Figure 1. Spectral pan view of the file. The stereo image is obviously fairly collapsed.


Figure 2. Waveform view of the file. It's pretty clear that the sound is compressed (and boosted).

Oooh, cool. So they mono'ed it, compressed it, and upped the volume?

I still don't think that both compression and sound focus each deserved a knob. I'm starting to think that this design was driven by their marketing department rather than engineering.

I've always been amused by how many of these "effects" come from artifacts or distortion. A lot of engineers are trying really hard to get rid of them, and another lot are trying to put them back in.

Technically, it's the opposite - it sounds like you are listening to the piano from a long way way, because it sounds very mono. If you stick your head inside the piano, it will sound MORE stereo than normal. (of course, the piano would never sound that clear when listening from such a great distance)

Does it have a standard mono output as well, in addition to the Sound Focus function? (I assume so)

Greg.

There's 2 outputs for speakers on the back: "R" and "L/mono

When you stick your head into the piano, the whole soundboard is resonating and your ears are drowning in the sound. I maybe that's supposed to make it sound "closer" and thus rise up above the rest of the ensemble?

BTW, the Ivory Feel keys seem to have changed, but I'm not sure. I seem to remember that on the HP-207 I tested two years ago the keys felt more like very fine sandpaper or unglazed porcelain, but on the NX they're more like polished wood (which I prefer). Has anyone else noticed that, or am I imagining things?

Yeah to me they do seem a little smoother than on the 700GX

I also believe roland has changed the ivory-feel keys. Might be their answer to that key-wear-issue.
The sound-focus-feature reduces the stereo width and does some compression/eq-ing. There are different sound-focus types you can choose between (mid-boost, enhancer and some "piano types"). I was not able to achieve the same effect by only using eq, compression and reducing the stereowidth manually. What I don't like is, that using sound-focus makes some sounds noisy. This happens to the e-pianos, when speaker-simulation is off, for example.
Btw., you can control the effects with the control sliders, so the missing mfx-knobs don't seem to be a big problem.

I think it's also because the market for used instruments is more lively in the US than in Europe, so stores have to compete with people trading marginally outdated models at eBay and Craigslist. As soon as a new model is introduced, there's quite a bit of market activity in the US, with some people getting the latest model and selling the one they have, which starts a cascade down the market as everyone upgrades to a model which is slightly better/newer than what they had before. That cycle then repeats every half year or so when there's a new iteration released, just as it is with e.g. new Apple laptops or iPods.

I don't quite see the same thing happen in Europe. In the US, I'd have unloaded the P-85 for a good price when the P-95 came out and gotten that instead, but in Germany the market isn't active enough to start that chain reaction of upgrades. Also, I'd say there's a larger percentage of the population in the US playing an instrument as a hobby than in Europe, so the market of potential buyers/sellers is smaller over here, meaning that stores can demand higher prices because there's less competition. And higher prices keep the market small, so it's self-perpetuating.

And lastly tariffs on imported goods from China are probably higher in the EU than in the US.

Martin

If the e-piano uses distortion, this is essentially gain - which raises the noise floor - followed by a clipping circuit. A speaker simulator is a complex low pass filter. If you turn off this filter and then further compress the distorted e-piano with the sound focus feature you've brought the high frequency noise floor even higher. To operate it in this mode you probably need a noise gate somewhere near the end of the effects chain.

That makes sense, dewster. It's no problem anyway, I'm just having fun turning all those knobs of this nice instrument

RD-700NX
ANOTHER TRYOUT RECORDING WITH BRILLIANT GRAND

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOIpp-SL030

Thanks for that, Acabrita - I enjoyed your improvisatory style. I would also love to hear that piece using a mellower tone! (How about it?)

Be interested in a side by side hand's on comparison with KAWAI MP10 and ... V-Piano.

any one?

B. Michels, may I ask where you are based in Belgium?

Perhaps you would like to consider play testing these instruments for yourself at a Kawai/Roland dealer?

Kind regards,
James
x

I am in brussels

B. Michels,

Pianos Maene appear to stock most - if not all - models from the major brands, including both the Kawai MP10 and Roland V-Piano.

http://www.maene.be

Kind regards,
James

According to the manual there are different sound focus effect types you can choose:

Piano Type1
Limits the volume change produced by variations in your playing touch, and also reduces the sense of stereo, allowing your
sound to be more prominent in the band’s overall mix.
This parameter is effective only with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano.

Piano Type2
Reduces the sense of stereo.
This parameter is effective only with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano.

E. Piano Type
Changes the sound from soft to strikingly unique.
This parameter is effective only with respect to certain SuperNATURAL E. Piano tones.

Sound Lift
Limits the volume change produced by variations in your playing touch.

Enhancer
Controls the harmonic content of the upper range, making your sound more prominent.
* This setting has no effect with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano tones.

Mid Boost
Boosts the mid-range frequencies.
* This setting has no effect with respect to SuperNATURAL Piano tones.

All evidence points to this being the one mah115 had turned up to 11 on the sound clip.

Here's a nice video of the RD700NX in action. Great sounding piano. Just as good as my GXF!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m26Mg2zPJBM&feature=related

For any RD700GX owners who haven't upgraded with the K-RD700GX1 SuperNATURAL card yet, this ought to motivate you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSr1onqpEZk&translated=1

Wow, that certainly demonstrates the improvement - night and day in my estimation.

Not that I hate the SN sound or anything, but I've listened to other videos where the difference is less pronounced. Not sure what's going on there, it seems the stereo image of the non SN piano is quite a bit narrower, more mono. And the audio quality in the video doesn't seem the best.

I think there is a significant difference tonally between non SN and SN. But I guess you could actually prefer non SN if that particular sound rings your bell (I quite like the Superior Grand on the GX) but you would have to tolerate the issues that SN was designed to address such as looping, audible velocity switches etc. But SN is also about playing, not just listening. The connection between keys and sound is very good - not V-Piano territory - but very good nonetheless and in this respect it is quite a bit better than the non SN voices.

Steve

The above video makes them sound like night and day, but in this one the difference is much more subtle:



The tone seems largely the same, though he does seem to have more control over the dynamics with the SN voice. I guess he's playing a lot of notes rather quickly with little variation in touch, which doesn't showcase the SN advantages all that well.

Is there something going on between these videos in terms of which presets they are actually comparing?

In the Polish video,
- SN -
"One Touch" = off
"Expansion" = A
"Tone Select" = piano
- non-SN -
"One Touch" = off
"Expansion" = off
"Tone Select" = piano

In the Expressive vs SuperNatural Grand video,
- SN -
"One Touch" = piano
"Expansion" = A
"Tone Select" = piano
- non-SN -
"One Touch" = piano
"Expansion" = off
"Tone Select" = piano

Why is the "One Touch" always "off" in the first video and always "piano" in the second?

Also, the function buttons under the screen are always off in the first video and always lit in the second video, does this mean anything?

I am not sure if I can judge from the low quality of the video above but I notice that on SN piano sound, there is some kind of filter applied which makes the fortissimos sound way too bright, as if a selective EQ is applied depending on the dynamics. I've noticed that also on the mp3 demo for FP7f posted in another thread.

It is very frustrating that the comparisons seem to be between Expressive Grand (non SN) and SN Piano 1 - which I've often said is a kind of SN'd Expressive Grand.

I believe Expressive Grand was unique to the RD-700GX. Everyone has their own idea of what they like in a piano sound but I don't like Expressive Grand; it is very prone to a kind of thinnish metallic twanging sound at velocities that are unnaturally low...this can be addressed to some extent by altering the touch curve. SN Piano 1 is blessed/cursed with a similar character. I've probably exaggerated the problem just so it is less taxing to explain because in reality there is a lot of subtlety in the Roland sound.

A better comparison would have been the GX's Superior Grand against SN Piano 4 or maybe 2. SN 3 is a brighter version of 2/4...these are all significantly different to SN 1. Whilst there is still a degree of this too-bright metallic edge in a couple of clusters of notes in the midrange on SN 4 this can be very effectively dealt with by changing the touch offset to cause this behaviour to be introduced at more appropriate velocities.

Do not judge SN by the exclusive use of SN 1 (on the RD-700GX at least)...SN 4 is a much better balanced and more versatile instrument. The GX is one of those rare pianos where the better piano sounds are certainly not the fire-up defaults...and these are the ones doing the rounds on all the internet comparisons unfortunately.

By the way, the bass on all the SN pianos just blows the stock GX pianos away...literally night and day.

Steve

Dewster, I can attest first hand, the difference you heard in the video I posted between SN and non-SN is the same in person. I was practicing the other day, and for kicks right in the middle of a solo, switched it over to the Expressive and Superior Grands, and my wife was like 'what happened'? I told her I just switched off the SN.

As for the One Touch you asked about, on the GX there are buttons for Expansion slots, and the guy in the video is pushing the Expansion A button because it's faster to hit that than to scroll through the One Touch menu where he'd have to go from SN pianos to Expressive Grand, Superior Grand, Ultimate Grand, then back to the SN Grand Piano 1. See what I mean. When you go from an SN piano to the standard grands, the Expansion slot light goes off, and conversely the other way. That's all that's about, he just wanted to go from SN to non-SN faster so as to make the demo easier to differentiate.

Fully agree. The best SN pianos to me are the Grand Piano 2 which I use for Jazz, and Grand Piano 4 which I use for classical, and pretty much most other kinds of music I play.

The bass notes on the SN pianos are just beautiful. So realistic in decay and so much guts.

Has anyone confirmed yet whether Roland has fixed the ivory key wear issue with the NX?

Not confirmed yet because it is too early to say for sure. However, I noticed something yesterday while in a Guitar Center. I went there to compare the action on my NX to a store model. It has been a rough couple weeks breaking in my new NX keyboard, but the stiff tension has lessened quite a bit. The store NX had no visible wear on its keys. The V-Piano keys nearby had noticeable wear. I thought these two products are supposed to have the same keyboard? Maybe they are different. Maybe the newer V-Piano keyboards are better than the one on this store model?

Well, could it be that the store NX model isn't so well used yet, since it was barely put out for display? The other thread about HP307 key scratches also concerned me, since it supposedly has the same keys as the NX.