Well yes, but nothing turned up as I'm currently in Norway
Used google maps, Kawais europe site (which locates a dealer near the capital Oslo which is far far away from here) and the yellow pages on anything selling musical equipment in a hundred mile radius. Even took my bike and checked every store personally (pretty easy as there were only two, not counting a violin maker and a brass and wind shop). I really made an effort. Ironic they were so (I still don't know exactly where) close all along.

To sort of wander into topic again if someone is interested in a very quick and subjective comparision between the CA-93 action and an aucoustic Steinway Grand I happened to spend 12 hours with today the CA-93 feels very realistic but actually much lighter in touch. The Steinway is like a sledgehammer in comparison, especially the low keys.

Fred

I've had a new mp10 for about a week and wanted to:
1) express my gratitude to forum participants for so much useful information. (I am switching from a 7' Baldwin grand to DP primarily because of a smaller room but I also wanted something that was semi-portable; I had played a CA63 and a V-piano before deciding on the mp10);
2) provide positive feedback. Sounds and touch are fantastic and exactly what I was looking for, although I am probably not as discriminating (at least wrt sounds) as some others on this board;
3) ask a question about a minor irritation:

Three black keys (Bflat5, Dflat5, Eflat5) make an annoying mechanical clunking sound on release that is caused by something on the key hitting something inside the case. (The clunking sound occurs with or without power, and is temporarily ameliorated if I lift up on the upper part of the case a tiny bit.)

Does anyone have any experience with something similar and/or advice regarding a solution? Alternatively, does someone know how difficult it is to take the outer case off and have a look inside? I am hesitant to ship it back to Kawai for something that is likely to have a trivial solution.

Thanks in advance (and sorry if this is a double posting; I tried earlier, but may have pressed "cancel" instead of "submit").

Plinian

Plinian, welcome to the forum!



It's possible that the three black keys you've highlighted need to be adjusted/re-regulated. It's obviously highly regrettable when customers receive an instrument with sub-optimal movement on two or three keys. Unfortunately, this can occur with Kawai's hand-assembled wooden-key actions, however it's usually a minor alignment issue that a skilled technician can resolve in 5-10 minutes.



I recommend that you contact Kawai America in the new year (2nd January onwards), and inform them of the issue you are experiencing with the three black keys.

Kind regards,
James
x

Plinian, on the acoustic forum, this would fall in the area of dealer prep. I hope that DP people don't sour on Kawai's wooden action because of minor problems. Unfortunatley these are problems which people don't expect when buying a DP.



Yep. Plinian, don't risk voiding your warranty because of what should prove to be a minor issue.

KawaiJames, in the states there's a standard salesman's joke: If they're going to run you out of town, you may as well get out in front of them and pretend that it's a parade.

Kawai might be wise to instruct their reps to contact customers, just to see how things are going. If alignment/adjustment issues are raised, reps could score big by telling customers that because Kawai's wooden actions are so like those of acoustics, they sometimes require minor adjustments when first being played and suggesting that they send out a tech to take care of these things. Customer service which resolves doubts is effective customer service. If prices need to be increased, I think that corporate will discover that the increase is minimal and more than offset by referrals from satisfied customers.

Very good point, FogVilleLad

This is exactly why I don't want to order my Kawai at an online store 600km away. Unfortunately the 'local' dealer said they don't service the Kawai's at your place either. You have to send it back and then they don't even adjust , or repair the machine themselves, but send it to Kawai for service. Apart from that they are way overpriced (especially when not providing even basic service onsite). Current situation is far from optimal.

Sorry to hear about the MP10 key 'problems' ; I think they may turn out to be minor adjustment issues (it's all wooden key after all and an acoustic needs some run-in/adjustment time too !). Let's hope they fix it at your place.

How about a store approximately 6km away?

http://www.mtecmusic.com

I gather they also have a showroom - it looks like your long wait to play this instrument is finally over. Rejoice!

Cheers,
James
x

Dear James, as you might know - I checked all those dealers and apart from one or two on the other side of the country, they don't stock the Kawai stages. To be more particular: MTEC ONLY has an old CN21 (second hand and it's on the list for at least two years already). Furthermore, they do have NO intention to put anything else on display and have no stock. I do my research sometimes ...;-)

I would rather see that you where right nevertheless and had a room full of Kawai's on display only 6km away...

Cheers,

J

Thanks, Kawai James and others for your suggestions. Since my earlier post, the clunking has stopped, but I will go ahead and contact Kawai America anyhow next week. (I thought it unlikely to be a regulation/key adjustment issue; the touch, inter-key spacing, and height are all fine, but there is/was something inside the top case that the keys were striking upon full release).

In any case, after another 3 days playing with high-quality headphones, I'm even more delighted with the richness, sophistication, and clarity of the AP and EP sounds.

Plinian

I'm frustrated. I want an MP10, but my Kawai dealer (5 minute drive) won't stock it. I have to buy it outright. I think it's exactly what I want, but you can't form a complete opinion by a couple of online pics and audio clips. I've played the CA93, so I'm very sure I would buy an MP10. If only I could see it...

To make things worse, I can't find a Roland NX700 to compare, either. I could look a bit harder, and I think I will.

It's not as if Denver is a podunk town.

Found a Roland dealer with a 700NX in stock! If I like the action, me buy it. I just don't want to deal with the labyrinthine problem of sampling the MP10 before I buy it, even though I might like it better. I can only spend so much effort on something before it becomes odious! But I will talk to the Kawai dealer again to see if we can work something out...

JFP, sorry to hear that MTEC does not have an MP10 on display.

However, my point remains: there is a nearby store - just 6km away - that will sell you an MP10. This is surely more appealing than ordering the instrument from a dealer in another country.

Being required to travel a significant distance in order to play-test an instrument is rather frustrating (I had to take a train to Nagoya in order to try the Yamaha CP1). However we're talking about premium, specialist equipment here - these instruments are sold in relatively small quantities. If it's necessary to take a train or drive to another city, well, I would just this as part of the purchasing process.

Cheers,
James
x

Plinian, I'm obviously glad to hear that the clunking on the three black keys has worked itself out.

Enjoy your MP10!

Cheers,
James
x

hawgdriver, it's unfortunate that your local dealer is reluctant to order an MP10 for the store. I'm assuming they're more of a traditional, acoustic piano-oriented store, and may therefore be put off by the modern, technology-heavy appearance of stage pianos.

If you've already played the CA93 and enjoyed the keyboard action, knowing that the MP10 will have exactly the same feel obviously takes some of the guesswork out of your purchasing decision. However, I too would still want to sit down at the instrument for an hour or so, to get a better impression of the sound, controls etc.

Have you seen the MP10 videos (albeit in German...) on YouTube?

Regarding the Roland, it's a very, very nice instrument, and would definitely be near the top of my list if I was shopping for a new stage piano. If you're able to play-test one locally, enjoy the action and sounds, and the dealer offers a good price, you might find your decision is made for you.

Best of luck!

Cheers,
James
x

We have the same problem. Same mindset. Same pianos under consideration. Different town. I may purchase a piano on Monday, regardless. I am not seeing much alternative.

I have several Kawai dealers within 100-120 miles. The largest hoped to have MP6 and MP10 in for Christmas rush, but said they didn't arrive in time (their story).

The much-acclaimed "supernatural" Roland RD-700NX is almost as difficult. A guy earlier on this forum said he was trying to track one down in LA. That speaks volumes. What can't one try in LA?

I also agree with you about technical specs and online marketing not being enough to make an instrument purchase.

The sound signature of any instrument is personal. Some folks prefer a bright, cutting piano tone. Others may prefer a warm, mellow tone. Personally, I would tolerate -- quite begrudgingly -- some looping and stretching, if the tone was more pleasing to me -- warm, full-bodied, and mellow. Perhaps I prefer an ES-335, jazz box, or Les Paul to a strat for the same reason.

Finally, I am more wary of online marketing. Particularly the "supernatural" piano marketing has raised more questions with me than answered them... LINK - SUPER NATURAL PIANO

Marketing is often a way of stating things -- retail diplomacy. If stated another way, with a sliver more accuracy, people would be as turned off to a product as previously turned on. For instance, what if Roland said this about their vaunted supernatural technology:

"Roland Supernatural Pianos offer an organic, rich tone that combines modern, powerful modeling and sampling, reaching well beyond the usual rhythmic looping to create random volume adjustments as each note decays. These random volume fluctuations will delight and astound even the most discerning ear..."

Marketing can be accurate. But more often, it can be debunked and illuminated.

Kawai James mentioned the small market for these instruments may play a role in making them difficult to find, then try. I agree. That said, I can't help but wonder if online retailing is also changing the incentive to offer a retail/hands-on experience. We try an RD-700NX at Guitar Center, making their instrument, which is chaperoned by a retail sales staff that costs hourly bucks, a used and beat-down "floor model" quickly. Then, if we like it, we purchase a new one from RMC Audio (or similar online retailer). If you are retailer, why continue to bother?

All in all, Fred -- novelist extraordinaire -- has given me a plan:

First, I need to look for a blizzard, a blinding snow. Is fog suitable? How about rain? I'll assume, all I need is poor visibility, so my spirit can guide me.

Then, blindly feeling my way, I must find the back alleys. After wandering the seediest labryinths and haunts of my local town, I must truly, without reserve, give up all hope. I'll wander the city streets lost, mumbling like Don Quixote, cursing my abandoned GPS, and on the verge of hypothermic hunger-induced...

When...

I'll see a faint distant light. The neon blinking stare of "Bates Pianos" looms. After a few more hopeful stumbles, a lambent glow of hope appears the horizon.

The glow yields a more focused light, a cracked door through which a stream of light --and hope-- flows. I stumble blindly, reaching for the light in hopes of finding my destination. It appears to be an old motel... lacking in upkeep but still cozy enough...

I enter. I hear:
---
"Norman!!! Is 'dat uh customuh!

"Yes, Mother!"
---
It all looks presentable. Now, if I can just find an MP-6/10 or a RD-700NX....

Thanks brah,
It's a shame that my local Kawai dealer is reluctant to carry an MP10 on his inventory. It's not a winning approach to sell $2-3k musical instruments sight unseen. He has an MP8ii and maybe an MP5, and a 63, 33, 42. A few others. I have to be honest and say that I'm not sure how much longer this dealer's business will remain a going concern, although I personally wish him the best.

I tried out the 700NX yesterday, and I was impressed. I don't think the action stacked up to the RM3 I tried on the CA93, but that was some time ago. I remember being supremely impressed by the 93. Still, the 700NX had a *very* satisfying feel to it. I found nothing to dislike about the 700NX, and more than a couple of unexpected nice surprises. As a result, my decision is made. I can only root for Kawai to reclaim the Denver market with their superior instruments (if that is indeed the case). It's out of my control!

What do others say--is this rash? I think it's reasonable, but I'd like to hear from others, because I haven't pulled the trigger. Anyone else have these struggles? My impression is that I'm the rule, not the exception.

Hoo daddy,
It is indeed a sad time for digital piano retailers.

When you look at it from their perspective, it's a grim scenario. You pay for the shipping, pay for the lease, pay for the heating, pay for the advertising, pay for the guy to sit in your store, and pay for the unsold inventory--only to be undersold by the RMC's and Sweetwaters of the world, who have the tax advantage to begin with.

What is the incentive to the local guy? Personally, I'm willing to pay the "local tax" of keeping a local guy profitably and gainfully in business. I like the personal attention, the human relationships, the ease of swinging by the store if problems arise, and keeping the local economy strong. But it's a bit of a luxury to purchase these things. Most prefer the low-cost solution, because money don't grow like mushrooms.

It's a bit of a sad state... Having said that, I'm happy to have found the perfect brick and mortar music store that has several 700's in stock, and is really the ideal solution to my needs. If only it was a few miles closer to my home--but it's only a 25 minute drive, so I can't be too upset.

Sorry to OT

No I think your approach is reasonable but Kawai is a small player within a specialist market. It is a big investment for a small dealer to buy a MP10, perhaps thinking that they might have the thing on their floor for months. With the Kawai, I would buy a MP10 if I'd played a CA93 and had satisfied myself about the touch and tone...I'm sure the CA93 is more widespread in dealers. I know there would still be unanswered questions but they are pretty much the same instrument in terms of key action and grand piano sound.

Steve

I really want to try the MP10 out. There is a dealer about 20 miles south of me that carries and stocks Kawai DPs. I'm very sold on Roland's PHA II and PHA III Ivory Feel actions/keys combined with their SuperNATURAL piano sounds, but now that I've got a dedicated light weight stage piano, I'm more open to buying something that's heavy since it will most certainly spend 95% of its time in my apartment/house.

I just called Shuff's Music just south of me here in Nashville, TN, and they are having a 40% off everything in the showroom through the end of the year, and they've got an MP10. I'm going down there tomorrow to check it out.

I'll admit, I had to Google that one...

You're absolutely right about the bricks and mortar stores struggling against the internet big-boys - it's a real shame. I understand why it's happening, of course - consumers naturally opt for the best price - but if the current trends continue, how will folks play-test the latest instruments?

As for your local dealer's reluctance to order the MP10, if he/she still has an MP8II on the floor it's perhaps understandable. Not that I necessarily agree with this policy - the MP8II and MP10 are obviously different instruments - however for traditional acoustic piano dealers, there's probably not so much to separate the two boards.

Anyway, if you liked the RD-700NX, I'd say go for it. To be honest, I'm sure you'd be happy with either the Roland or the Kawai...they're both excellent boards, it just comes down to personal preference.

Cheers,
James
x

The same thing is happening for sheet music, books, and methods, which brick & mortars also carry. Can't see enough on-line to know whether to buy it or not, can't easily browse and fortuitously stumble across things on-line either.

Whatever I demo in a store and end up wanting I really try to buy there - a small attempt at staving off the inevitable I suppose, but not doing so feels wrong.

I think you're gonna love it. Better take your credit card with you!

Curt

Well, I came home today and found that my old man gifted me with a 700NX. Very cool. I might have been more patient if it wasn't Christmastime, (mainly b/c it's not in the budget!) but having the instrument in the store was a major factor in this decision. I'm sure both are exceptional, and in some ways I regret not having an opportunity to hands-on the MP10. OTOH, how can you go wrong with a 700NX??

Indeed, *very* cool Christmas present! All I got from my old man was a box of chocs (which I shared around with my colleagues)... tasted good though.

Seriously though, I don't think you could go wrong with either the MP10 or RD-700NX - they're both really great instruments.

Congrats!

Cheers,
James
x

Quote: "You're absolutely right about the bricks and mortar stores struggling against the internet big-boys - it's a real shame. I understand why it's happening, of course - consumers naturally opt for the best price - but if the current trends continue, how will folks play-test the latest instruments?"

Hi James - there is a cure to this problem. There are numerous brands who refuse to sell their high-end stuff through web-shops, but instead pick out their local dealers who stock and demo the units and can offer the service and support that should be part of such a product. Just one example; Philips sells their high-end TV's (9000 series and 21:1 TV e.o) ONLY through dealers with a real shop, demo-rooms and excellent support. You simply cannot buy them online (unless it's an illegal business - haven't seen one yet). This will make sure the prices are not undercut and support for the customer will be maintained.

That said; it's a choice the manufacturer has to follow up on; with a good and efficient business plan, to make sure the products are available and distributed over a wide range of well supported local dealers , otherwise this effort will fail. It can work however; these high end products DO sell and people are willing to pay the fair price. I probably don't have to explain here again that this exactly where Kawai needs a big overhaul. Otherwise web-shops will be the only option for most people and as you can see that is not an ideal situation. Not for the customer, not for the local dealers and in the end I think, not for Kawai.

Cheers, J

JFP, I would hazard a guess that the market for televisions is considerably larger than that for digital pianos.

Cheers,
James
x

That fact makes the situation only more convenient for the DP's; it's a niche market ; it's almost impossible to buy such an instrument without touching and hearing. People are screaming for a place where they can do exactly that. If they would NOT be offered the opportunity to buy the instrument online for the lowest price, after having tried them in a decent shop, that would be good for business don't you think ? They can then buy it in the shop and be serviced with the support a real shop can offer. Everybody happy !

Now the only problem is - get those units in the shops , get the personnel interested and well-trained and make sure the shops that carry the Kawai brand are wide and evenly spread over the country. I think it's a matter of choice ; how you want to put your products in the marked and how serious you are to follow up on this choice. For now, it's either the web-shop or a dealer hundreds of km away - who doesn't even offer more, or better support than a webshop. Either way - I don't think the current model is working. You can't have it both ways and complaining about undercutting webshop prices is all due to the making of the manufacturer who facilitates this.

(And I know a TV is not he same as an instrument , but it was just an example. Think of exclusive interior design articles, likes couches etc, you can't buy them online either. Why should you, you have to touch, see and feel these products in real live. And they DO sell.)