Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1577211 - 12/15/10 02:06 PM Petrof IV for 15000
ssamuels222 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 14
Hello. I just joined this forum which by far is one of the best I have seen irrespective of the subject.

I got a qoute for a brand New Petrof IV for about 15000.
My budget is 8000. I was wondering 1st) how a dealer could offer a Petrof IV for that amount. Is Petrof IV discontinued?
2) Does anyone think I could get this closer to my budget. There seems to be an over abundance of Baby Grands in Florida where I live and I have even gotten a qoute for 15900 for a brand new Yamaha C2 with warranty. I also have a qoute for about 9000 for a Petrof V which shows some sun damage but it is in excellent condition. I have just started looking and my piano skills are barely there so I am judging my preference for the Pertof in that it sounds very robust and a deeper more likeable sound to me. I have also looked at the forum's predilection for Estonia's and Vogel's which I had also looked at but are not as easy to come by. These pianos would have to be delivered to me so my next question is 3) Should I expect the dealer to and ship it and tune it once in my home included in the price. Lastly, if anyone can share their thoughts on Yamaha C2 model. Locally, I am getting qoutes within the 15000 and it seems strange to me that not one but 3 dealers are doing the same thing. Like there is something going on with the piano market. Is it the recession? or Am i just been paranoid. Lastly, should I wait for the cold weather to subside or do the delivery trucks have a climate control system?

Thanks for any insight, Regards Samantha

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

#1577240 - 12/15/10 02:46 PM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: ssamuels222]
mikeheel Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 386
Loc: NC
Welcome to the forum! I'm sure you'll get lots of folks here who can give you better feedback than I can, but here are my quick thoughts.

I looked at a Petrof IV one dealer was selling as "used" even though they had never sold it and said they would stand behind it as new. The lowest they were willing to sell it for was about 16k. A careful inspection revealed the soundboard had several major cracks in it. The sound was still ok, but I didn't trust it would remain that way and didn't understand why they were selling a new (that is, it had never been sold) piano with significant cracks in the soundboard. They also knew about it and didn't disclose it until we brought it up.

I actually saw cracks in 2 of the "new" Petrofs I looked at (including the one noted above). Now, that may not be a reflection on Petrof at all, but it left a bad taste in my mouth and I was a bit more cautious about them. Anyway, I say that not to slam Petrof, but to raise a warning flag about a price that seems too good to be true.

Long and short: Despite my experience, everything else out there says Petrof is a good piano, and I believe they are - just not two of the ones I looked at. I do not envision the dealer coming down much more than they already have. If your budget is 8k, I think you're wasting time looking at some of the instruments you listed unless you're looking at used pianos. OTOH, if 8k is a target and you're willing and able to pay a good bit more, the pianos you're looking at make some sense. I don't think winter delivery in Florida will pose a real problem.


Edited by mikeheel (12/15/10 02:55 PM)
_________________________
Happy owner of a 5'7" Ritmuller GH170R.
If you're bored, try my blog (mostly faith & family): http://mikeheel.wordpress.com.

Top
#1577249 - 12/15/10 03:00 PM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: mikeheel]
ssamuels222 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 14
Thanks Mike,

I know my budget is tough. The Petrof V qouted for 9000 is actually a model from 1993-94. Does that sound reasonable for aused one? The winter's here are getting down in the 25-29 at night and not much more than 60 during the day so it is a bit unusual but worrisome to me if they leave the piano in the truck or travel by night.

Thanks Again!, Samantha

Top
#1577333 - 12/15/10 04:39 PM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: ssamuels222]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3433
Did you HEAR the V? I did not like the sound. The IV is so much better.

1st) how a dealer could offer a Petrof IV for that amount. Is Petrof IV discontinued?

I suspect they are not building new PIV's anymore... Because they have a new series with supposedly better grands in the same size range.


2) Does anyone think I could get this closer to my budget.

Yes you can always try


There seems to be an over abundance of Baby Grands in Florida where I live and I have even gotten a qoute for 15900 for a brand new Yamaha C2 with warranty. I also have a qoute for about 9000 for a Petrof V which shows some sun damage but it is in excellent condition. I have just started looking and my piano skills are barely there so I am judging my preference for the Pertof in that it sounds very robust and a deeper more likeable sound to me.

Yes the PIV sounds good in my ears too. So I suggest to rely on your ears and learn something simple to play so that you can compare the touch/action as well.

I have also looked at the forum's predilection for Estonia's and Vogel's which I had also looked at but are not as easy to come by. These pianos would have to be delivered to me so my next question is 3) Should I expect the dealer to and ship it and tune it once in my home included in the price.

If you are in his service region, yes I think that is usual. Not if you are in another state I suppose. But maybe others have a more authoritive answer.

Lastly, if anyone can share their thoughts on Yamaha C2 model. Locally, I am getting qoutes within the 15000 and it seems strange to me that not one but 3 dealers are doing the same thing. Like there is something going on with the piano market. Is it the recession? or Am i just been paranoid.

They probably are all looking at each other? The dealer world is small

Lastly, should I wait for the cold weather to subside or do the delivery trucks have a climate control system?

Seems better to wait for better weather. At least above zero I would say. You never know how they screw up your delivery - see that other post about frozen pianos
_________________________

Top
#1577334 - 12/15/10 04:39 PM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: ssamuels222]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7117
Loc: torrance, CA
The price of the P V is way too high in light of the current market and what's available at that price..

The prices on the C2 and PIV are quite good. My guess is that the P IV has a few years on it since it came from the factory.

If you go the Petrof direction, you'd want to look into the factory warranty, including the length of the term and whether it begins at the point of sale or began with the date of manufacture.I don't think the P IV ha been discontinued, but there is a newer series of Petrofs. (Thy are much pricier than the numbered series).

Is the dealer still a current Petrof dealer?
Does he have other Petrof inventory?
Does he have any of the newer series?

Whether or not he's a current Petrof dealer will affect the terms of the manufacturer warranty available to you.

That uniformn C2 price from 3 different dealers is pretty low, but pianos aren't selling well at all and dealers study closely what their competitors are up to. I don't think it's suspicious.

I doubt you could bring the C2 price down much further than what it is, but with an old/new Petrof that's been sitting unsold for a long time, you never know.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#1577363 - 12/15/10 05:21 PM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: wouter79]
ssamuels222 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 14
Thank you so much wouter79,

I did hear the V and it sounded pretty good not as deep as the IV.

Now for the tough question. What would be a good price to offer but not to lowball the guy. I think personally that the PV he has with the sun damage and since I have to pay to tune it and ship it should be about 5500. But I don't want to offend anyone so if you can guide me differently that would be great.

Thanks for the suggestion about the weather. The cold is really making things here a bit icey (no pun intended) but pipes are blowing and crops are not at big.

I really like the IV so I am torned here!! Thanks so much again.

Top
#1577371 - 12/15/10 05:32 PM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: turandot]
ssamuels222 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 14
Hi Turandot,

Yes I found out the PIV is older but I am still trying to get the year as I think that will give me some leverage. I just don't know how much leverage. Is there a yearly percentage that can be used as a ballpark. I have seen the 30-50% off a sticker price as an overall gauge for a good deal but how feasible is that?

Also thanks a lot for the questions I should be looking answers to. I didn't even think about it. This is so exciting to me that I have to almost become another person to think straight about this piano as a business deal and not a long time dream.

Also believe it or not I am looking at a 1920-30's Cunningham. It is a privately owned piano is in excellent condition and I can get it for 1200. I have not checked the sound yet and I am trying to find out who can check it for me in Orlando. Are there recommendations for Technicians there? I am only worry about rust. It is a second owner piano and the guy, who is a piano teacher, assures me there is none plus he says it plays good enough to put in a sound recording studio though it has faded in color much. he does not care about that though. I do a little but for 1200 who could argue?. Any thoughts on this tangential route I am looking at.

Thanks, Samantha

Top
#1577594 - 12/15/10 11:47 PM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: ssamuels222]
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7117
Loc: torrance, CA
Quote:
t I am still trying to get the year as I think that will give me some leverage. I just don't know how much leverage. Is there a yearly percentage that can be used as a ballpark. I have seen the 30-50% off a sticker price as an overall gauge for a good deal but how feasible is that?


To get the info on warranyt and actual date of manufacture, just call PEtrof USA at Tel.: 770-564-4974. Give them the model, serial number, and the name of the selling dealer.

I don't think the age gives you much leverage. The price is already very attractive. It's a very good piano. Like I said, with Petrof you never know, but I can tell you that some dealers are asking much more than that for a P IV. If the manufacturer warranty is thin or non-existent, that might give you a basis for negotiation, but I don't think anything close to 35% is feasible.

The Yamaha price is outstanding. It's also a very nice piano. Actually, those are two of my own favorites.

Forget the P V. It's not a bad piano but it's going on 20 years of use and Petrofs of that age didn't have the quality control that they've had in more recent years. The sun damage doesn't help either.

On the old Cunningham, start a different thread asking for advice on a 30's Cunningham at $1200. There are a lot of knowledgeable members here with experience in rebuilding, but they won't necessarily be reading a Petrof thread.
_________________________
Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier

Top
#1577670 - 12/16/10 02:21 AM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: ssamuels222]
gnuboi Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 2349
Loc: USA
A friend bought a C2 2 or 3 years ago for $19k. $15k for a C2 sounds too good to be true! Maybe they are older but never sold, so the dealer had a lower price from Yamaha back then. Rumors say that Yamaha and Kawai have raised their prices over the years.

Top
#1577699 - 12/16/10 03:37 AM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: ssamuels222]
Vera Miwa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 62
15-16k for a new C2 or Petrof IV seem like really good deals. 9k for the older V sounds steep. If you really like the $1200 piano you could pay for a tech to inspect it.

You could have a good independent tech look at the Petrof IV at the dealer if you're serious about it, and in case it needs more prep, try to get the dealer to throw that in - may be easier than trying to negotiate down from 15k. And you can always make the $5500 offer on the V if you like it and tell the seller to call you if he's ready to sell for that at any point, and keep looking in the meantime.

Top
#1577877 - 12/16/10 10:21 AM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: ssamuels222]
ssamuels222 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 14
Turandot, gnuboi and Vera, Thanks so much for all the advice!! It is making me feel more confident on all the research I have done. Last night I kept dreaming about the piano and i thought I should call the manufacturer directly and what do you know turandot helped me out wiht the #. I thought I had to learn another language before noon today to contact Petrof. LOL. I also thought about going ahead and offering the 5500 and Vera backed me up and I thought I should do more research on the C2 and gnuboi is thinking that way too. I am also starting a new thread for the Cunningham and contacted a tech to chek the Petrofs and Cunningham for me. Again thanks a lot this is tremendous help for me!

Best Regards, Samantha
PS. I'll let you know what I buy.

Top
#1578778 - 12/17/10 01:29 PM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: ssamuels222]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3433
I would try for the PIV first, as you preferred it over the PV?
_________________________

Top
#1578982 - 12/17/10 08:05 PM Re: Petrof IV for 15000 [Re: ssamuels222]
pno Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 1042
Loc: ♪oron♪o, on♪ario, canada...
I am so jealous of all these US prices! Recession has its up side too!
_________________________
♫♫♫ ♫♫♫
YAMAHA C2M PE

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
European Piano Party 2014, Picts & Stories! (Piano Party in Portugal)
-------------------
75,000 Members and Growing!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) Purely Piano Practice Software
Purely Piano Practice Software
(ad) Piano Guide Lessons
Piano Guide Lessons
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
139 registered (accordeur, AndrewAJC, Anne'sson, 42 invisible), 1533 Guests and 18 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75385 Members
42 Forums
155837 Topics
2288314 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How far to go?
by ChopinFan66
Today at 05:00 PM
"Canned" Accompanyments like Music Minus One?
by Kojak
Today at 04:16 PM
grand care
by johnfin
Today at 03:18 PM
Yamaha U5 or Charles Walter 1520 console
by Kai C
Today at 02:55 PM
Weinbach 170 or 192, anybody got any advice?
by Sam4
Today at 02:49 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission