Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Tried Bill Bremmer's hammer technique today

well, I wouldn't personally take offense from any of the lines above. Possibly the "behind the times" might bug me, but then again, all are entitled to their opinion.

(Having a bad day, all of the above might get to me)

Oh, and by the way, anybody interested in talking about hammer technique, honoring the thread?

I think Bill's technique is outstanding. Have a problem with it personally, because I feel-I-have-to-feel the pin all the way through. If not, I get unsure.

Anybody?

When you find the grown-ups in this thread let us all know.

Dan: an easy remark to make. Pin-point any juvenile stuff instead, then we can have a constructive discussion.

If such a thing did exist here, there would be a lot more experienced techs on this board.

Quite frankly, I wouldn’t waste any of my valuable time.

If so, you are wasting time right now, entering syllables here. Do not feel obliged in any way

Patrick,

I typically use the jerk method with my tuning hammer. That's the way I was taught. But, I also use the tap tap method similar to what Bill uses and it does work very well. It doesn't take much effort to get a string to move and to be in tune. The biggest effort is making sure the note is stable and set. Of course, it depends on the piano I'm tuning at the moment too. Some pianos just fall right into place very easily with no effort whereas others need a little bit of coaxing and others, a LOT of coaxing! My dad always said, let the piano know who's boss. Take control. When that happens, you are in control of what happens to the pin, string and the rest of the piano in tuning. Of course, some pianos are persistently pesky, but for the most part, when we take control of the tuning hammer, it is we, who are in control of that tuning pins destiny regardless of which method we use. Each of us must find a method that works best for us and that method may very well not be what I use. But, then again, it might... Trial and error works best. The more we fool around with the pin, going back and forth, back and forth, the less stable the pin and the string, becomes. The sooner we can get it in tune, the better all the way around. We are finished sooner, we make more money, the piano stays in tune longer and everyone is happier.

When raising pitch, I do not always go above first and then down and in tune. If the pin sets as it's going in tune, great, it's in tune and then I'm done.

Currently, I am considering purchasing a Cyber Tuning impact hammer. Loren uses one and boasts that it is wonderful. I tried Dean's at the convention. I was amazed at how easily it bumped the pin and string right in tune and with so little effort. I think in a few weeks, I will buy one.

There, that's my contribution. Did it help any?

Jerry,
I for one found it helpful!

I seem to recall from the "4 techs" video that when Bill is doing his "tap tap" method, he just nudges the pin/string into tune without needing to go above pitch and finish with a counterclockwise movement. I am assuming that there is something about this technique which promotes pin setting, in addition to string setting?

If so, would seem to potentially save time during a tuning. A couple seconds saved at each string could add up.

Yes, it adds up very quickly indeed. If we saved 3 seconds on each string x 200 some strings adds up to quite a bit of saved time. Over 600 seconds. I think that is about 10 minutes +.

Using small incremental movements not GIANT movements when tuning unless you're raising pitch 1/2 tone, will lead you to an in tune piano quicker than jumping all over the place going past "in tune" 6 different times. Or, one quick, accurately placed movement, giant or not, will bring you close to being in tune after which you can tap tap tap the remainder of the way. Or, jerk, jerk, jerk.

We are of course, striking the string at the same time with the hammer because we strike the key each time we are moving the pin. Each movement requires another hit of the string to check it and to check the tuning. The key is to try and set the pin at the exact same moment you put the string in tune. With practice, it can be done.

Jer,

I kind of thought that you would go for the impact hammer
Please let me know if it worked out for you.

By the way, I have passed on the rumor of this guy I know who can pitch raise in six minutes. They all go "Wow" and I feel proud

Ah, we're back on topic! Yes, all pianos are different, and all react differently to various techniques. There are ones where you can go right to it and it's there, and then there are others that, well....

Jerry, glad you're thinking about the Cyberhammer! You'll love it, I'm surel Its been a lifesaver for me; no more coming home with a sore shoulder and arm. I'm debating now on whether or not to get a grand Cyberhammer or a Fujan for grands, On one hand, $900, on the other hand, $400....

Jerry:

You don't get it. Bill was hijacking this hammer technique thread into a temperament sequence thread. THAT is what triggered my objection.

Jeff,

I can see how you perceived that but really the two topics are inter-related. Hammer technique is used to tune a temperament as well as the rest of the piano, is it not? I related how I helped a struggling exam hopeful who had spent an hour trying to tune a temperament but failed. I had worked with him over several years. He could not tune a successful temperament without changing his strategy. The night before the exam, changing his hammer technique strategy proved to be the key to his success.

I am not deliberately "bashing" cycle of 5ths ET sequences. I have only tried to point out and demonstrate why for some people (certainly not all), such approaches have not worked. I could use one just as successfully as you or the many people who use them do.

However, after many years (now 20) of serving as an examiner and witnessing rather consistent trends among those who pass and those who fail, I believe I know and thoroughly understand what the problems are and have sought solutions to them. Apparently, those efforts have been successful.

Those efforts and the reporting of them, both in hammer technique and temperament sequence are not intended to demean, mock or ridicule you or anyone else who uses traditional/classic methods in any way. I have said this repeatedly, yet the mere mention of a modern strategy is called "bashing".

You or anyone else is invited to start an in depth thread on classic/traditional methods, what it takes to use them and perfect them. Let technicians try both sides of the issue and decide for themselves which works best for them.

Yes, back to the subject.

Bill: How was it explained to you why this is the "most mechanically correct" method? I am not so much interested in why YOU think so as why those that taught you thought so.

[Edit:] Didn't mean to crosspost, Bill.

Bill:

I stand by original comment about you bashing 4ths and 5ths tuning and tuners and changing the subject:


The highlighted sentences show that you do not consider 4ths and 5ths tuning or a slow pull hammer technique to be viable alternatives at all. Piggybacking one on top of another is doubly insulting. You only give lip service to the idea that other methods have their place. Doing so makes it worse yet. I do not believe you are sincere in saying:


But this does not mean we cannot still discuss the subject.

I give up on this thread. Jeff keeps bringing up 4ths and 5ths. This could have been a good thread about Bill's hammer technique.

I criticize someone else for bringing up 4ths and 5ths and then get blamed as if I was the one that brought it up! Well, I can’t take that sort of thing seriously either.

HaHaHaHaHaHa!

Whatever, Jeff. The fact remains that we were doing fine until you started with your personal slam against Bill. Why don't you just start a Personal Slam Against Bill thread and leave us to discuss his hammer technique?

That's my point. You showed up to criticize.

Ok. Stop feeding the trolls and back on topic..