JFP, if you are confident that such a business model can be successful, I can only suggest that you consider starting-up your own high-end digital piano store.

Cheers,
James
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That is definitely not what I mean (that would mean to uphold the current situation, only with one shop added and doomed to fail) , but let it rest for the moment....

The big bad internet guys open their own-brand store-slash-warehouse makeshift show-room and fill them with underpaid fresh-out-of-prep-school kids that know nothing about pianos.

At least that's what is happening in Europe right now.

/edit
Now while I'm at it: Worse yet are the waves of investors swooping in and buying out all these brick & mortar shops, re-open them under corporate flag or just rent them out to the highest bidder. Usually other corporate pirates. This style of middleman business model is generating lots and lots of money for a few people so I see why it is so popular. Same thing happens in nature but there they call it eradication or extinction of species.

While the current model may not be working to the liking of everyone here, that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't working for Kawai. For all we know, their sales are fully on target, and they may not even have the manufacturing capacity to make many more than they are currently making. I don't know, of course, but I don't think any of us do (except maybe James), so I think it may be presumptuous to say that their current model isn't working. There are numerous "high end" products that are not always the easiest to find or easiest to buy, but the companies and the dealers who sell their products are doing just fine.

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Its a issue when you "know" you should prefer the Kawai action (or the roland SN etc) but you still prefer the Yammie .... I have the same feelings.

.

I think you can closely identify with something even if you know it is outclassed in some respects. I used to drive VWs and even though I knew the equivalent Fords were superior, certainly as drivers cars and in may other ways too (and I drove Fords often), I just preferred the way VW did things...more than anything else it is what you're used to I suppose. There's no reason why DPs should be any different. You just have to come to terms with preferring something that a totally impartial person or objective testing would declare as inferior. It didn't matter how often I read in the motoring press how much better a Ford Focus was, I preferred my Golfs.

Do I win the prize for irrelevant analogy of the day?

No, I think that was very nicely put, Steve

My feelings with Yamaha CP1/CP5 action wasn't that good, because of the short key.... how to say.... excursion?
MP10 and PHAII and PHAIII excursions are simply perfect.
Even GH and GH3 are OK, for me of course.

I wish there was some more recent feedback on the MP6.User FRANK DADDY had some positive things to say and hasnt repoted back so I guess he's sill a happy camper.
I used to have a Kawai ES4 which had to go because of the key click issue but I was actually able to create music on it - quite an engaging sound with no velocity switching.
Im think next week im going to order the MP6 from one of the internet warehouses
as thier quotes have been £250 less than the MAP price here (in the UK)and if the new sounds and keyboard live up to the hype/CN33 reports this should be a real bargain.
Due to log in/email address probs I havnt posted here in years and I'm impressed by how popular its become and how erudite the discussion is.

Actually its a very good analogy indeed I know exactly what you mean. Its exactly how I feel about pianos and also cars ...
for example for 20 years now I've always driven a MB S class sedan as a daily driver I've been told to try the new Audi A8, the new 7 BMW etc etc I drove these cars and recognized that in many respects they are on a par or even superior in some ways to the S class but a few weeks ago when it came time to order a new car ... I went for another S class. With the others the "vibe" just didn't feel right. I'm exactly the same with pianos while I recognize the superiority of the Roland SN piano system and the fabulous Kawai action to me the Yamaha CP1 "just has the vibe" .... I can't explain it its a very subjective thing.

Hello puff,

Welcome back to the forum!

As you're aware, the MP6 utilises the same RH keyboard action as the CN33 and features a selection of the new acoustic piano/EP sounds from the MP10 (albeit the PHI quality versions). If you have any queries regarding the MP6 that are not answered in the brochure or on the Kawai UK website, please do let me know and I'll try to help out.

Cheers,
James
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Why thank you James

Actually Ive got the Spec. on the MP6 taking up so much space I think my brain needs de-fraging.

Anyway today I rang Music 4 Worship (probably Mammon) and placed an order for the MP6. Getting the baby delivered for
£1099 including a saving of £28 by ordering today as VAT goes up by 2.5% tomorrow.

Should arrive in a few days so will report back then.
Do you think I should start a new MP6 thread or carry on here? This is getting a bit long and is mostly about the MP10.

Yes, an MP6 only thread please - specifically for user reviews and experiences. Perhaps an MP10 user experience thread is also welcome - this thread has become overwhelmingly about the MP6+10 introduction, the way Kawai operates and lots of other issues.

I think a separate and clean thread about the experience people have with the unit is a good start for potential buyers who would like to know what there is to like and dislike about the instruments without additional noise about other brands, models and corporate matters.

JFP- Yeah agreed I'll start an MP6 thread and copy the only Mp6 review in this thread to it -if i can work out how the quote thing works

Perhaps call it Kawai MP6 user experiences (or reviews) , or something similar that covers the content well, thanks !

Listening to the recordings on the Kawai website. Concert Grand. MP10, MP6, and ep3.
As we go up, it sounds fuller. Nothing missing in the ep3. Just fullness. Am I correct?
If this is so. Then the fuller sound leaves one the ability to play more expressive. Easier dynamics.

James , Im fully expecting the MP10 acoustic piano sounds to be a notch or two above those on the MP6 but in what way is the main 'Reed' Sound on the MP6 inferior to that on the MP10?
Dose it have less velocity layers or just more memory?

Please answer the question without mentioning the words Progressive or Ultra

There appears to be new sound demos for the MP10 up on the Kawai US website including a clav with variations in pick-up possition.

Edited for atoitous typoa

Does someone happen to know if a F-10 pedal can be placed between the two pedals of F-20? In the images it seems likes there's a slot for a pedal in the middle after you remove some sort of plastic part from it. Any idea? Heavy googling didn't provide an answer, but that may be be because it's such obvious thing, that no-one else needs to question it...

MP10 has 18 different sound if I recall correctly. MP6 has 256 (or something similar to that). Make your guess... Mine is that any, without exception, of the MP10 sounds should be notably superior (more layers, longer samples, more whatever) to the equivalent ones in MP6. But in MP6 you have sounds not present in MP10. That is the tradeoff.

Which one has more memory size... who knows? (obviusly Kawai engineers but they are not gonna talk ). My guess is that MP10 has at least as much memory as MP6. In older iterations of the MP series, MP5 and MP8 shared the same sounds set and same memory for storing them... but unfortunately MP10 is not to MP8 what the MP6 is to MP5, so things may have changed this time.

While the MP10's acoustic piano sounds are indeed more detailed than the MP6's, I believe the first Reed EP is essentially the same on both instruments. However, it may 'play' a little differently due to variations in the touch curve for the keyboard actions between the two instruments, or the fact that the MP10 has dual EFX for the EPs and greater control over the amp simulator etc.



I believe that Clav demo is the same as the clip available from the Kawai Europe website. The EFX1, EFX2, and AMP functions are being turned on/off with each repetition of the phrase.

Cheers,
James
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I agree, the appearance of the F-20 unit does seem to suggest that a centre pedal could be added, however I'm afraid this is not actually the case.

In order to gain three pedal functionality on the MP10, the user should use the F-20 in combination with an addition single pedal (such as the F-10), then assign each pedal accordingly in the instrument's settings.

Alternatively, I believe CME produces a three pedal unit with a range of connectivity options which should also be suitable for the MP10.

I hope this helps.

James
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I got a MP6 delivered from Sweetwater a couple of weeks ago, and I'm quite happy with it. My goal was to replace my previous keyboard (Roland RD300sx) and MIDI boards (Kurzweil PC2R, and Roland XV-5050 w/SRX12 Classic EPs and SRX07 Classic Keys expansion boards) with a single keyboard.

The acoustic piano and Rhodes sounds are great. I've always liked the sound of Kawai acoustic pianos, and the MP6 sounds are a definite step up from the MP5. They're much better than my current Roland and Kurzweil pianos.

I'm quite fussy about Rhodes sounds - I had bought a Mk I in 1976 and have been looking for a lightweight replacement for a couple of years now. Till now, the best I've found has been a SRX12 board. The MP6 Classic EP sound sounds a lot like the EP1 sound on the SRX12. Overall, I prefer the MP6 sound, it's more a bit more polished.

The MP6's Classic EP 2 sound is a dyno-my-piano kind of sound. While I never had one of those, the Classic EP 2 sounds great to me - I'm having a lot of fun with it.

The organ tonewheel generator is not bad for a v1 product, but is not quite up to the quality of the piano sounds. For one thing, I find the upper drawbars to be too loud compared to the lower ones, so it's hard to get some sounds just right. I've already shared this with Kawai and hope that they release an update.

I am, however, happy with the leslie simulation on the MP6. It's at least as good as the one on the PC2R.

The action of the MP6 is very good, but it's also a little lighter than I'd prefer. Still, better than my RD300sx. The MP6 is about 10 lbs heavier than the RD300sx, but at least I don't have to carry a separate music stand now.

I'm not crazy about many of the non-keyboard sounds on the MP6 - they're the same as on the MP5, and often aren't as good as the equivalent Roland and Kurzweil sounds. But this is pretty low priority to me, so I'm happy with the trade-off.

I frequently play keyboard bass and am not crazy about the electric and acoustic bass sounds on the MP6. But even that isn't a problem for me - I MIDI the MP6 to the XV-5050 and plug the output into either a bass amp or a separate channel on my Traynor K4 amp.

I do love having 4 zones, though I only ever split the keyboard into two separate key ranges. It would be nice if I could assign each zone to either the lower or upper range, and adjust the split point by selecting a single key.

In summary, the MP6 isn't perfect, but it meets my needs, and excels in the areas I care about the most.

Hello msaposs,

Thank you for posting your review.
May I please ask you to clarify this point:



I may have misunderstood what you are trying to achieve, however it should be possible to set separate split points (key ranges) for each zone. First press and hold the relevant ZONE SELECT button, then press the bottom followed by the top key of the desired split range - the new range will be shown in the LCD display. This process is explained in greater detail on page p.17 of the owner's manual.

Cheers,
James
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Nice thorough review!

Too bad you still have to take your 5050 so you weren't quite able to replace everything, and such a shame to have to take it just for bass. Why do manufacturers implement keyboard split--which they *know* will often be used for left hand bass--and then not give you a couple of strong bass sounds? This isn't unique to Kawai, but it is unfortunate in what is a pretty high end instrument.

On the leslie effect, can you hear the upper and lower "rotors" accelerate at different rates when you switch from slow to fast? It sounded to me like that was missing in the demo I heard. I'm not sure but I *think* the PC2R was able to replicate that effect. Of course you could always add a Ventilator...

VERY curious why Kawai doesn't simply make a F-30 pedal then??



Hasn't this pedal (CME) been discontinued? I remember it being a relative hunk of garbage with endless configuration issues...

Curt

Hi James.

Yes, the MP6 makes it easy to set the ranges for each zone, but I have to set them independently for each zone, even if multiple zones correspond to the same keyboard range.

For example, I have a number of setups where zones 1, 2, and 3 have the same range (the upper part of the keyboard, say F2-C7) and zone 4 is for bass, say A-1 - E2. What I'd like to do is to change the split point by selecting a single key, like I can do on my RD300sx. On the MP6 I'd have to change all 4 zones, which means selecting 8 keys (the lower and upper keys of all 4 zones). This just means that I can't do this live, I have to store it as a setup. I'd like to be able to do this during a performance, to adjust the split point for different key signatures and/or songs.

anotherscott:

No, I don't hear the upper and lower rotors accelerate at different rates. Nor can you adjust the rotation speed or acceleration rate. It would be great if Kawai added that.

Nonetheless, the leslie sim sounds pretty good to my ears so I'm happy.

I've never actually tried the unit, but recall seeing it used with an MP8II to demo Galaxy Pianos' noises:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a0ND7f7L5A

Cheers,
James
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