Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Article: Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior to Western Mothers

David, I clearly remember one of your early posts on this forum, in which you adamantly argued that piano shouldn't be considered "fun" at all

I shall therefore take your comments on whether music practice can be considered "hard work" with an appropriately large pinch of salt

Great video.

fwiw, I *still* have post-traumatic stress from trying to explain the lattice method to my children.

Incidentally, when my daughter's school announced that they were going to switch to Everyday Math years ago, I was concerned enough to raise the issue with the principal, who pointed to glowing anecdotal reports of test scores going up after it was implemented in other districts. I pointed out the weaknesses with anecdotal, nonexperimental data and got nowhere. I even e-mailed the publishers of Everyday Math and asked if they had any controlled experimental trials showing the superiority of the curriculum. They wrote back rather snittily if I could name ANY standard curriculum that had been shown effective in a controlled experiment... which I can't, which shows what a sorry mess the field of ed psych is in.

I hear that my daughter's school has abandoned Everyday Math (too late to help us!) because it wasn't working. *sigh*

[steps off soapbox]

The Chinese mother who wrote the article is on the Today Show this morning (Tuesday). If you missed it, perhaps someone's posted it to YouTube.

Just watched. Heard this ...

Chinese Mom to Child: "If the next time (playing a piano piece) isn't perfect, I'm going to burn all your stuffed animals."

I guess the ends justify the means.

Being Asian American myself, Chinese for that matter, I had the exact same upbringing described in the article. Being an adult at 27, I would not have accomplished as many things as I did if I didn't have such a strict upbringing, but on the downside, everything may look nice on paper, but I have to admit, my parents never taught me how to live life, they just only grilled me to seem like I'm good at it.

There will always be some kind complication, especially if the child doesn't grow up to be either a doctor, lawyer, or a virtuoso, despite the straight A's, ivy league's, and music training.

Good thing its not the year 2000, if it was found out I spent my time on here and not, as the author strongly agree: 1)Studying 2)preparing for college interviews 3)perfecting one of Paganini's Caprices for the violin, I think I'd have a whole lot of questions to answer and probably get grounded with no car access for the weekend.

Though, I laugh now I think about it.

I just read this post

We are not Asian, but live in an area with a significant Asian population and many of my kids' friends are Asian. I do try to emulate the Moms somewhat. I know it's a stereotype, but *in general* their kids are bright, well behaved, and a pleasure to interact with. The Moms around here do allow playdates, fortunately!

Here is an excerpt from one Mom's email to me about the article (with her permission):


It's 100% true! In China, it's exactly like this. Every child knew a lot of math, words, skills before they even get into preschool.

Here in US, many chinese parents get inflenced by western parenting style. However, the bottom principles stay the same. For instance, in my home, I'm more towards western parenting style. However, I also can't accept B in my kid's report, and I think if they get B, it's because they didn't work hard enough. I require them practice piano 30mins a day, otherwise I'm wasting my money and time to even send them to the lessons. My husband's parenting style is just like the article mentioned (but he let them have playdate, and camp out), and I also know plenty of other chinese parents are like that. He call them "stupid" if they don't do something right. So we argue quite a lot because of the difference. I don't think it will destroy kid's confidence, but I think the language is too rude, and not a good model for them to learn. We all believe that plenty of practice will eventually build up enough confidence and excellence.

Nowadays, when I go to China, and see how motivated people are towards learning, I'm worried. I'm worried that our kids grow up too relaxed, and will not be competent in the global market. My husband and I discussed about the jobs lost to overseas will never come back. We don't know except for doctors (which can't easily be outsourced), lawyers, what other career our kids can choose in the future.

This method works and it doesn't even have to be for that long. If applied correctly and carefully, at the right time of the child's life to instill the value of hard work, it will last a life time.

The author is as one as already said, "provocative". Whether she was really as harsh as she stated, only she and her child would know.

About the math and surrounding issues. I taught at the gr. 2 - 4 level.

First, CY - primary grades are very important because you are forming basic concepts on which everything else rests. It is easy to have kids count blocks, memorize 2+2 = 4, and fill in work sheets - but that misses teaching. If you tutor a gr. 7 child failing algebra, you'll often find that he never truly understood the concepts of adding and multiplication.

Teaching: In teacher training we learn how to teach. You set up a goal such as "the child will be able to multiply two-digit numbers", then you break down that goal into steps of mini-goals. Then you decide how you will teach this - what activities, presentation. Then what tools you will use. A grocery store selling apples at .20/lb is a teaching tool that can lead to a learning activity, to use the lingo. A textbook is a teaching tool, and nothing more. It doesn't teach.

What seems to have happened is that the publishers and maybe your board of education has taken over for teachers. We had something similar here. They have created a lesson plan, teaching approach, and do not allow teachers to teach (but not as bad as that video).

Over here it was red and blue counting blocks. The old curriculum guidelines said "The child will understand negative numbers and be able to use them in + - / x". The new guidelines said "A child will be able to do .... with red and blue counting blocks." and essentially listed a teaching approach rather than teaching goals. Those blocks confuse the heck out of kids, which is why I know about it.

A qualified teacher who knows how to design a lesson will understand about multiplying and memorizing. Blind memorization is not good. The child should understand what multiplying actually is, and if he forgets his facts, be able to figure them out. But he does need to memorize. 30y x 2 = 60y is impossible without both memorized tables and understanding what multiplication actually is. The teacher will set this up, and will also gear his teaching toward different learning styles and the makeup of that classroom.

When our educational reform came, two sets of textbooks were printed - one "traditional" and one with a modern "spiral" view. My children were still homeschooled so I researched. Only two schools in our district chose the traditional one. When I tutored kids with difficulty I'd bring our traditional, and they would say "Why can't we learn this way!" But the idea of how children learn had a stranglehold on the school system.

That video is insane. What it really looks like is an imposed teaching approach frozen into a book. But it is hard to tell from that presentation which deliberately shows everything in a bad light. I was turned off as soon as she called the book "a curriculum".

The Chinese parent's main goal wasn't trying to instill memorization and pure rote learning, but rather:

1. Discipline
2. Hard work
3. Any other synonym for Discipline

Would this lesson be better learned as a teenager who's miles behind his/her peers? Unless the child has an extremely high IQ from birth, what happens to the rest of the bell curve? Most people have to work for what they have, it's just that simple. Never assume anything else. Most that get to top are innately "talented" with the understanding that hardwork is also required. Even Mozart was grilled by his father.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/choosing-self-esteem-over-sex-or-pizza/?hp

Interesting blog/article with references and studies that do not categorize humans into subclasses as sensitive as race. Hardwork, yielding self-esteem boosting complements generally lead to well behaved, high grade students. I disagree with the yale professor by generalizing races, but the core message remains the same, it's just that in today's society, without generating adverse, provocative statements, general society usually don't read and respond as drastically. The fact that this thread exists proves this point.

Child prodigies that go on to become renowned artists in music further prove that the right upbringing mixed with the right gene is needed, just that the darker side of life is usually not mentioned. The recognition and the monetary materials that is reimbursed to the artist is enough to cover the harsher upbringing. Those that were subjugated to the same harsh bringing but never receive the expected validation from society, then, would be a potential problem. This also happens but that is a completely different matter and at this point, then should the member of society need to grasp with the reality of the popular phrase: "You've done you best."

This vicious cycle, as I use a extremely negative word to describe it is because of the current rising standard of living and performance bestowed upon the younger generation, will only become increasingly severe because human beings no longer can "just be" in order to fulfill expectations of those around him/her. To bring things down to the most neanderthal factor, mating, is in many situations dependent on this. Sad, but true. Is this evolution or de-evolution?

Let's see here ... Love of learning vs. learn this or else. Which one would I pick for my chld? Easy choice since I wouldn't be interested in producing a 'human doing.'

Being strict and being abusive are two different things. Being strict and having high expectations are also not limited to Chinese, or Asian, parents. I am very puzzled by the article's labeling of this one mom's abusive parenting style as "Chinese mother" style. If it wants to be provocative, it certainly succeeded. But it doesn't really help to facilitate the understanding between cultures.

I don't know if that video exaggerates a lot (Monica can verfiry that). Actually I was quite happy when my son was in 1st grade. It covers so many topics (even fractions and possibility). Then move on to the 2nd grade, I noticed the same topics go all over again without much depth added (spiral approach). I started to search on Everyday Math and found that video and this article http://nychold.com/em-arith.html. I just couldn't believe what I was reading. Multiple algorithms for the four basic operations for whole number arithmetic only, and one is introduced each year till 5th grade.

I immediately set up an appointment with the schoold math coordinator teacher to confirm if they are doing that (answer is yes). In a test, do they require students to use the new taught algorithm if kids already masters with other method (answer is yes)? Are they going to teach four basic operations for integer (negative number), fraction and decimal (answer is not much)? Are they going to allow calculator (answer is yes)? After the meeting, I already made up my mind that we are going to switch to local school (using traditional math) even though we love everything else in the old school.

My sense is that the whole old fashioned "Chinese Mom" thing is only being lauded by the the author out of nostalgia. Because its dying out. More recent trends among young mothers in China are less traditional:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-01/14/content_9317593.htm

The older parenting model is self-defeating, anyway. I mean what high-achieving professional-bound young lady would aspire to graduating to the role of a full-time slave-driver of her children. Indeed, I find it hard to reconcile the author herself pursuing careers as a legal, educational, and writer professional, while portraying herself as anything but a modern mom. Maybe that's the sequel.

Howard

Read Prof. Chua's article and the comments on WSJ. Here are two things I picked up that I found interesting.

1. The "Superior" title may be added by the editor at WSJ to provoke the public and to generate the maximum publicity for the paper. What a success! Imaging how few people would read the article if the title were "This is how I raise my Children" by Amy Chua.

2. Chua is not a Chinese last name for people from mainland China, Taiwan, or Hong Kong. It is more likely a name for the Chinese minority living in Indonesia, Malaysia. They may be distantly linked to Chinese ancestry, but culturally they drifted further apart from the "Chinese". It is preposterous for her to describe her way of child rearing as the Chinese way.

I am not surprised that people got so riled up by the article. What a move by Prof. Chua and WSJ.

For #2, last name "Chua" is not used in Taiwan or China. Taiwanese would have spelled it as “Tsai” and Chinese from China would have spelled it as “Chai” or “Cai”. You are very right about the “Chua” last name for Chinese living in Indonesia and Malaysia and in this case, Amy Chua’s parents are from Philippines.
You are also right about “Overseas Chinese” who live in South East Asia has a very different value in a lot of aspect compare to Chinese in Mainland China, Hong Kong or Taiwan.

Chua is the Hokkien pronunciation. It is not a minority. What she described was very accurate in typical 1st generation Chinese families. As the generation get farther and assimilated to non Chinese culture, the strictness will dissipate. By the third generation, this kind of upbringing will disappear, unless the families are still in a place where the Chinese population is still high, like Singapore, Malaysia, Taiwan, etc.

Hope this helps.

In my experience, the overseas Chinese have held on to traditional Chinese values better than folks from China or Taiwan. Perhaps they are sheltered from the encroachment of "Western" values.

All of my piano students of Chinese ancestry were born in the US. They are second- or third-generation Chinese, so what I'm witnessing is pretty much the "let's all just play the piano for fun" style of parenting.

I'm the one who has to poke and prod to get the kids moving in the right direction. Maybe that's why I'm hired in the first place...

The "I am the parent and I know what is best for you" works to some extent, such as getting the kid to eat broccoli...But we all have our natural proclivities and parents need to discover these and not force what just isn't there. An interesting quote:

His father intended for him to pursue electrical engineering, but he clashed with authorities and resented the school's regimen and teaching method. He later wrote that the spirit of learning and creative thought were lost in strict rote learning.



The "He".....was Albert Einstein.

I agree that overseas Chinese left China prior the communist era hold their value much better than folks from China and Taiwan. They were not affected by communist mentality. Their only ties to their old world are tradition and values that they brought more than 100 years ago.

Sometimes, it is hard to see little kids be treated harshly by the parents, even though the purpose is good, but many times it was too much. A balance is needed.