Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Bechstein A1 and Schimmel 130T - need help deciding between

We are considering purchase of our first upright acoustic piano for my son who has been taking lessons for about an year. We visited local Piano stores and have narrowed down our options to 2010 Bechstien A1 and 2010 Schimmel 130T. We heard both pianos for a few minutes and they both sounded good. I, myself, am not a Piano player and do not know a whole lot about acoustic Pianos other than whatever I may have gleaned by browsing through Larry Fine's piano book. I have a few specific questions to the experts on this forum.

If you were to buy Piano for your child, which one would you choose among the two, if they both were being offered at more or less same price? and what would be the reason for your choice?

Also, what price would you pay for each of these Pianos? I do ( and most of you would) believe that the top factor for evaluating a piano would be the music it can produce. However, since I am not 100% certain if my son will maintain interest in playing Piano in long term, I will have to factor in the financial aspect also in the decision making. So the next specific question is, will one of these Pianos hold better value than the other over say next 10 years?

Thanks

Siddharth

I would expect there to still be a fairly significant price difference between the two. If the prices are close, then I would definitely go for the Schimmel - the retail difference between the 2 is about $8k. The Schimmel uses a Renner action and hammers while the Bechstein uses a Czech action (perhaps Detoa?) which accounts for some cost. You'd have to look to see what hammer the Bechstein uses, but they specify Renner or Abel. The Schimmel is a little larger, but not tremendously. The 130T was our second best selling model upright from Schimmel. I really don't have anything critical to say about either. I certainly like the Schimmel uprights we represent, but at most, I've played that model of Bechstein only once or twice.

As for resale, I'd say it partially depends on your market. In some areas, Schimmel is better known, Bechstein in others.

Good luck in your search.

Well I am a great fan of both uprights. I also think the Bechstein would cost significantly more than the Schimmel. If you like them about the same I'd let price be the determining factor. I have a preference for the Bechstein tone however. I've played a number of the Bechstein A1s and thought the action was excellent, with it being very even and controllable, light and fast. The tone of the Bechstein A1 rivaled the C.Bechstein Concert 8 which is thought by many to be the best upright in the world.

I don't know what the current prices are for these instruments. There has been a 2005 Bechstein A1 on eBay for quite some time. Link below. Good luck.

Rich

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&...chstein+a1&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Of course, I'm probably biased... (see signature), but I found the A1 and the 130T almost equally appealing, and somewhat similar-- though the prices were not.

Personally, I thought the Concert 8 blew them both away (particularly the sound)...and it should considering the significant price difference, but that's not your question.

Both the uprights you're considering would be more than adequate for any beginner; many professionals don't get to practice on an instrument that nice.

Assuming you're in the US, I don't think the resale value argument is particularly excellent with either, as many people here don't know about the nicer European makers, and tall uprights are not exactly the most popular size or type of piano (perceived prestige of having a "baby grand" instead, though that's debatable) sold here.

If I had to pick between the two for my (hypothetical) child, assuming the price were similar, I'd choose the individual example with the better sound and feel. That varies slightly from instrument to instrument, and based on the quality of prep work that went into making the piano show its best at the dealer.

Knowing that my child hasn't made a long-term commitment to playing piano yet, I may be inclined to be more pragmatic and find a relatively recent used example of either which I liked (and passed a thorough tech inspection).

I think I Schimmel that I saw for the same price in the store was C 124T model and not 130T. Would you still consider Schimmel C 124T a better buy than Bechstein A, if they are available at the same price?

Another question for you. Is there a significant difference in the quality of Schimmel C 124 and Schimmel K 125? If so, what are those differences and how much more would one be expected to pay to buy K125 over the price of C124?

Thanks for your question on Bechstein hammer. I don't know the answer. I will have to get that question answered from the dealer.

I guess the reason I am considering a nicer piano is because I am hoping that with a nice Piano at home my 8 yr old will stay committed to learning and playing Piano for a long time. Also, hopefully in near future I will be able to get my 4 yr old started with learning Piano.

The Schimmel Piano that was getting at the same price as Bechstein A1 was C124 model and not C130. Would that input make a difference if you were to decide between A1 and C124?

I owned a Bechstein A1 for several years and really loved it. The only reason I don't have it now is that I wanted to upgrade to a grand piano.
I play piano for a living and the Bechstein easily fulfilled all my musical needs. I'm certain that the same can be said about any of Schimmel's uprights as well.
You say you've read Larry Fine's Piano Buyer so you obviously know that they are both very high quality instruments.
You can't go wrong with either piano (especially for a beginner). Most of what you will get here is subjective opinions which are highly individual.
The only objective advice you can really expect regarding these two uprights is that they are both great so the responsibility is yours to choose which one is best for you and your family.
Concerns about which hammers or actions are used in these pianos should be the least of your concerns. They are both excellent. Expensive uprights are generally difficult to sell second hand. I wouldn't be concerned with resale value with a purchase like this. Both would be difficult to sell and you'll take a big hit financially selling either one.
If you're not sure whether you'll have a need for this piano in several years (ie. lost interest and not being played) rather than considering which piano will have a better resale value, maybe consider buying a cheaper upright and upgrading to a better one later if your child sticks with it. A beginner is nowhere near capable of telling the difference between a $3,500 Kohler and Campbell upright and a $20,000 Bechstein upright. So why buy a high end upright if it might end up being a waste of money and a hassle to sell?

The eternal quest for the top upright is an old one.

IMHO, the Germans have long cornered this particular market: every company there makes real fabulous upright pianos.

Last summer I played some knock-out Bechsteins in Berlin, but of course there is all the other ones out there as well....

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/IMG_1265.JPG

When you think how much joy such piano can give you, price is often a second concern.

It sure was in my own case....[ Sauter Vista]

By shopping around, you'll hopefully get the feel of things.

Unfortunately nobody including me, could give a precise or even approximate figure how much you should spend on such special purchase.

Perhaps find a dealer who recognizes your enthusiasm and is willing to *act* a bit upon it.

Making things hopefully a little easier for you.....

Good luck!

Norbert

I agree 100%, your kids will not be able to discern expensive piano from inexpensive one.
Most kids will quit within several years.

On Thanks Giving day, I played two Yamaha U1s at my friend houses. Both are about 1 year old. I was so impressed with the sound and the action. If I were you, I would buy either Yamaha or Kawai. It will be easy to sell in case your kids quit (again, 70% your kids will quit).

I didn't realize how much these pianos cost. I would not spend that kind of money on an upright piano when a good used grand piano is within reach; unless I was in the position of being both rather well-off and living in a very very small place.

I commend you on wanting to purchase a nice upright for your children to learn on. I think it most important that, yes, even at a young age and being beginner piano students, that they should learn to appreciate the best tone possible. (teacher hat is on!)

And why buy a cheaper version only to upgrade as needed?

Need another reason? You will also be listening to this piano being practiced on for many years!!!

I've played many an upright, and both makes mentioned are respected for enjoyment and resale.

This is not to say that if you had asked about a Yamaha U3, I would not support that, but there IS a difference?

Now put into the mix, a Grotrian or Sauter, I would also support that choice as well!

Are you in USA or Europe?

Expensive and good piano will not make your kids want to play more. If they do not like playing piano, no piano will rectify the problem. It will be cheaper to upgrade later, then get stuck with an expensive UPRIGHT. Very few people will be willing to pay USED upright more than $10,000. Or any USED piano over $10K is hard to sale.

The chance of kids playing piano up to advance level is very unlikely. I used to teach at the biggest music school in CA, from my observation two years to three years are the typical duration for kids to take piano lesson, of course, very few stay. Unless, you are really wanting to have an expensive furniture at home, I really do not suggest you to buy expensive piano.

It is different for adult who love to play, they usually do not change their mind anymore. Once they love it, they will not quit so that it is worth spending money on an expensive piano since they are going to play everyday.

Let us know in three years, whether your kids still take piano lesson or not. I hope they will, but do not be surprised if they don't.

i don't understand why you think it's unlikely that the children in question won't become advanced?

Because anyone with a moderate level of teaching experience has seen many students come and go and realizes, as Ronald states, that MOST kids quit after a couple of years. It's just a fact of life. Kids try out a lot of different things. How many kids play little league baseball or hockey? How many are now in the major league or NHL.
I think it's perfectly rational advice to caution a parent against spending a lot of money on something that is very difficult to resell before their child has even had a lesson.
Everyone here loves a good piano hunt story (especially when it's someone willing to spend A LOT of money) But I'm sorry, I think it's irresponsible to recommend Sauters, Grotrians and Bechstein uprights to someone who is largely concerned with resale and whether or not their child (the only one who will likely play the instrument) will even take to the instrument. How many of you who recommend these luxury instruments to people are willing to help the poor sucker 5 years down the road when they are trying to sell an upright that no one wants to buy?

There is a lower limit, where a poorly-maintained or poorly-built piano causes lack of interest. But when a decent piano is working properly, has a good sound, and is kept in tune, it is enough.

The only thing these high-priced uprights are good for is beautiful professional performances in tiny rooms. That doesn't happen very often.

If money is no object, then buy a good grand.

Spending money on an excellent teacher who knows how to teach piano well is a better option to retain your kids to learn piano longer.

But again, if your kids really do not like to play piano, there is nothing you can do. You can force them, but they will go nowhere.

There are even many kids who were good at the beginning, and suddenly, when they hit 12 years old, they totally wanted to quit from playing piano. They even do not want to touch piano at all.

I think it is wise to wait. Make sure that you kids really like to play piano, and then buy the whatever best brand that you can afford.

It is totally irrational to buy expensive piano at the beginning of your kids endeavor to learn how to play the piano. Unless, you know, for sure, that somebody will play, or you just want to use it as a furniture. You know that a beautiful piano looks good in a big house. If you cannot play, at least, you look classy...:)

RonaldSteinway,

I am not exactly disagreeing with you, but it is the attitude that you are communicating which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for kids quitting piano.

One person's "expensive" can be another's inexpensive or even drop in the bucket. And a beautiful piano looks good in a small house too.

Thank you all for your input. I do agree that having a good Piano teacher is important and my son is taking lessons with a really good teacher. One fo the reasons for considering these two Pianos (Bechstein A1 and Schimmel C124) is that I am getting a really good deal on them (about 12K each). I am thinking if the kids continue playing and learning Piano, I may not have to upgrade any of these two Pianos at least for next 10 years. Even if I have to sell them 10 yrs down the road I may be able to recover 8K to 10K from it. I don't know if I will be able to get the same deal on these Pianos 3 yrs from now when I will really find out if the kids will maintain their interest in Piano or not. Till then as someone suggested they will have a nice instrument to play.

Keith,

You have no credibility in this matter. You make a living from selling piano.

Ron