Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Need technical help on L'isle Joyeuse

Hello everyone,

I'm working on Debussy's L'isle Joyeuse. I have been working on this piece for a few months now, and I got most of it under my fingers, but there are a few trouble spouts that are continuing resisting me. Worst of all is Bars 188 to 195. That's the few bars immediately after the thundering descending run. That's the marching section that opens the fanfare section leading to the spectacular final blast.

To me the difficulty is the right hand where you play the main theme with 3-5 fingers while 1-2 fingers plays chords. I can still manage the first two bars where the chords can be sustained full length, but the second group (Bars 192-195)where the chords are to be played with staccato, I don't seem to be able to lift my fingers that are playing the chord. So the chords becomes nothing like staccato. And if I force it, the rhythm on the 3-5 fingers will become all messed up.

Can anyone suggest any tips, or exercise that I can use to overcome this problem. I'm going to play this next month at a recital. Please help.

Thanks.

It seems hard to see how this would be particularly hard for someone who can handle the rest of the piece!

About the staccato: If anything, that part would seem to be EASIER, because with the other, you have to hold down the 1-2, and with this, you can release those notes right away.

My best guess would be that in the whole passage, maybe you're not "voicing" enough to the top note. When you do, then I think the staccato part has to be easier than the other, because the top-voicing puts most of the hand's weight on top, and so the hand is 'glad' to be able to release the bottom notes -- it almost 'wants' to do that. Are you really making sure to bring out the top note strongly throughout the passage? If not, try it -- and see if the staccato part isn't actually easier than the first part.

So: I think the answer isn't any "exercises," but how you view the passage and if you're bringing out that insistent melody properly. If you do, then I think your hand position and 'energy' will be such that there won't be any problem with what you're talking about.

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your suggestion. Actually my piano teacher seems to have hard time understanding why I have problem there either. Anyway, that's a very good suggestion you have given me. Looks like I had too much attention to 1-2. I'm away from the piano, but I just tried it on a desktop, I could immediately feel that, it is actually easier, if I just try to concentrate on the 3-5, and lettking go the 1-2.

I will try it on the piano once I get home.

Thanks.

Tom

Yes.
Think those upper notes as you play the passage - "think" them -- and make sure they ring out. This is a fierce passage, even though it's not extremely loud (I don't even know what the dynamic indication is, but I know it's not ff), and I imagine you want the top notes to ring out fiercely. The "1-2" notes are just sort of 'there'; they are basically part of the accompaniment, and probably the softest of all the notes that are going on, including the left hand notes. Almost imagine that you're not even really playing those notes, but just sort of pecking at them a little.

It'll probably take a little re-tooling to get into playing it this way, since you've been viewing it differently and you're used to that. But once you do, I'm pretty sure you won't have any trouble with what you asked about. If anything, the first group of notes will be harder, where you have to hold the 1-2 notes.

Thank you Mark. I was off to a ski trip and just got back. I tried your suggestion on the piano. It is kind of awkward, but I can do a lot better than before. And now as you said the first part feels harder as you have to hold down 1-2 fingers. I think I need more time to "re-tool". I think it will be better once my fingers get used to it.

Thanks.

Tom

Sorry for my attempt to hijack this thread. But I think couldn't play the demisemiquavers in bar 1... any thoughts?

Wrist rotation

MightyS:
I'm also surprised that you found those particular bars to be of the most challenge! It can be difficult coordination wise, but it's not one of the hardest parts of the piece. Practise really slowly to get hand dependence, also practise stopping on notes, so on and so forth. This piece really gives me conniptions. Now my teacher is suggesting that I play it at a competition. Doesn't he hear the sound of utter suckitude? Anyway, I hope you have better luck with this piece than I have. If that passage is the most difficult for you, then it sounds like you're doing well!

It's brutal, really. I felt so much better about how I thought about it when I found out that Ravel was once considering rewriting it, because he thought it was so poorly written for the piano. I wish he had.

LOL. It is by Debussy. Yes, I find it really brutal. Both teachers who I studied with said that it actually sounds harder than it is and I felt like I was being over-dramatic about it (they thought some of the other stuff I played was harder). Glad someone agrees with me!

I did a double-take at that too -- but assumed (maybe wrongly) that he knew that, but was just saying that Ravel indeed thought of doing a revised version -- which seemed plausible, considering that he did his own version of the Mussorgsky "Pictures" (although that was an orchestration).

Ravel actually did work with some of Debussy's music, didn't he? (Nocturnes, I think?)

I'm assuming it was a slip of the keyboard on wr's part, because even if Ravel did a revised version, we would still play the original. It is understandable how these two could get mixed up, though. Maybe wr was thinking of "Jeux d'eau" instead? That piece is by Ravel and also seems quite hard.

If I don't know, I always give posters the benefit of the doubt, even if it involves bending over backwards.

BTW I don't think we can know how much a "Ravel version" would have gotten played, but you're probably right.


I think it is, but believe it or not, some people look at it as a Ravel piece that you play if you can't play some of his other stuff!

The world is tough sometimes.