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#1557332 - 11/14/10 08:06 AM Archery and Piano
vladimiroir Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 192
Hello, would playing archery(recurve bow) bring ill effects to piano playing?
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#1557345 - 11/14/10 08:31 AM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
Gerard12 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 763
Loc: South Carolina
If you consider yourself to be relaxed and coordinated, and are hyper-aware of the interplay between the larger and smaller muscle groups, then really: No physical activity should interfere with your ability to play the piano.

(On the mental side, the concentration it takes to do certain activities well might just just help you at the instrument.....)


Edited by Gerard12 (11/14/10 08:46 AM)
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#1557352 - 11/14/10 09:11 AM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
Mati Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 1276
Loc: Lodz, Poland
As long as you have proper technique employed during the shooting (one that won't damage your wrists), I can't see how it could. It's not particularly dangerous to your hands.

I've never been a pro archer, but have enjoyed archery a lot as a pastime for years without problem.

Having said that, I'd be glad for some input too! Maybe there's something serious I do not know about and I should.


M.
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#1557356 - 11/14/10 09:24 AM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: Mati]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: Mati
As long as you have proper technique employed during the shooting (one that won't damage your wrists), I can't see how it could. It's not particularly dangerous to your hands.

I've never been a pro archer, but have enjoyed archery a lot as a pastime for years without problem.

Having said that, I'd be glad for some input too! Maybe there's something serious I do not know about and I should.


M.


What about the fingertips? Surely there must be some pretty huge forces supported there- very much on the tendons that operate the last two joints. That would be surely be greater than any force they'd support at a piano? I'm not generally the "ooh be careful" type, but I could certainly see that archery could be one of the more risky things- and could very well cause a lot of strength imbalance between different fingers.
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#1557357 - 11/14/10 09:26 AM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Interesting question... It should be fine. I think they make protective wear for fingers (and forearms... You don't want the string of the bow scraping across your tender forearm at super-high speeds! Can we say OUCH?

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#1557384 - 11/14/10 10:14 AM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: vladimiroir
Hello, would playing archery(recurve bow) bring ill effects to piano playing?


Only if you shoot yourself in the eye.
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#1557467 - 11/14/10 11:33 AM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
Arghhh Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 1165
Quick google search for "archery injury" gave me this information:

Injury reports relate to overuse or damage of muscles and tendons of the upper limb relating to the shoulder, elbow, wrist and finger joints. By far the most frequently injured area is the shoulder. A small number of reports relate to direct trauma. It has been surprizing to note that only under half of those reporting injury seek help from a physiotherapist.

A breakdown of injury reports gives the following results -

Shoulder injuries (including rotator cuff) 47%
Elbow injuries (common flexor & extensor tendon origin problems) 17%
Wrist injuries 12%
Finger injuries 6%
Back injuries 5%
Forearm injuries 4%
Other injuries 9%

Reports have been received from archers in 20 different countries the majority being from archers in the USA, Canada and the United Kingdom.

From the survey we conclude that the majority of injuries in archery involve joints in the upper limb and are related the repetitive nature of the action of drawing a bow.
(from http://www.qsl.net/gi4fum/page5.html)

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#1557470 - 11/14/10 11:40 AM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Interesting. I'd consider though- from a pianist's point of view, what might consistute a finger "injury" might be rather different than from a non-pianist's point of view. Even if it doesn't result in what's technically classed as an injury, the level of work that is placed on the tendons of the two specific fingers could easily create problems with sensitivity.
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#1557785 - 11/14/10 07:30 PM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
thalbergmad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 181
Loc: England
Long term use with bows of heavy draw weight can cause problems, as is evident from many of the skeletons recovered from the Mary Rose.

If you leave the 150lb warbows alone, I cannot see how archery would be a problem to the piano playing mechanism.

Thal
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I'm inclined to agree with Thal

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#1559254 - 11/16/10 08:54 PM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: Orange Soda King]
Little_Blue_Engine Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1236
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Interesting question... It should be fine. I think they make protective wear for fingers (and forearms... You don't want the string of the bow scraping across your tender forearm at super-high speeds! Can we say OUCH?
Yes, I did. Quite loudly. And whined about it for a while afterwards, too! eek
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Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


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#1559266 - 11/16/10 09:10 PM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: thalbergmad]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: thalbergmad
Long term use with bows of heavy draw weight can cause problems, as is evident from many of the skeletons recovered from the Mary Rose.

If you leave the 150lb warbows alone, I cannot see how archery would be a problem to the piano playing mechanism.

Thal


Roughly what is the force that the fingers would bear with a normal bow? Compared to piano playing, I can't help but think that it must be a pretty hefty amount to balance on the tendons of two extremely curled up finger tips. To be honest, I'd be a hell of a lot more worried by that than many other sports. I do weight training regularly but I'd certainly be a little apprehensive about something that depends so heavily on supporting large forces with those tendons. Supporting even a modestly heavy bag of shopping on those particular joints is certainly a terrible idea. I'm far more comfortable with picking up a 15kg dumbbell using a proper grip, than a couple of kgs of shopping on the very tips. Wouldn't a bow involve rather greater forces than a bag of shopping?
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#1559453 - 11/17/10 05:59 AM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
motif Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 215
Originally Posted By: vladimiroir
Hello, would playing archery(recurve bow) bring ill effects to piano playing?


as long as you don't aim at your piano teacher, no.

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#1559489 - 11/17/10 08:18 AM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: motif]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5282
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: motif
Originally Posted By: vladimiroir
Hello, would playing archery(recurve bow) bring ill effects to piano playing?


as long as you don't aim at your piano teacher, no.


Replacing a teacher could be an improvement. smile
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#1560291 - 11/18/10 04:05 PM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: Nyiregyhazi]
thalbergmad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 181
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Nyiregyhazi

Roughly what is the force that the fingers would bear with a normal bow? Compared to piano playing, I can't help but think that it must be a pretty hefty amount to balance on the tendons of two extremely curled up finger tips.


Draw weights vary considerably from junior bows to heavy traditional bows. I have only used longbows myself and use a leather tab or glove which protects the 3 fingers that are used. If you are only using a 40lb bow, that is not a vast force to support with 3 well protected fingers.

Cannot comment on shopping bags as I have never lifted one. That is why we have wifes and girlfriends.

Thal
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I'm inclined to agree with Thal

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#1560317 - 11/18/10 05:08 PM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: thalbergmad]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8926
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: thalbergmad

Cannot comment on shopping bags as I have never lifted one. That is why we have wifes and girlfriends.
Thal

Knowing you well from two other boards, I hope others will appreciate your sense of humour as much as I do! laugh

Welcome, btw... (yet you seemed to have registered here before I did)
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#1560371 - 11/18/10 07:29 PM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: thalbergmad]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
Originally Posted By: thalbergmad

Draw weights vary considerably from junior bows to heavy traditional bows. I have only used longbows myself and use a leather tab or glove which protects the 3 fingers that are used. If you are only using a 40lb bow, that is not a vast force to support with 3 well protected fingers.


How much protection does the tab offer? Surely it's basically just to stop skin abrasion and for better grip? Can that really do anything to protect tendons? 40lbs (18kg) sounds like a truly colossal amount to bear on the very tips of the fingers! I could stretch myself to lifting a dumbbell of that mass with a proper grip, but I wouldn't even want to bear the force of 5kgs of shopping on the very ends of my fingers.
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#1560788 - 11/19/10 02:38 PM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
ninjapianist92 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 29
I've been a recurve archer for 8 years, and I've never had any injuries. (Besides the occasional whacking myself with the string. Owwww.....)

I think as long as you have a good coach who knows what they are doing, you should be fine. My dad is a certified archery coach, and he constantly stresses how if you use the right muscles, you really can be very relaxed while drawing a bow. (For an example - you are supposed to use the big muscles in your back, not the muscles in your shoulder and arm to draw a bow)

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#1560835 - 11/19/10 04:05 PM Re: Archery and Piano [Re: vladimiroir]
Nyiregyhazi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 2464
interesting. I wouldn't want to risk it myself, as I'd be too scared of losing sensitivity in the tendons, even if it didn't result in specific injury. However, i'll take your word that it can be done. It certainly reinforces what a bunch of sissies those who are too scared to stabilise the mere weight of a relaxed arm are. I wonder if maybe the straightening tendons are rather weaker than those that act inward. They do say that those who play with the most curled fingers are the most prone- and this often forces straightening actions in the finger, rather than curling. If the inward tendons can balance such a huge force in archery, it certainly makes you wonder why it might be an issue in piano playing.
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