Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1541546 - 10/23/10 07:07 AM NUMA Nero Pedal Options
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
This has been difficult to find information about... I've been trying to find out if the Numa Nero has pedal support for una corda as well as damper. The reviews that I've seen show that it ships with a non-continuous pedal (perfect for una corda but unusable as a damper!). As a minimum, I need both and can do without sostenuto.

Does anyone have knowledge on the pedal and connection specs for this potentially amazing controller??

Thanks!
Curt

Top
(ad) Roland

Click Here

#1541560 - 10/23/10 07:31 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I have read the user manual and it says the pedals are configurable.
The sustain has a stereo plug and is configurable as continuous.

However I did not find details or continuous pedals offered by Fatar.

Peter
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1541571 - 10/23/10 08:07 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Thank you Peter! Curious if you could point me toward a link to download/read the manual?

This controller seems to be my EVERYTHING piano controller. Barring some construction issues that were reported early on, I think we finally have the controller we pianists have been waiting for.

Curt

Top
#1541576 - 10/23/10 08:16 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
http://www.numaworld.it/support.html
BTW, what I wrote above is given from memory. I am not free from erros. Please check it.

Best,

Peter


Edited by hpeterh (10/23/10 08:18 AM)
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1541589 - 10/23/10 08:42 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
You have good memory! Both jacks appear to be fully programmable as either continuous or as a switch and the polarity is also settable.

Hmm, a worthy $1200 investment!!

Curt

Top
#1541810 - 10/23/10 03:25 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
hpeterh, the specs list MIDI Out, but not MIDI In. Isn't a complete MIDI loup necessary?

Top
#1541825 - 10/23/10 03:43 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: FogVilleLad]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Sorry I dont have any of these keyboards.
I only readed the manuals.
I was interested in masterkeyboards and these dont need MIDI IN.
The Numapiano could need MIDI In, but I dont know if it has.

So far I have learned from other reviews, these keyboards are fine for POP Rock and Jazz but are not intended to simulate a classic grand and so I lost interest about them.

Peter


Edited by hpeterh (10/23/10 03:53 PM)
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1541869 - 10/23/10 04:49 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Understood.

Top
#1541909 - 10/23/10 05:34 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: FogVilleLad]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
There is no onboard sound on the Nero Numa so MIDI IN is pointless. I could see maybe a MIDI THRU for multi-board live rig setups, but I don't see that as the target demographic for this board. It's really obvious that it was made for piano players that use software sample libraries.

I'm grabbing one up tonite. I can comment back in a few days after I've had a day or two with it... if anyone is interested?

Curt

Top
#1541919 - 10/23/10 05:46 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: hpeterh
So far I have learned from other reviews, these keyboards are fine for POP Rock and Jazz but are not intended to simulate a classic grand.

Peter

I'm curious how you came to this opinion? They are nothing more than an amazing wooden-keyed weighted keyboard action... what makes that more geared toward POP R&J and not classic grand? That's kinda like saying that a Steinway is more for POP rock because Billy Joel plays one and Van Cliburn was totally wrong in choosing one! smile

Curt

Top
#1541944 - 10/23/10 06:26 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I have read users reviews on amazon and some musicstores and else, mostly in german language. I can impossibly give links to those all.

The other point is technical: The numa actions have their sensors connected to the key, not to the hammer. Some users report that the key must be released very much, before it is ready to play the next note. This makes it physically impossible to play pian(issim)o repetitions or thrills as it is sometimes required in classical repertoire.
I had never the possibility to try it myself, so be aware that is pure theory, but I have some experiences with other older keyboards.

Finally, the Fatar masterkeyboards have a special organ mode. So far I understand it, this means that the velocity is fixed and NoteOn/NoteOff is solely triggered by the upper (release) sensor. That is, how I understand it, I cannot swear it.
This feature is unique and probably most welcome for the band-keyboarder, but useless for a solo pianist.

All this said, this is speculation, I never could try it. If I get the chance to try it, then I will surely try it.

Best,

Peter


Edited by hpeterh (10/23/10 06:42 PM)
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1541951 - 10/23/10 06:37 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8393
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: hpeterh
he Fatar masterkeyboards have a special organ mode. So far I understand it, this means that the velocity is fixed and NoteOn/NoteOff is solely triggered by the upper (release) sensor.
...
This feature is unique and probably most welcome for the band-keyboarder, but useless for a solo pianist.


Actually, similar functionality is activated when using the MP6's tonewheel organ simulation.

</offtopic>

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1541954 - 10/23/10 06:41 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Good to know.
I think, this is On Topic very much.
Thanks.

Peter
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1552485 - 11/06/10 10:32 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: hpeterh
However I did not find details or continuous pedals offered by Fatar.

Peter


I got my NUMA today and while overall it is just what I've been looking for in a controller (there are two keys that are slightly off-level and almost touch each other), I'm afraid I may have to return it for the reason Peter noted here. I cannot find a continuous pedal that is compatible with this board. WHY do they make a keyboard that so closely emulates an acoustic grand and then give you a momentary sustain pedal??? WHY?

I've contacted Studiologic and hope to hear from them soon but in the meantime, has anyone had any success finding a continuous pedal that works with Studiologic (NUMA) boards?

TIA,
Curt

Top
#1552642 - 11/07/10 03:49 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
Qbert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 328
Loc: Italy
What about these?
_________________________
GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m

Top
#1552692 - 11/07/10 05:25 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I think you need the VFP 3-D.
http://www.fatar.com/pages/VFP3.htm

I have however, never seen these offered in a shop.

Possibly the Roland RPU-3 works.
http://www.rolandmusik.de/produkte/RPU-3/index.php

At least the plugs should fit in and somebody with basic electronic skills should be able to open the pedal and modify it for the NUMA Nero.

I personally however would not be reluctant to get the stand and pedal unit for the Kawai ES6. I love the design.
http://www.kawai.de/es6_de.htm
I am really shure, I could make this work, but I am a hard core modder ;-)





Peter



Edited by hpeterh (11/07/10 05:52 AM)
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1552705 - 11/07/10 06:11 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: Qbert]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: Qbert
What about these?


That's the first place I went looking for pedals... NONE of them are continuous - or appear to be based on their description). The NUMA ships with the VFP-1 (which is useless) and the description of the other two pedals there is the same.

I seem to remember having a pedal (non-Roland) a while back that had a continuous/momentary switch on the bottom... but I think I must have eBay'd that thing when I "went Roland"...

Curt

Top
#1552709 - 11/07/10 06:20 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Originally Posted By: hpeterh
I think you need the VFP 3-D.
http://www.fatar.com/pages/VFP3.htm

I have however, never seen these offered in a shop.

You think that their term "potentiometer control" is the same as continuous, hmm? That does sound promising...


Originally Posted By: hpeterh

Possibly the Roland RPU-3 works.
http://www.rolandmusik.de/produkte/RPU-3/index.php

At least the plugs should fit in and somebody with basic electronic skills should be able to open the pedal and modify it for the NUMA Nero.

Modify it HOW? Replace the switch with a pot?

Top
#1552711 - 11/07/10 06:38 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I think Fatar doesnt use the word "Continuous" they use the word "dynamic" instead.

They have continuous pedals I have seen it on a page that offered fatar replacement and DIY parts. (I dont have a link)

For the Roland pedal: I think there is a potentiometer inside and no active parts. This is the case for most continuous pedals. The sustain is continuous. It can be seen, because there is a stereo TRS connector and I know it from the Rolad FP7F description.

The "cold" tap should be connected with the sleeve and the cable screening and with frame ground of the keyboard.
The "Hot" tap might be connected with tip or ring.
and the slider tap of the potentiometer vice versa.

If "Hot","Slider" and "Cold" are resoldered to fit, this /should/ work. There is however no warranty. If I had the parts and could measure them, then I could say it for sure.

The middle and left pedal are switches and dont care because the NUMA is configurable.

Edit:
Look here: http://www.rolandmusik.de/produkte/RPU-3/images/RPU-3_1-big.jpg

It seems that all three pedals are continuous.

Edit again:
I know from various Fatar sites that they use potentiometers.
There is the other possibility to use LED's and photo resistors. I do however not believe, Roland uses these, else they would advertise the pedal as "Optical".



Peter


Edited by hpeterh (11/07/10 06:59 AM)
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1552785 - 11/07/10 09:45 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Another option would be the CME GPP3:
http://www.cme-pro.com/products-list/product-gpp.html

It can be seen in use here:

So far I know it is not longer produced, but still in stock.
A lot of people complain about firmware problems and bad quality control, but the design is very sturdy and those that got a good unit are happy with it.
Because it has USB and MIDI it works with any Masterkeyboard.

Peter
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1552830 - 11/07/10 10:37 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
Thanks for all the options Peter! I remember all of the quality issues with this CME pedal. I also remember Garritan was going to offer this pedal at a discount for people that bought his Garritan Steinway and then the offer just evaporated at the same time the pedal was discontinued!

FATAR/Studiologic really came up short here. Why they advertise the perfect pedal (VFP3-D) and never make it available for sale is just bad and wrong.

Curt

Top
#1553674 - 11/08/10 02:24 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 569
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I don't know much about MIDI, curt... but what about this?

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodped.htm
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

Top
#1553696 - 11/08/10 03:01 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: Strat]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Give me the service manual of all this devices or at least reasonable and true technical short data and pin assignments and I can tell if it will work or how to make it work ;-)

Reasonably, this box costs money and a continuous pedal costs money and the NUMA obviously has a continuous pedal input and this box has special requirements for power over MIDI and is reported not to work with the NUMA NANO, I expect more technical problems to be created than to be solved.

Of course if a keyboard has no (proportional) pedal input then this should be the solution.....

See here:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=94

It seems there are fatar fedals out that are continuous but are not advertised as such, because the dealers and advertising writers dont understand the technics.

Why dont they publish a rudimentary but correct diagramm and pin assignments? That would tell all.

Possibly this helps:

Google search fatar vfp3 d

This is the VFP3 2D inside:


Found here:
http://www.doepfer.de/we.htm

Possibly they can deliver it?
I bet the roland pedal has the same interior but possibly 3 potis...


Edited by hpeterh (11/08/10 03:35 PM)
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1553768 - 11/08/10 05:06 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
I did a little bit research.

The Numa Nero permits only 2 pedals. It has only 2 plugs for pedals. That is what most people report.

You already have one nonproportional pedal. So you need a second proportional single pedal and mount both on a board.

Either a single Roland pedal or a Yamaha pedal should work. So the problem is which of them works....
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1553913 - 11/08/10 08:23 PM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
I appreciate all of your research! But I sent back the NUMA. The action was just too synth-like for me. Very heavy and the key would actually push your finger back up! VERY fast rise on the keys... seemed very unnatural to me.

Thanks again!

Curt

Top
#1554077 - 11/09/10 01:50 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Hello,

if you still have it: Is it possible to play repetitions without releasing the key fully? Say, with 50% or 30% releases?

Would be interested to know that.

Peter
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1554145 - 11/09/10 05:53 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: hpeterh]
curt88 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 346
I did that test when I had it, actually!! And no, it doesn't pass. A return to almost full was required before another note would be sounded.

Curt

Top
#1554149 - 11/09/10 06:24 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
Thank you very much!
I had read this quite often, but never got confirmation.
This does probably not matter much in pop or jazz, but I dont think it is a good behavior for romantic and some classical piano solo pieces.

Might be, a skilled pianist with strong fingers can overcome this problem, but my fingers cannot...
Best

Peter


Edited by hpeterh (11/09/10 06:37 AM)
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
#1554200 - 11/09/10 08:52 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
Strat Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 569
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Going onwards with the pedal research, what are the advantages of a continuous pedal?
_________________________
Started playing in mid-June 2007. Self-taught... for now. :p

Top
#1554209 - 11/09/10 09:17 AM Re: NUMA Nero Pedal Options [Re: curt88]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
If you look to the Youtube video that I posted above, it is explained and demonstrated there.


Edited by hpeterh (11/09/10 09:17 AM)
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Blüthner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
138 registered (ADWyatt, Alkanaut, 36251, accordeur, Almaviva, 44 invisible), 1439 Guests and 50 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74256 Members
42 Forums
153602 Topics
2251233 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Action regulating
by pater57
04/20/14 08:59 AM
Kurzweil SP5-8 as main studio keyboard/stage piano
by Barty
04/20/14 08:33 AM
Greg Pauley in Concert June 1st, Sunday 3:30pm
by Larry Buck
04/20/14 07:58 AM
Happy Easter!
by Marko in Boston
04/20/14 06:58 AM
Easter Themed Recordings - Kawai CA95
by wolferblade
04/20/14 04:55 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission