Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Need help troubleshooting my Dampp Chaser system

Since the hygrometer already has velcro on it, you should be able to rig something up with more velcro and it up near the top, against the side of the piano.

Have you checked to see if the plastic baffle is installed?

...and room humidity in the low 20% range is very dry. It just might be that the basic DC system can't compete with the dryness.

The plastic baffle is installed.

Yes, but the humidistat is probably a foot higher up. I just think the very bottom of the piano is not the best place to get a reading.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the wood is sucking up the moisture, like a big sponge.

Have you installed a back cover? These can make a big difference.

Just to clarify...when I say the hygrometer is on the humidistat I literally mean the hygrometer is velcroed to the humidistat so it isn't a foot away from the humidistat...it is right on it. As a side note, the reading from the bottom of the piano is about the same as from on the humidistat.

Ah, I see! I imagined it just sitting on the bottom of the piano. I get it now. Thanks for clarifying.

To be brutally honest (from mere experience) about these systems- and I know this is going to stir up this thread a bit- number (2) on your list would be the one I would suggest to you as the answer to your problem. Though many techs will say differently.
As a technician in the Washington DC area, I got to see a lot of these machines in action--- and also in the unplugged state due to problems from concept and design, or from simple neglect.
I doubt there is any real problem with your system at all. It is doing what it does.
We personally do not recommend these things for anyone, except for the absolute necessity (-and no we are not guild members)-- your situation may apply (being in a basement)...BUT- my first suggestion is ALWAYS to try to regulate the room the piano is in first (if at all possible).
I would say-- that for the price you paid for the system, you might have been able to solve your problem for the entire room-- both summer and winter? But, since you bought the system already- my only suggestion is to get the tech involved in your complaints. If the system doesn't do what they advertize- they need to stand behind what their claim is.
You CERTAINLY should not have to go buying better parts and spend further money to simply get the advertized results.
IF they succed in getting this system to perform to claims--- see to it that you take care of it, please. Don't let the pads get crusted over and the water turn to slime. These are not a few of my favorite things to deal with on the road.

-Rick

Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Many piano manufacturers recommend the system, though. Use the pad treatment as directed when adding water, and the water will stay clear. The pads need to be changed when they cake up with mineral buildup, and that varies depending on the hardness/softness of your water.

Could you post a photo of the lower cabinet, so we could see the distances between components? I have pictures on my Facebook page of a typical installation.

If the humidistat is too close to the water tank, it will get an RH reading that is too high, and the heating rods will be on too long, causing low humidity. Conversely, if it's too far from the water tank, it will activate the wet side too long. This is one way that we can fine-tune a system after installation.

I believe your hygrometer readings. We need to gather more information.

--Cy--

P.S. I'm reading 24% here in New Mexico, and the pitch in my upright (with backcover) has held steady for months.

The installation instructions say the bottom right corner of the humidistat should be 2" above and 2" to the left of the top left corner of the humidifier tank. Originally it was installed 6" above and 7" to the left.

Ironically, Dampp Chaser told me to move the humidistat closer to the tank. I told them that that didn't make any sense becuase if the RH% reading was too low...moving the humidistat closer to the humidifier would make it worse. She said yeah, that logically makes sense but isn't necessarily how it works. This was one of the points in my conversation where it was clear to me that I wasn't getting very good (or scientifically accurate) troubleshooting tips from DC.

That said, I've experimented with this distance and have seen no change in result.

Over the last two days I've had the humidifier plugged in directly to the outlet and the rest of the DC system turned off. The RH% is now hovering around 26% inside the piano and 22% outside the piano.

This tells me that it isn't the humidstat...it is simply that the humidifier isn't humidifying enough. I'm calling DC today to see what they say. The humidifier rods are warm but just barely warm. I'm wondering if the humidifier warming rod is no good. If it's not that, I've run out of parts to troubleshoot and I'm going to conclude that the system doesn not work as advertised.

Just for fun, I may turn off the the humidifier as well and see what the reading is...That would tell us what the old "bucket of water" in the bottom of your piano would contribute to the humidity.

Thanks for everyone's help.

dcb:

If you can measure the amps that the humidifier rod draws you can determine if it is working correctly. Amps x Volts = Watts. So with 120 volts and 8 watts (if Loren is correct, I could not find it on the web) the humidifier rod should draw about 65 milliamps when plugged in. Maybe you have a friend or an appliance shop that could check it out.

But Rick makes a good point about controlling the humidity in the entire room. It is better for people and furnishings, too.

Please keep in mind that I have very, very little experience with Dampp-Chasers, but you mention that you are using distilled water. I thought, though I could be wrong, that Dampp Chasers needed tap water, to help the water wick onto the pads. Or is this what the Pad Treatment is for?

Just a brief thought.

My understanding is that distilled or tap works fine. You should use the pad treatment with both but it is more important with the distilled so the water sensor works. The distilled could resutl in less mineral build-up and better performance.

So I think I've had a small breakthough...could be on to something.

I called Dampp Chaser today and they were very surprised that the system wasn't working very well. They are going to send me another humidifer warming bar to see if there may be something wrong with it.

However, this morning (just to rule out something else) I temporarily stuffed a blanket into the 1" gap between the bottom panel and the underside of the keybed. When I came home from work around 6pm the RH% was up to 36%. (It was 26% in the morning) So I went to Home Depot and bought some pipe insulation that fit perfectly into the gap. It is now up to 37% and we'll see if it can get any higher overnight.

Clearly, that 1" gap had something to do with it. I'm hoping that in the morning it will be up to 40% and I'll consider it close enough to the ideal 42-45% to call it a day.

I'll also try the new humidifier warmer bar when it arrives...could be a couple issues going on simultaneously.

By the way, the folks at Dampp Chaser have been very friendly and although they haven't been able to tell me exactly what is wrong, they have been very pleasant to talk with and have been sending me replacement parts to try.

Wow! That's a significant discovery! I may have to add that to my installation routine! It makes sense that that gap would have a real effect. Thanks for your research!

Distilled water is fine, but...

...the FIRST fillup needs to be tap water. There needs to be enough electrolytes in the system for electrical conductivity for the sensors. Distilled water will have too much resistance for the water sensor to work correctly without it (and the pad sensors, if you have the Smart Bracket).

After the first fillup, you can use distilled, which makes cleaning mineral buildup easier.

dcb, I applaud your persistent and excellent troubleshooting to narrow down the problem. Yes, the humidifier bar is 8 watts.

--Cy--

I was so excited, I woke up early this morning to take a look. The RH% = 43%. It is amazing how well the pipe insulation worked.

I still have the humidifer plugged in directly to the outlet bypassing the humidistat. So, I'm going to see if it continues to rise 50%, 55%...then I'll plug it back into the humidistat and see if it maintains a proper percentage. My gut feeling is that it will work just fine now.

The pipe insulation for 1/2" pipes fit perfectly for me and only cost a couple dollars at Home Depot. It pressure fits in and can be removed easily for tuning or maintenance. Here's a picture.

Cy, I'm pretty sure that's not what DC says. According to them, the pad treatment supplies sufficient electrolyte. Back in the old days, they called for using a pinch of salt in the water if using distilled, but that is specifically discouraged now since salt is corrosive.

*edit* Just checked, and sure enough, DC says nothing about requiring tap water for the first fill; only to be sure to use the pad treatment whether using tap or distilled.

My question, why haven't you called the tech who installed this system, they should be the person checking the system and contacting Dampp-Chaser. You shouldn't be messing with the position of the humidistat. I would think this would be breach of warranty.

Wonderful! I know you taught me something. I never imagined there would be that much difference from the gap.

I would connect the humidifier back to the humidistat as soon as possible though, now that you know what the problem was!

True. Since DC was communicating with him though, I would think that would allay any warranty concerns.

What DOES surprise me though is that DC did not involve the tech in the process.