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#1591721 - 01/06/11 09:05 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Ok, let me put it another way Isaldu. Once I hear that career guidance counselors are giving out advice to young high school students such as this:

CGC: Well Mary, have you thought about your future career oppotunities?
Mary: Not really.
CGC: Well tell me some things that you enjoy doing.
Mary: I dunno. I play keyboards for the Dead Canker Sores.
CGC: So you enjoy music?
Mary: I guess.
CGC: Well I hear there is a great need for concert pianists.
Mary: Concert what?
CGC: Concert piano playing. You get to travel all over the world. Stay in the finest of hotels. You'll have men (or women) throwing their hotel keys at you. And salaries start in the high 6 figures.
Mary: Kewl!

... then I'll outta here.
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#1591737 - 01/06/11 09:29 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: ChibiSF]
Orange Soda King Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6084
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
I think there is plenty of luck! From an interview with Menahem Pressler:

Interviewer: How would you describe your life as a musician?

Pressler: I’ve been lucky. My wife calls me in German “Glückspilz,” which translates to “lucky mushroom.” I’ve been lucky with the Trio, lucky with invitations. I’ve had exquisite experiences. I just was at the Radio France et Montpellier Languedoc-Roussillon festival in France, and got lovely reviews. Well, from what I can tell ... I only can recognize a few words.

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#1591885 - 01/06/11 12:13 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: toyboy]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1255
Loc:
Originally Posted By: toyboy
Ok, let me put it another way Isaldu. Once I hear that career guidance counselors are giving out advice to young high school students such as this:

CGC: Well Mary, have you thought about your future career oppotunities?
Mary: Not really.
CGC: Well tell me some things that you enjoy doing.
Mary: I dunno. I play keyboards for the Dead Canker Sores.
CGC: So you enjoy music?
Mary: I guess.
CGC: Well I hear there is a great need for concert pianists.
Mary: Concert what?
CGC: Concert piano playing. You get to travel all over the world. Stay in the finest of hotels. You'll have men (or women) throwing their hotel keys at you. And salaries start in the high 6 figures.
Mary: Kewl!

... then I'll outta here.


I would ve thought we were past this level of discussion. Does every conductor show the ego Von karajan displayed? Are all piano legends as casual as Argerich? Arent some artists more "pushy" than others? Like it s been said, artist manage their careers in different ways.

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#1591938 - 01/06/11 01:18 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: izaldu]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: izaldu
Like it s been said, artist manage their careers in different ways.


Sorry you take such umbrage. What level is that exactly you don't like? Humor? Or presumption?

Anyway, like I said myself earlier, getting into individual motivations is tricky business and was never my intent.

But I suppose it's also tricky to be speaking philosophically.
And it is also tricky speaking one's mind clearly on the Internet.

But moreso, this line of discussion had nothing really to do with ego. I"m sure Argerich has her share of egotism. And good for her if she does. I don't think you could survive in her world without a healthy dose of it. I don't know enough to speak about VanK, and whether his egotism was driving by the wish for fame or the love of music. Do you?


Edited by toyboy (01/06/11 01:19 PM)
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#1592048 - 01/06/11 04:07 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1255
Loc:
Well i think it was both, but one side seems to take over the other in some cases, specially in successful careers . Sorry if i sounded rude earlier on, it was not my intention.

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#1592076 - 01/06/11 04:32 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: toyboy]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8936
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: toyboy
I don't know enough to speak about VanK, and whether his egotism was driving by the wish for fame or the love of music.

Given the infallibly Olympian image Karajan so assiduously projected (and heavily reinforced by his recording labels), it's difficult to think that music factored in at all, especially in later years. Obviously this was not the case (he must have liked music a little bit), but I find the whole Karajan mystique very tainted, and I avoid his recordings, not to mention any YT videos.

Karajan seems to have been at his best in opera: his recordings of Boheme, Ariadne, and Rosenkavlier are considered by many to be classics, and indeed, those are my favourites.
_________________________
Jason

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#1592129 - 01/06/11 05:36 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: izaldu]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: izaldu
Well i think it was both, but one side seems to take over the other in some cases, specially in successful careers . Sorry if i sounded rude earlier on, it was not my intention.


Probably the fairest answer. Good people get involved in intolerable or difficult situations. But, then as I was reminding myself of the name of Pires's community in Portugal I discovered that she left it all in protest to the Portugeuse government and is settling in Brazil. There ARE alternatives than just "making it big" in the classical world, and to do so without compromising one's talent, skill or artistry.
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#1592183 - 01/06/11 07:02 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: CraigG]
Palindrome Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 3916
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Originally Posted By: CraigG
I think that any luck involved would likely be situational, such as being in the right place at the right time (think Lang Lang stepping in for Andre Watts at the last minute in Chicago in 1999). The outcome of one of those situations will be the result of hard work and dedication.

Maybe luck can open a door for you, but I don't think that it will get you through it.



Or Andre Watts stepping in, at the age of 16 (plus/minus a year) for Glenn Gould.

Also, Horowitz, in the famous concert in Berlin in the 1920s, stepping in for some unnamed pianist.

Success depends upon being able to connect with the listening public. Luck, talent, hard work, good training, good management, desire for success - all links in a chain. Lack any one, and you won't rise (or, to continue the metaphor, won't be pulled up to the heights).
_________________________
There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians

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#1592187 - 01/06/11 07:05 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: argerichfan]
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2720
Loc: Not in Texas
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
and I avoid his recordings, not to mention any YT videos.

Karajan seems to have been at his best in opera: his recordings of Boheme, Ariadne, and Rosenkavlier are considered by many to be classics, and indeed, those are my favourites.


Agreed on both counts. In my opinion, there's another reason to avoid his recordings, especially the later ones: as his high frequency hearing got worse (happens to us all as we get older) he set the tonal balance of the orchestra to compensate. The later recordings are so bright as to be positively screechy and are (at least to me) almost unbearable. Usually for me a great performance trumps a great sound but I wouldn't classify a lot of his recordings as being great and, given the sonics, all the more reason to pass.
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Greg

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#1592190 - 01/06/11 07:08 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: Palindrome]
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2720
Loc: Not in Texas
Originally Posted By: Palindrome


Or Andre Watts stepping in, at the age of 16 (plus/minus a year) for Glenn Gould.

Also, Horowitz, in the famous concert in Berlin in the 1920s, stepping in for some unnamed pianist.

Success depends upon being able to connect with the listening public. Luck, talent, hard work, good training, good management, desire for success - all links in a chain. Lack any one, and you won't rise (or, to continue the metaphor, won't be pulled up to the heights).

Back to the original topic. It's more than a little ironic (poetic?) that Lang Lang's career was launched by stepping in for Andre Watts in Chicago just as Watts' career was launched stepping in for Gould. Any other examples of people whose careers got launched in similar fashion (Bernstein leaps to mind)?

I think the bottom line is that a lucky break gets you in the door, talent keeps it open.
_________________________
Greg

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#1592192 - 01/06/11 07:11 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6160
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
What Andy and others mean I think (and I second that) is that if you LOVE something, you do it because you love it and not because you are after fame. If you go for a walk in nature you are not after fame (the first example that comes to mind), and playing the piano can give a similar joy.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1592195 - 01/06/11 07:19 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2720
Loc: Not in Texas
As has been alluded to in this thread, it's awfully hard to make sweeping generalities but I think if you add up all the ingredients to a successful career (talent, ambition, luck, love of what you're doing, hard work, looks, connections, ...) the people at the top probably score pretty high on all of them.

Edited to add: I'm not all that big on sporting parallels but do think being at the top of just about any endeavor has the same prerequisites. I've not read the book but recall from interviews & excerpts of Andre Agassi's biography him saying how much both he and Steffi Graf hated tennis. I'm sure there are top level pianists who feel the same way e.g., Argerich no longer performing in solo recitals. I don't know that she hates it but know she dislikes doing it enough that she's stopped (more's the pity IMHO).


Edited by BB Player (01/06/11 07:23 PM)
_________________________
Greg

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#1592204 - 01/06/11 07:31 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: BB Player]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6251
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: BB Player
Originally Posted By: Palindrome


Or Andre Watts stepping in, at the age of 16 (plus/minus a year) for Glenn Gould.

Also, Horowitz, in the famous concert in Berlin in the 1920s, stepping in for some unnamed pianist.

Success depends upon being able to connect with the listening public. Luck, talent, hard work, good training, good management, desire for success - all links in a chain. Lack any one, and you won't rise (or, to continue the metaphor, won't be pulled up to the heights).

Back to the original topic. It's more than a little ironic (poetic?) that Lang Lang's career was launched by stepping in for Andre Watts in Chicago just as Watts' career was launched stepping in for Gould. Any other examples of people whose careers got launched in similar fashion (Bernstein leaps to mind)?

I think the bottom line is that a lucky break gets you in the door, talent keeps it open.


I think also that your chances of being lucky are increased exponentially if you are standing near the doorway.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1592222 - 01/06/11 07:56 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: ChopinAddict]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
What Andy and others mean I think (and I second that) is that if you LOVE something, you do it because you love it and not because you are after fame. If you go for a walk in nature you are not after fame (the first example that comes to mind), and playing the piano can give a similar joy.


ah, do I smell the whiff of a sane metaphor? the whole point of this thread has mystified me from the start and it's kind of sad that the idea of playing music for itself seems to need to be explained. call me naive if you wish, but if the classical world has gotten so infected with fantasies of stardom as per pop and entertainment standards, shouldn't we be worrying more about THAT instead?

i love this image of a new thread though: How much luck is involved in order to become a nature walker in the likes of John Muir and Henry David Thoreau?
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#1592234 - 01/06/11 08:11 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
TylerNB Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 301
Loc: U.S.A.
Excuse me, but what exactly is a concert pianist and what does one do?
_________________________
Currently Working On:
Chopin Waltz in B Minor (Finished)
Rondo Alla Turca - Mozart (Finished)
Coming up:
Phantom of the Opera?
Certainly more Chopin(Valses and Mazurkas, maybe even a Prelude)
And yet another Bach piece

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#1592351 - 01/07/11 12:22 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: toyboy]
LaReginadellaNotte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 390
Toyboy, are you theorizing that Horowitz's colleagues, out of envy, falsely accusing him of primarilyy caring about success? That may be so, but as you mentioned, it can be very difficult for any of us to discern the thoughts of any musician. However, we can take an educated guess as to what their motivations were, based on their actions. Actions are generally the most reliable indicator of a person's state of mind.

Horowitz's twleve-year retirement seems to lend credence to the notion that being perceived as the best was his primary concern. It appears that one of the main reasons Horowitz left the concert platform was because he was distressed over the negative reviews he recieved for the Schubert Bb Sonata. Those reviews cast doubt on whether Horowitz was the best- or at least whether he was the best for that type of repertoire. It seems that Horowitz didn't have much of a desire to play if he wasn't constantly receiving praise.

In regards to the "wow, look what I can do" aspect of music making that you chastise, Horowitz was allegedly one of its proponents. In Remembering Horowitz, one pianist said that he believes Horowitz's art is a self-indulgent one where the composers are merely vehicles to show off his skills. "Not bad for an old man" was allegedly Horowitz's refrain.

It has always been my understanding that the desire to feel great and to be constantly praised is why people want to become concert artists. If you merely love music, you can always listen to other people play. That is a much easier task than putting in all of the time and effort that is necessary to create music yourself. Ergo, I don't see how the mere love of music is a sufficient motivation to spend so many hours at the instrument and to make so many sacrifices. It seems that that level of effort is only worthwhile if you believe that you can become a musical legend and recieve a lot of praise and accolades. I believe that the most exciting part of being a musician is when people are amazed by your playing and shower you with excessive praise.


Edited by LaReginadellaNotte (01/07/11 12:23 AM)

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#1592409 - 01/07/11 05:48 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: LaReginadellaNotte]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: LaReginadellaNotte
Toyboy, are you theorizing....cut....excessive praise.


Well, this time I hear you. And it's hard to refute, but I'll try anyway. smile

After I've posted my other ran- I mean posts, I was thinking about applause. I remember once honestly saying to someone that I felt the best reaction I could get after playing for people was silence. (And for the record, I said this before I heard Celbidache say the same thing in a documentary.) My friend's response was simple: But people naturally want to show you they appreciate the effort and talent you put into it.

Now enlarge that onto the concert setting. I can't refute the fact that most performers appreciate applause. As hard as I like to think I work at learning my pipsqueak repertoire, they work that much harder, and deserve some sort of "relief", if you will, in the form of praise. But as a constant, churning, daily motivator? I just can't understand how that works.

Again, to pick at inner motivations is crazy, and with Horowitz even crazier. All we can go by, at best, is with what he said, what colleagues said, and (worse) what writers analyze. I recently saw a documentary of him, by Peter Gelb, shot in his apartment. One thing I remember him saying that stood out. He was mimicing pianists that emote as they play, writhing around, beatific facial expression. (This was pre-Lang Lang!) Then he stopped and said (in quotes but I'm paraphrasing): "from me you won't see this. The expression is in the fingers and keys and the music." Also, when he is begged to play some difficult pieces he would repeatedly say things like "Oh that's too hard" or "I've forgotten it" showing a very shy aspect of himself.

At least from this documentary alone, I saw alot of different sides to him: extreme shyness, extreme pride at what he could do, and extreme pleasure while he was doing it. Also annoyance at Wanda interfering, but that's another story. smile So, really who's to say? But again, as a constant motivation to get up in the morning and practise practise practise just to be better than Rubinstein (to pick a name out of a hat), I'm not so sure. Maybe it's naive to say, but I would prefer to guess it's more of a friendly rivalry. There was alot of "child" in Horowitz, to be sure, and that also means capriciousness, no?

And yes I do agree with you that Horowitz was a master at wowing the crowd. No question. And believe me it both turns me off and wows me at the same time. (I'm not saying I don't appreciate the skill of a virtuoso.) And it's easy for me to disparage it from this vantage. I guess in the end all I'm doing is "voting" for those musicians that understand that skill and virtuosity aren't ends in themselves. There are and were such animals out there.

As for "merely" loving music, etc, I understand what you're saying. But then by what you are saying, you are choosing to almost pre-decide what greatness in music making is: that of virtuosic skill rather than other, less tangible aspects. And where the words fail, that's where this debate fails.

If you haven't already, I strongly recommend looking at a documentary of Celibidache that's on YouTube. He is my true hero in music making.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hEv91yiwXU
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#1592418 - 01/07/11 06:32 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
I would not use Horowitz' example and reactions to make generalizations about anything. The man was essentially an idiot savant. And I mean this in the best possible of ways. My (humble) impression of him judging by documentaries, biographies etc, all of which may be misleading, is that he lacked emotional maturity and his prodigious talent took over most aspects of his personal and public life as he aged.


As for the above discussion, the reality (?truth) is, as often is the case, somewhere in between the dispassionate love of fame proposed by Regina and the passion of "toyboy".

At this level of music making, it is no longer "mere love of music", it is a passion and a sensory and emotional overload.. Otherwise the world would not have starving artists and would be much poorer for it. However, you really cannot navigate the top concert halls with passion alone. There must be a need for recognition and acclaim or at least an ability if not a need to bask in the glow. Intelligent concert artists know that their position is precarious and that they can be dislodged by the next passionate newcomer. They need to have an innate drive to maintain their spot under the lights. Of course there are many artists who could not keep up with the pace and who elect to be more reclusive. Examples abound. Argerich is one fascinating phenomenon. She has never really opened up about her emotional connection to music and to her inner turmoil and love / hate relationship with her career. One gets the impression that stage fright is an important element though I am not aware of any major public disaster. She however is passionate about music and it is probably a major component of how she self-defines. Thus her prolific chamber and group activities. Richter is another giant whose relationship to fame is not readily definable. He was known to have toured Russia driving a car and giving barely announced concerts in remote villages.

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#1592453 - 01/07/11 08:50 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Andromaque - seems to me the truth "in between" us is simply having a good management team, n'est-ce pas?

Not to disparage any of your remarks, but it shows me that what we are all really trying to do is be armchair concert pianists, and try and make second-guesses. It's an impossible task no matter what we might think.

I've known that about Richter, and have always been thoroughly enchanted by the idea. And if that ain't a love of music, it's "at least" a love of his fellow human beings. He didn't need to go to Siberia to get his daily dose of fame.


Edited by toyboy (01/07/11 09:14 AM)
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#1592472 - 01/07/11 09:33 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
En fait you are being a little too snarky mon cher toyboy. What you are saying is that everyone else is wrong and second guessing in their fauteuil and you are not.. A bit sophomoric, non?

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#1592477 - 01/07/11 09:38 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
au contraire mon ami, je ne pas snarke´, pas du tout. je m'inclus dans la "deuxieme guessing", bien sur. et je ne suis pas sophomoric. je suis tres tres senior.
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#1592485 - 01/07/11 09:54 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Mais votre Français est très minable. Stick with Yankee language, the nicer kind.

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#1592490 - 01/07/11 10:04 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: Andromaque]
Orange Soda King Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6084
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Stick with Yankee language, the nicer kind.


Yes, the Yanky language is a little more favourable. (cross reference, hehe)

Anyway, I love Horowitz... Amazing, unique pianist, possibly unsurpassed in areas, but I agree with some of the posts above: I don't think it's the best idea to use his example for the norm for professional artists. I don't think he was necessarily some kind of savant (in the United States, "idiot" is a rather derogatory word so I would not want to say that) as he was just eccentric like a some other musical geniuses (although I need to read up on that more, so correct me if I'm wrong!)

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#1592539 - 01/07/11 11:33 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: Andromaque]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Mais votre Français est très minable. Stick with Yankee language, the nicer kind.


Ok let me try again, since you seem to be willing to disparage what I say in any language. I was not saying you or others were the only ones second guessing (or in Franglais, "deuxieme guessing", c'est pour rire, non?), but I was second guessing as well. I've said as much in various ways, and it's hard to understand how you missed understanding that, other than the usual sort of Internet thing.
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#1592979 - 01/07/11 11:31 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: toyboy]
LaReginadellaNotte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 390
Originally Posted By: toyboy
Well, this time I hear you. And it's hard to refute, but I'll try anyway. smile

After I've posted my other ran- I mean posts, I was thinking about applause. I remember once honestly saying to someone that I felt the best reaction I could get after playing for people was silence. (And for the record, I said this before I heard Celbidache say the same thing in a documentary.) My friend's response was simple: But people naturally want to show you they appreciate the effort and talent you put into it.

Even silence could be construed as a sign of approval. It could mean that the audience was so stunned and moved by your playing that they were left speechless (soundless).

Quote:
Now enlarge that onto the concert setting. I can't refute the fact that most performers appreciate applause. As hard as I like to think I work at learning my pipsqueak repertoire, they work that much harder, and deserve some sort of "relief", if you will, in the form of praise. But as a constant, churning, daily motivator? I just can't understand how that works.


I don't see any problem with praise being a constant motivator. A pianist may want praise so badly that he is wiling to spend hours at the keyboard, refining his skills in an attempt to earn a high quantity of praise.

Quote:
As for "merely" loving music, etc, I understand what you're saying. But then by what you are saying, you are choosing to almost pre-decide what greatness in music making is: that of virtuosic skill rather than other, less tangible aspects. And where the words fail, that's where this debate fails.

Greatness doesn't have to solely pertain to technique. You can be obsessed with achieving both technical and musicl greatness, as you can obtain even more praise if you are a great musical mind in addition to being a virtuoso.

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#1593126 - 01/08/11 07:59 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: LaReginadellaNotte]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3991
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Mermanof83

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8N5q9JuMSc&feature=related

If you'd like a better picture of Borge, I highly recommend watching that. I just did so last night after stumbling upon it.


Referencing a post here ^^^ from the current thread "Victor Borge." The documentary linked to in the quote above is germane to this dicussion and worth the view and consideration, imo.

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1593570 - 01/08/11 09:03 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: LaReginadellaNotte]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: LaReginadellaNotte

Even silence could be construed as a sign of approval. It could mean that the audience was so stunned and moved by your playing that they were left speechless (soundless).


I know one viewing of one documentary doesn't tell you everything about a person, but you look at that video and tell me if you see a person so childish as to be doing what he is doing, and knowing what he is knowing, simply for something as ephemeral as "praise". I personally see someone thoroughly musical, and motivated solely by the music. His every movement and spoken thought comes out of that. I just don't see how you can watch him in action and see that he's doing all that simply in order to get praised in the end, silently or not. The quote of his, when you see it, is his way of saying that when the audience reacted silently, he was pleased because he understood that he COMMUNICATED the music successfully. That is all he cared about, or at least what he expressed caring about. And if I may be bold and extrapolate, aside from taking some bows of gratitude to applause, any serious musician would probably feel the same way. At least I like to think so.

Anyway we're going in circles here in a rather pointless debate. If you want to feel that concert pianists are only there for your applause, well then all I can say is stand up, clap yo' hands and holler your head off.
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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#1593660 - 01/08/11 11:35 PM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: lisztonian]
LaReginadellaNotte Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 390
Maybe different musicians have different motivations. Celbidache may display the so-called noble motives that you describe, while Horowitz had different motives (as the examples that I cited imply). Since Horowitz was the greatest pianist, I feel that his motivations override those of any other musician.

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#1593757 - 01/09/11 05:12 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: LaReginadellaNotte]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6648
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: LaReginadellaNotte
Maybe different musicians have different motivations. Celbidache may display the so-called noble motives that you describe, while Horowitz had different motives (as the examples that I cited imply). Since Horowitz was the greatest pianist, I feel that his motivations override those of any other musician.


That last sentence...how old are you again, Regina?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1593792 - 01/09/11 08:16 AM Re: Luck and the concert pianist [Re: LaReginadellaNotte]
toyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 371
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: LaReginadellaNotte
Since Horowitz was the greatest pianist, I feel that his motivations override those of any other musician.


And that, as they say, is that.
_________________________
"Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense."
Gertrude Stein

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