Hi everyone.

I'm almost finished working on this piece but still have a few nagging issues.

First, one passage in the coda is giving me a lot of trouble. I think it may be because the suggested fingering is rather odd. Here's the passage with the questionable fingering circled:



I'm thinking of using my second finger for the F# I circled. However, I can't play this part of the coda at full tempo yet and am worried that my fingering may be ineffective at a higher tempo. What fingering do you guys use?

My second issue is with the descending passages in the B theme. I find myself often rushing at the end and often muddle or skip the last few notes.

Any suggestions on how to eliminate this problem? I've tried doubling the lengths of these passages when I play them but to no avail.

Last, the third descending passage (the one with only black keys) in the D-flat section is giving me all sorts of problems. Any ideas on how to approach this passage?

Also, if you have any other thoughts on this piece or suggestions for working on it, please share them!

I also use my 2nd finger where you put circles. The 'stardust' figuration is one of the main problems of the piece, just take your time, hands apart, slow tempi, good fingering, time, time, time, good luck!

I have always used the marked fingering and I would think that it's the best fingering for most people, but of course feel free to use a different one. I wonder, though, if the problem isn't the fingering but something about how you are positioning the hand at that point.

About those descending passages: I think the key thing is just to be sure you are extremely consciously aware that the two hands are flapping in opposite directions in terms of the "anatomy" (details upon request) -- they are in conflict, sort of working against each other. It seems as if they're flapping in the same direction, but anatomically it's the opposite, and IMO that's what makes it hard for many people. Once you realize this, you have a much better chance to get it -- and the difference may be dramatic.

One of my teachers pointed this out at a master class. This issue doesn't seem to be commonly identified, and I'm surprised that it isn't.

At first glance, the marked fingering looks like the best to take, but I would also try using 2 instead to see what it's like.

For the middle section, maybe practice without pedal and practice the notes a little more articulated.

.....will hardly help someone who's having trouble unless they realize that other thing!

What other thing?

What I explained in my 1st reply....

Oh, positioning your hands correctly?

No, that was about the fingering of the 1st thing.
Your post was about the 2nd thing -- i.e. the descending passages in the "B theme" (what you called the middle section).
(It wasn't really unclear, was it?)

OH, I see now! That's what makes things like this, this, and this, hard. (That is, unless you do this for the last example, hehe. And this seems to be one of your favorite videos, Mark!)

Try practicing the descending passages as two-note solid chords in each hand, hands together; then play them as broken chords in alternating rhythms, short-long, long-short and finally in groups of uneven numbers (3-note group - pause; and 5-note group - pause) so that you "land" on different fingers each time.

Regards.

Great examples! (although I don't know the Ginastera....I'm taking your word.)

And about the Alkan: not really, because most of us would have trouble even just doing one hand alone!

Not if you take it Alkan's tempo (160... Everyone else is pushing it, except the example I gave you!)

Unless you have small hands, because some reaches are pretty gnarly.

But yes, the Ginastera is mostly in parallel motion, like the other two examples.

Haochen Zhang's performance of the entire sonata was ridiculous...

But now, my next question is this: Which way of flopping your hand is harder? Thumb-outer fingers with thumb on downbeat, or outer fingers-thumb with outer finger on downbeat? Because I have another interesting find:

I looked (for fun) at both Chopin's Winter Wind, and Godowsky's study on it. The main descending patterns in the Chopin are tricky, but they're actually easier in the Godowsky while using the left hand, because the THUMB is the primary finger playing the strong beats, whereas in the Chopin, the OUTER fingers are playing the strong beats.

(Now, we won't discuss the other parts of the etudes, hehe!)

For me, it's the opposite of how it is for you! The latter is easier (in either hand), because it puts what is usually the more melodic note of each pair on the stronger part of the beat.

But anyway, the difficulty of either thing is nothing compared to the difficulty of both hands doing it in parallel motion.

Exactly, because one is doing one, and the other is doing the other. (How specific!)

There's a section like this in the Ravel Concerto...

Thanks for the suggestion. I really like this drill.


Also, I practiced on an acoustic piano today and noticed that it was much easier to play the downward runs. For the past week, I've been playing on a digital piano with plastic keys. They tend to be much more slippery than the synthetic ivory keys found on most acoustic pianos.

What do you guys think of Claudio Arrau's performance of Scherzo 3? (Link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_AinFMb8z8 )

He plays the downward runs at a much slower tempo than does any other pianist I've heard, and I'm sure his tempo would be more manageable for me. (Incidentally, I don't care for his slower tempo!)

What fingering do you guys use for the ascending octave passage at the end of the piece? I've heard this is one of the toughest sections in the piece and want to get some input on fingering before settling on one.