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Topic Options
#1504472 - 08/27/10 06:56 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: Luthrin]
Happy Birthday Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4415
Loc: San Jose, CA
"Given that we have not confirmed the purchase yet, what do you think of her choice?"

Well, botolo, I think... go back to the store and listen again. Three auditions on three different days, with at least a day in between... and take notes; even make a recording if you can.

This process will help clarify your thinking and guard against impulse-buying.

I also think that many piano showrooms are less-than-ideal for helping you to decide what a piano will sound like when it is in your own home. 'Bright and loud' helps cut through the acoustic black hole in most showrooms, but many purchasers get quite a surprise after they take delivery. We see uncounted amounts of letters on this forum from people begging for solutions to make their piano sound quieter and less shrill.

It couldn't do you any harm to look up the reviews during this thinking-it-over time.

I'm all for making your wife happy, but when I saw you actually use the word, "Ugh," to describe this instrument, it made me realize that you will be the one who has to listen to it, for some years to come.

If it's "Ugh," then it's "Look some more." And if your wife is trying to spare your pocketbook, this one costs too much money (for what it is) anyway. I don't see its resale or trade-in value helping you to move up the piano food chain, when the time comes.


Edited by Jeff Clef (08/27/10 07:05 PM)
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#1505062 - 08/28/10 09:39 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: Jeff Clef]
botolo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 6
Dear Friends,

another update! We shopped around and we finally bought a piano. It's an acoustic piano, upright, from Kawai. It's almost new, it was bought by someone for her daughter who never played it. My wife tried it today and she was impressed and fell in love with it (finally forgetting about the Hyundai).

We paid 2k for the piano, including delivery and taxes, a good price. We bought it from the super sweet Leonard from Hollywood Piano in Burbank.

The piano should arrive here on Monday!

My wife is super happy...I am super happy!

I would like to thank all of you for your time, your passion. Reading your replies has helped us thinking about our choice and helped us understanding her needs. Thanks!

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#1505073 - 08/28/10 09:58 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: botolo]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9176
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Congratulations, I am sure you will both be very happy with your almost-new piano.

Do you recall the model number, just out of interest?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1505097 - 08/28/10 11:26 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: Kawai James]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Congratulations on your new-to-you piano. Verticals are frequently positioned facing a wall. If you're going to do that, your piano should sound better if it's not right against the wall. You might want to try a fist's width away.

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#1505149 - 08/29/10 02:20 AM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: FogVilleLad]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
I thought the silent option was a hard requirement in the first place, hence all this discussion. If it wasn't a hard requirement to begin with, you could have found a lot of good deals like you did. Congratulations anyway!

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#1505157 - 08/29/10 03:01 AM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: Volusiano]
botolo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 6
Volusiano, you are right. The silent was a hard requirement at the beginning but when my wife tried the digital pianos and found that they did not meet her taste and after facing the problem of buying an expensive silent piano without financing, we were in some way forced to choose something different.

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#1505453 - 08/29/10 04:35 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: botolo]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
Yeah, that's always been a dilemma for most people because used silent pianos are hard to find, so one almost has to buy new and pay a premium for it. Even new silent pianos are hard to find, I think. You more than likely would have to special order one. I suspect the only digital piano your wife might have liked would be the AvantGrand N2 or N3, but then they're expensive, too.

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#1505480 - 08/29/10 05:31 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: Volusiano]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5276
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Just to be accurate, the AvantGrand N2 and N3 are not digital per se but should rather be labeled hybrids as they use a real grand piano action.

Before the AvantGrand, Yamaha made the GranTouch 1 and 2 which also were hybrids. The GranTouch might also be available as a used piano.

Kawai also made a hybrid piano and perhaps someone here can mention the model number.
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mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

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#1506205 - 08/30/10 08:32 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: Dave Horne]
botolo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 6
One final thought. While we ended buying the piano from Hollywood Piano, I would like to recommend Pierre's Fine Pianos on Pico Boulevard, Los Angeles. Pierre has been very nice with us, he showed many many used acoustic pianos and he also had three wonderful used silent pianos. If you look for a piano and you are in the West Los Angeles / Westwood area, Pierre should be considered as a great dealer.

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#1508570 - 09/03/10 04:27 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: botolo]
FazFan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Los Angeles CA
Congratulations !! I hope you were able to make monthly payments and that Simona enjoys the piano.

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#1508818 - 09/04/10 02:07 AM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: Dave Horne]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Just to be accurate, the AvantGrand N2 and N3 are not digital per se but should rather be labeled hybrids as they use a real grand piano action.

Before the AvantGrand, Yamaha made the GranTouch 1 and 2 which also were hybrids. The GranTouch might also be available as a used piano.

Kawai also made a hybrid piano and perhaps someone here can mention the model number.


I am not sure that I would label the AvantGrand as a hybrid piano. To date that term has been reserved for the Acoustic Silent Pianos that contain both an acoustic piano and a digital piano inside being driven from the same keyboard. The AG has the same keyboard, but only drives a digital piano, there is no hybrid acoustic piano expressed in the phenotype.

Maybe we need new terms?
We could call the acoustic grand a thoroughbred.
We could call the acoustic piano a horse.
We could call the digital piano a donkey.
We could call the acoustic silent grand combination a genetically modified hybrid equine.
And we could call the AvantGrand digital piano a mule.
grin

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#1574813 - 12/11/10 03:54 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: botolo]
B. Michels Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 79
I was considering buying an Avantgrand N3, but finally, considering it's very high price and the rapid obsolesence of an avantgrand VS an Acoustic piano, I think I will finally go for a small grand ACOUSTIC SIlence, and then, if I don't like the "it's silence sound' I can always link it through midi to an external sound module (Yam XF rack ? :-) ) or to my next stage piano to use its sound bank.

With this I am building my very own acoustic/electronic hybrid piano :-) without the constant fear of having an expensive Avantgrand N3 becoming obsolete with the launch a-of "version N4 or N3+", and with the pleasure of a "real" acoustic sound when played "non silently".

so now the question is : Yamaha silence (C2 or C3 silence) or KAWA anytime (RX2 ATX-f ) ? Any recommendation ? Which has the best "silent module" and without consequences on the acoustic keyboard action ?

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#1574837 - 12/11/10 04:48 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: botolo]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 770
I think the fear of obsolescence in technology is overrated. You don't make purchase decision on technology based on obsolescence or else you'll wait forever, and life is too short. You make purchase decision on technology items based on the innovations they can bring to you. So what if in a few years there are newer/better/cheaper items coming out? You will have already made good use of your previous purchase, and when the advance is far along enough to take advantage of the newer technology, you again take advantage of the technology leap and buy the newer product again. The only thing you may want to watch out for is to be the early adopter who pays for a premium to use the latest technology. But when that technology becomes common and widespread, you should jump in to reap the benefits.

If you decide to go with a small acoustic grand with the silent option because you like the intrinsic authenticity of the acoustic sound, I wouldn't bother stick my nose in and make any comment. But if you make your decision solely on the basis that you don't want to end up with an obsolete product, I can't help but stick my nose in to say that it does not make any sense to me. You're overrating obsolescence here because how can it be obsolete if you still get to enjoy all the advantages that technology enables you to enjoy for years to come, even if something better comes along a few years later?

I also wouldn't call any the AvantGrand technologies bleeding edge that you'd have to worry about paying a premium for to become an early adopter. All the technologies used by the AvantGrand are very mature and have had years in development already, from the acoustic action to the sampling to the sound system to the gray shutter sensors. It's a culmination and combination of all the best and most mature technologies available, at the best price point without the early adopter sticker shock.

I'm puzzled as to why you call the AvantGrand very high price ($14K or less street price for the N3) but you didn't bat an eye mentioning the Yamaha C2 or C3 silent grands when their SMP is around $33K to $43K, or the Kawai RX2, where their non-silent version is already at $30K SMP.

I don't buy the double standard argument that digital pianos go obsolete much faster than acoustic pianos. Just look at the sales figures between DPs vs APs and you can decide for yourself which one is suffering more from the obsolescence problem.

I know of this couple friends of my wife who had a baby but didn't want to buy any camcorder to record their baby' videos because they felt that the camcorder technology was moving too fast and they were afraid of the obsolescence. They're not poor by any means. So they just settled for taking pictures of their babies. I guess while millions of others get to cherish their baby videos, these people will get to cherish their bragging right that they're not stuck with an obsolete camcorder.

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#1574847 - 12/11/10 05:16 PM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: B. Michels]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9176
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: B. Michels
so now the question is : Yamaha silence (C2 or C3 silence) or KAWA anytime (RX2 ATX-f ) ? Any recommendation ? Which has the best "silent module" and without consequences on the acoustic keyboard action ?


I would suggest that the presence of a silencing systems can impact the acoustic keyboard action - regardless of the manufacturer. I am less familiar with the Yamaha system, however I know that the AnytimeX system found in Kawai grand pianos utilises optical shutters mounted to the action's hammer shanks to detect key strokes. In addition, these instruments utilise the UPHI sound technology from the CA93/CA63/MP10, I therefore recommend also listening to the tonal character of these digital pianos to gain a greater understanding of how the RX-2 ATX-f using headphones or the built-in speakers.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1576372 - 12/14/10 04:22 AM Re: Digital piano or used silent piano for a pianist? [Re: botolo]
B. Michels Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 79
- Has someone being able to also test the new Kawai MP10 ? Kawai used to have very good keyboard action, this board could be a "transportable" alternative when on the go..



Thanks

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