I think the MP10 sound will be very similar to the CA93 when using headphones. So does anyone have anything to say about the CA93 AP vs Roland SN AP?

Maybe the Roland SN sounds wonderfull in the shop but after owning it for a month small artefacts will become obvious and all of the sudden the CA93 will sound much better :-) I know this is very subjective but still I would appreciate to hear some points of views.

Been in the shops and playing DPs a lot lately, and my impression is that

Roland has the better keyboard action
Kawai has the better AP sound
Roland has the better EP sound

JH.

May I ask which DPs were you playing?

Interesting how different opinions on this are:

My impression is that

Kawai has the better keyboard action
Roland (although it's not my preferred sound signature) has technically better AP sound
I don't care for EP sound

RE: the Roland EPs (SN), from what little I have heard, it sounded to me like the very beginning of the attacks were missing. (has anyone else noticed that?)

Greg.

Yes interested in that too since this is the complete opposite of the combined 1000+ post of 700NX and Kawai threads. Personal opinion I know but still.

My own experience is the Roland AP in 700GX without SN sounded mellow and not that great, action was so-so. CA93 (which is almost the same as mp10) was really good. HP307 (which should almost be the same as FP-7F) blew me away. Both were good but hp307 connected better with the sound (no idea why). Then I heard the action of 700GX and HP307 (PHAII vs PHAIII) is technically almost identical so back at square one. If it's the SN thats making hp307 feel better I have no clue.

FP-7F in my ears and fingers win slightly over mp10 thanks to the better connection. But both are really good and have similar mellow aproach.

I played about everything that was in the two big shops (Musikhalle Klier and Musikhaus Thomann).

I started with Kawai ES6 (piano sound ok, keyboard action terible), tried MP5 and MP8 (i.e. not the new stuff yet), an dthen the home pianos, because they have the latest actions already. The action of CA63 was dissappointing. The action of the CA93 is much better. I expected a lot from this one, because of the long wooden keys. It's quite good, but still in a different (speak: lower) class than Roland's PHA 3 action.

Roland: FP-4 has a horrible action. I mean, I would have called this "decent" some years ago, but others are far better now. FP-7 (old model - thats's PHA 2, I think?) is quite good. But the V-Piano and HP307 are simply the best piano-like actions I had under my fingers yet. Better than most actions of real upright pianos I found in the same showroom.

I also liked the action of the Yamaha CP-5 and CP-1. This came as a surprise, because I don't like the feel of Yamaha's Upright pianos, or Yamaha's older stage and home piano models. In direct comparison, the Roland PHA 3 is considerably better, though.

I didn't make a direct (as in walking back and forward between) comparison between CP-5 and Kawai, though.

All this is highly subjective, of course, and mainly tells you which type of keybaord action *I* like: As far from "springy" as possible, i.e. the weight being a dynamic load and not a static load for the fingers.

As for the sound, I'm probably accustomed to the Kawai sound (my previous model is a Kawai), which I'd describe as "round and balanced", whereas Roland is more on the bright side, and if it's set darker (closing that virtual lid), it also becomes less direct. But I think sound is something I get accustomed to (neither of them sounds like a Bösendörfer), but action is very important to me.

I'm leaning very much to the upcoming FP-7F (asuming it has that very keyboard action), and I hope they have implemented at least one decent Rhodes sound (nothing such on the HP307 !).

JH.

Not having a dual voice mode like the CA93/CA63, I'm curious how far the MP10 AP's can be tweaked. I'd have to compare directly with the FP-7F during a playing session in a music store. So, no conclusion yet from my side.

I took the plunge on a black FP-7F yesterday. Should have it end November or shortly after I'd hope. I'll get my friend to play something and I'll record the output of the machine at 24bit using my RME Fireface and upload it somewhere for people to get an idea on the quality. I'm quite happy to record using a specific midi file people may want to hear (and I mean the people i am familiar with on this forum only so no general request from random people from around the internet thx!!). I'll do a review once I've had a play around with it!!

Regards. Rimmer

Congrats Rimmer. I see most UK online stores are showing w/c 26/11 as having the FP-7F available. May I ask which store and the price? Please PM me if you don't want to disclose that publicly at this time.

PM'd

Congrats Rimmer - I shall look forward to reading your review!

Cheers,
James
x

Thx James. Hopefully it'll be as I'm expecting. Been a confusing road getting to the point of making my decision. It was partly based on company discount from a shop the studio uses. I was hoping they did Kawai as the MP10 was becoming very attractive. Sadly not.. Everyone has been very helpful here. It's one of the best Internet music forums I've joined. Well done to everyone for that!!!

After going through a lot of audio clips from the HP307 and CA93 I came to a very annoying conclusion. I think I like the tonal character of the Kawai better because it's more held back and clinical. But at the same time it sounds a bit dead, especially in the decay. The Roland has much more life and the decay is brilliant but the tonal character seems a bit over the top, like it's trying to sound too cool

But in the end I thought "just make a decision, damnit!" and decided to stay with the Roland order. FP-7F arriving in end of November if I'm not changing my mind again :-P I'm going to try to stay away from all audio demos and just try it out myself.

I've had good luck with Roland gear, tinybox. I'm sure you'll enjoy it; they do a good job. This time I went with Kawai, and that has also meant happiness.

These buying decisions are certainly nerve-wracking.

tinybox, you're right, at some point a decision has to be taken! I'm sure once you have the Roland at home you will have enough time to play it and then also get used to the sound, and you will be very happy! There will be no buyers regret! So now that you've made a decision don't look back, you should look forward for your new baby to arrive soon!! Good luck!

Tinybox said: "After going through a lot of audio clips from the HP307 and CA93 I came to a very annoying conclusion. I think I like the tonal character of the Kawai better because it's more held back and clinical. But at the same time it sounds a bit dead, especially in the decay. The Roland has much more life and the decay is brilliant but the tonal character seems a bit over the top, like it's trying to sound too cool "

That nails it exactly for me, well said ! I agree with every word - indeed the Kawai is a nice classical rounded sound, but too clean and 'short' to be really natural. And the Roland is too much 'Super' in the Super Natural, which makes it dynamic, but also a bit too processed and over the top.

So either way: neither is perfect, which is exactly what makes the purchase decision so damn difficult. You don't know what you would prefer - over a longer period of time - . You might find out that you can live with the bit static , but classical sound of the Kawai, or you might find out that SN would have fit you better despite the 'over-saturated' sound.You simply don't know , cause you can't try them out both for a long period of time. I , for one, really don't know if I will become more annoyed by the 'obvious sampled' sound of the Kawai, or the 'obvious processed' sound of the Roland after a while. Tough choice...

Now, in that case where I could not decide between the sounds I would consider a software sound as a possible alternative.

So the action and the pedals and the sound system would decide.
And of course the cost.

Also so far I know, the CA93 cannot been disassembled. This might also be a factor.

As someone who prefers acoustic pianos, the processed sound of Rolands has always worn on me quickly. The sounds seem very unnatural. When I had the G8 with ARX2, I found the EPs to be quite sterile sounding. To each their own, but I'm not overly impressed with any DP out there, so for occasional practice I'd rather go with an action I like and a sound that doesn't grate on me.

Ok, I'm laughing at myself now... but I think I have changed my mind and will go with the MP10 Here's my reasons:

- Price -
I just saw that Thomann.de will sell the MP10 for 2100 Euros (I thought it would cost more), being just slightly above the FP-7F + stand, with the Roland 3-pedal they are probably almost the same price. Stand and 2-pedal are included with the Kawai if I understand things correctly.

- AP Sound -
It's really an even fight in this.

- Action -
MP10 wins for me if it's the same as CA93, which it is

- Extra features (outside my main priorities AP and action) -
The FP-7F's extra features are pointless for me, even the speaker since it's going to suck (compared to a good sound system).

The MP10's extra features is REAL wave recording to USB stick, which FP7F seem to miss. Also some better EP's that might be more worth it than a very limited looper and harmony effects in the FP7F.

--

tinybox, the MP10 is listed at 1999 Euros for me, although that's probably because I am entering the site through the UK flag.



The 2-pedal unit is included, however a stand is not.

Cheers,
James
x

Hi James,

Whops, I read that wrong. It's a heavy duty rack mounted ON-TOP. Ok, never mind that ;-)

How would you suggest I protect the MP10 from two crazy kids running around bumping into things? Does Kawai have a stand made to survive gigs in drunk-crowded pubs?

tinybox,

I'm afraid Kawai does not manufacture keyboard stands.

I believe there are a handful of separate threads here that discuss sturdy keyboard stands, so I recommend having a scan through other user's suggestions.

I use a nice solid stand at home (I forget the name, but it's from a German manufacturer) with legs that fold in on itself. I much prefer this to any X-stands that I've used, which in my experience tend to be a little wobbly, cramp your leg-room, and hamper access to pedals.

Cheers,
James
x

EDIT: Ah, found it - this is the stand I have at home.

Four empty beer boxes should do it ...

SCNR

Quik Lok WS-550

I use it with an MP8 - bombproof!

Perhaps K&M 18810 , or K&M 18810 set (with additional arms for second keyboard) ?

Thanks for the suggestions.

The Quick Lok WS-550 looks interesting but I cannot find anywhere to order it (I'm in Sweden).

The K&M 18810 looks good but it holds 30kg less than 18953.

The K&M 18953 seems to be the sanest choice right now.

EDIT: Found the answer to a question I had so I removed it

new mp10 video on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6APMOjekYgg

Great!!

At least it's not in German this time.

Er, Oh......

Around 2:00 in Grand Piano; second high lead note ; ziffy noise is back ! I listened to the H1080 version on YouTube. Don't know now if it's the internet compression again, or that there is really something going on when notes are hit very hard (this second note I mean is played way to loud by the demonstrator, but clearly demonstrates the ziff-noise attack problem). I didn't notice any problem on the recently uploaded WAV demo's by Kawai, so I still hope it's not in the MP, but a compression flaw of online formats. Or in the MP10 recording to USB , if that is what they used for this demo. That is also a possibility !

FP7F / MP10/ FP7F /MP10...can't decided and these internet demo's don't help a thing...still no FP7F in the shop (or MP10 for that matter ;-(

It sounds ok. The decay seemed really artificial, much more than the SN stuff I'm used to playing and hearing. It is however, a fantastic looking instrument. I love that nice touch with the Kawai name placed in the same place as on real grand pianos. BTW, what's with the weight??? Why is it 70lbs!?