Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
72 registered (AZNpiano, AnimistFvR, beethovenop54, Anticlock, 17 invisible), 1113 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#1557606 - 11/14/10 03:11 PM practicing scales Q
KurtZ Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 966
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
Hi,

Is there an advantage to playing the tonic note at the top of a scale a second time before going back down?

Just curious about this. I tend to do it both ways depending on the day and wondered if there's an advantage to one way or the other. My teacher has never expressed a preference.

Kurt


Edited by KurtZ (11/14/10 03:15 PM)
Edit Reason: missed an apostrophe
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1557626 - 11/14/10 03:39 PM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: KurtZ]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2913
Sure, each way can have its benefits. I think most pianists practice scales without repeating the top note, because on the piano it's clumsy and inconvenient to replay that note. On some other instruments, the custom is the opposite, because on THOSE instruments it's clumsy and inconvenient if you DON'T.

It would be easy to create sophisticated rationalizations for this, but I think the convenience factor is the truth, and everything else just made-up stories.
_________________________
(I'm a piano teacher.)

Top
#1557645 - 11/14/10 04:22 PM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: KurtZ]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
David, I don't know about sophisticated rationalizations, but I always thought it had to do with rhythm. When playing 16th notes, repeating the top note just isn't very smooth. There are 7 groups of 4 going up, and again, 7 groups of 4 coming down. Adding an extra top note would royally screw up the rhythm, don't you feel?
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1557669 - 11/14/10 05:13 PM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: KurtZ]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2913
The rhythm of repeating the top note works fine for violinists all over the world. It's just fingering convenience/bowing convenience/whatever.
_________________________
(I'm a piano teacher.)

Top
#1557720 - 11/14/10 06:26 PM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: KurtZ]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7410
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
I wasn't aware that violinists did that. I never did. Well I did for one octave scales, but don't recall doing it for higher octaves. Now I'll have to pull out my Galamian tapes and check it out. Perhaps we extended the top note to fill out the beat.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Top
#1557772 - 11/14/10 07:10 PM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: John v.d.Brook]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11810
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: John v.d.Brook
I wasn't aware that violinists did that. I never did. Well I did for one octave scales, but don't recall doing it for higher octaves. Now I'll have to pull out my Galamian tapes and check it out. Perhaps we extended the top note to fill out the beat.

In the RCM technical book, as of gr. 6 the top note isn't repeated, and that is when 3 octave scales start. The way they pull it off in groups of four involves the way it starts. for G major: GBAG.... or G (quarter) AB ... (eight), or GAGABC.....


Edited by keystring (11/14/10 07:10 PM)

Top
#1557902 - 11/14/10 10:21 PM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: KurtZ]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2913
Perhaps my violin scales experience has been limited to the one-octave variety. I play a mean Happy Farmer. Mean, as in approximate. smile

In any case, it would be very easy to re-jig the rhythm of scales to just about anything we like, on either instrument.
_________________________
(I'm a piano teacher.)

Top
#1557909 - 11/14/10 10:30 PM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: keystring]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5966
Loc: Down Under
When I was doing 3-octave scales (violin & viola) they were grouped in 3s (the requirement for the exams I did), which meant the top note was neither repeated nor elongated.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1558196 - 11/15/10 11:20 AM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: KurtZ]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3243
Loc: Virginia, USA
There is a fingering rule that says always play repeated notes with a change of finger.

If you apply that rule to the scale (and yes, there are people who think scales teach fingering) then I think you will get some interesting results.

Personally I like doing them turning around, with one longer note at the bottom. First note is a quarter, then eighths up and back down to the tonic and up to re which is a quarter, then up and down on eighths, etc. Like the wind instruments do. Takes you through all the modes.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top
#1558227 - 11/15/10 12:14 PM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: TimR]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11810
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: TimR

Personally I like doing them turning around, with one longer note at the bottom. First note is a quarter, then eighths up and back down to the tonic and up to re which is a quarter, then up and down on eighths, etc. Like the wind instruments do. Takes you through all the modes.

Cool! I have to try this! cool

Top
#1558250 - 11/15/10 12:51 PM Re: practicing scales Q [Re: keystring]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3243
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: TimR

Personally I like doing them turning around, with one longer note at the bottom. First note is a quarter, then eighths up and back down to the tonic and up to re which is a quarter, then up and down on eighths, etc. Like the wind instruments do. Takes you through all the modes.

Cool! I have to try this! cool


That's straight out of the Arbans.
_________________________
gotta go practice

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!

Happy Thanksgiving!
Happy Thanksgiving!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Black Friday is here - Seen any deals?
by MeghanM
11/28/14 01:16 AM
MIDI in on a Kawai VPC-1...
by pocoapoco
11/28/14 12:35 AM
Just joined
by wise_manzard
11/27/14 10:20 PM
LACHNIT MK22
by Vas
11/27/14 09:27 PM
You Usually Get what you Pay for in this World.......
by Paul678
11/27/14 08:22 PM
Forum Stats
77071 Members
42 Forums
159411 Topics
2341686 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission