar sites that they use potentiometers.
There is the other possibility to use LED's and photo resistors. I do however not believe, Roland uses these, else they would advertise the pedal as "Optical".



Peter


Edited by hpeterh (11/07/10 06:59 AM)
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#1552785 - 11/07/10 09:45 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Another option would be the CME GPP3:
http://www.cme-pro.com/products-list/product-gpp.html

It can be seen in use here:

So far I know it is not longer produced, but still in stock.
A lot of people complain about firmware problems and bad quality control, but the design is very sturdy and those that got a good unit are happy with it.
Because it has USB and MIDI it works with any Masterkeyboard.

Peter
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#1552830 - 11/07/10 10:37 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Thanks for all the options Peter! I remember all of the quality issues with this CME pedal. I also remember Garritan was going to offer this pedal at a discount for people that bought his Garritan Steinway and then the offer just evaporated at the same time the pedal was discontinued!

FATAR/Studiologic really came up short here. Why they advertise the perfect pedal (VFP3-D) and never make it available for sale is just bad and wrong.

Curt

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#1553674 - 11/08/10 02:24 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 584
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I don't know much about MIDI, curt... but what about this?

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodped.htm
_________________________
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#1553696 - 11/08/10 03:01 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: Strat]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Give me the service manual of all this devices or at least reasonable and true technical short data and pin assignments and I can tell if it will work or how to make it work ;-)

Reasonably, this box costs money and a continuous pedal costs money and the NUMA obviously has a continuous pedal input and this box has special requirements for power over MIDI and is reported not to work with the NUMA NANO, I expect more technical problems to be created than to be solved.

Of course if a keyboard has no (proportional) pedal input then this should be the solution.....

See here:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=94

It seems there are fatar fedals out that are continuous but are not advertised as such, because the dealers and advertising writers dont understand the technics.

Why dont they publish a rudimentary but correct diagramm and pin assignments? That would tell all.

Possibly this helps:

Google search fatar vfp3 d

This is the VFP3 2D inside:


Found here:
http://www.doepfer.de/we.htm

Possibly they can deliver it?
I bet the roland pedal has the same interior but possibly 3 potis...


Edited by hpeterh (11/08/10 03:35 PM)
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#1553768 - 11/08/10 05:06 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I did a little bit research.

The Numa Nero permits only 2 pedals. It has only 2 plugs for pedals. That is what most people report.

You already have one nonproportional pedal. So you need a second proportional single pedal and mount both on a board.

Either a single Roland pedal or a Yamaha pedal should work. So the problem is which of them works....
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#1553913 - 11/08/10 08:23 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
I appreciate all of your research! But I sent back the NUMA. The action was just too synth-like for me. Very heavy and the key would actually push your finger back up! VERY fast rise on the keys... seemed very unnatural to me.

Thanks again!

Curt

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#1554077 - 11/09/10 01:50 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Hello,

if you still have it: Is it possible to play repetitions without releasing the key fully? Say, with 50% or 30% releases?

Would be interested to know that.

Peter
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#1554145 - 11/09/10 05:53 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
I did that test when I had it, actually!! And no, it doesn't pass. A return to almost full was required before another note would be sounded.

Curt

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#1554149 - 11/09/10 06:24 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Thank you very much!
I had read this quite often, but never got confirmation.
This does probably not matter much in pop or jazz, but I dont think it is a good behavior for romantic and some classical piano solo pieces.

Might be, a skilled pianist with strong fingers can overcome this problem, but my fingers cannot...
Best

Peter


Edited by hpeterh (11/09/10 06:37 AM)
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#1554200 - 11/09/10 08:52 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 584
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Going onwards with the pedal research, what are the advantages of a continuous pedal?
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

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#1554209 - 11/09/10 09:17 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
If you look to the Youtube video that I posted above, it is explained and demonstrated there.


Edited by hpeterh (11/09/10 09:17 AM)
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