Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner trilling in octaves?

I don't know the piece, but I'm guessing that it alternates back and forth between hands? Oh hang, on, actually I have heard it. Yeah, I think I can picture it now- that's the kind of thing. There's a similar sort of thing in the Rachmaninoff 1st. When I first heard Katsaris do that, I assumed he must have been doing using one of those typical tricks to achieve such speed.

Oh, so if you took away one of his hands, he's still be doing a very fast trill in octaves?

(O_____O)

Well, that is indeed impressive.

Yep- effectively four trills at once (assuming there isn't some kind of ingenious cheat). If I hadn't heard it, I wouldn't have believed such a thing to be possible. Anyone who thinks that a lot of concert pianists could do that in a way that even approaches the sound of a true trill (never mind at such a speed) has a very optimistic view.

It is indeed very impressive, but I wonder how often it is used, besides a piano's own supervirtuoso transcriptions... I'm not downing those, they're often times entertaining to hear of course.

I'm sure some of the most renowned "technicians" could do it.

I did make that assumption, sorry. I guess I was primed by the appearance of "real trill" right before that quote.

In any case, the point still remains: this is indeed a stupendous feat but by no means impossible for the tens of pianists out there who possess the highest levels of virtuosity and technique that the world's best conservatories have taught them. I just refuse to believe it. That's my only point. Katsaris is indeed special, nobody disputes that but there must be at least 40-50 special pianists out there, special at the same level that Katsaris is at.

If you still want to argue that he's one out of maybe two pianists who can do this, maybe you should go to the piano forum where somebody has started a thread called "The best pianist" and post his name in bold letters. We have a winner here.

After OSK's last post following your clarification, I guess that makes two very optimistic people here. I hope other people chime in as well.. I'd love to take a count of the optimistic people.

Sure- I use "one or two" in the colloquial sense, not in the literal numerical sense. But I wouldn't believe anyone else could necessarily do it at such an insane speed unless I saw it with my own eyes- not necessarily even a Volodos or Hamelin.

That would make you one pessimistic person. This somehow reminded me of Thomas the Apostle.

I think that if several pianists could do this, they are more likely of the unknown variety, like the one OSK posted. I remain in the 'pessimistic' camp also.

It looks difficult, but if you put 4-5 on the top notes (or bottom, for the l.h) and have a piano with a good action that allows you to push/pull your thumb quickly... it's certainly not inconceivable. Also, the pedal certainly helps add to the effect. I'm certain any number of professional pianists could pull the same trick. For technical wizardry I can never figure out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKCZZf6ixj4

(After a program of Rach etudes and the chopin preudes, no less)

Seems like we have 3 optimistic and crazy guys here, so far.

Btw, Jonnyboy, I was looking for that video just before you posted it! Thanks.

I'd have an easier time believing that a lot of top pianists could do that.

Sadly, it's inconceivable if you have small hands. Place 4 and 5 on top? impossible unless I use my toes.

It's not as hard as you might think. While nowhere near as fast, I've played it myself and I couldn't dream of playing a trills at an octave.

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/7564028#pm_cmp=vid_OEV_P_P

The octaves sound twice as fast as they really are, because they alternate.

I agree this time. :P Maybe 500 pianists can do that and only 40-50 that can do what Katsaris does in this video. It is somewhat difficult to believe though that this can be done by 500 pianists but what Katsaris does can be done only by 5-6 others. Can somebody justify this huge jump? What factor makes this so very different from the other videos presented here? The speeds of the octaves on either hand (separate) have been shown to match or exceed that displayed by Katsaris in that video. So is it solely due to the fact that now the two hands need to play these together than makes you guys estimate that only 3-4% of these pianists (like the ones in the videos presented) can do these double octave trills?

Ive read through it a couple times... Luckily I have fairly large hands which are flexible so personally I could find an octave trill more conceivable than playing Le Vol up to speed. while it doesn't contain anything individually as tricky as those octaves, Moto Perpetuo pieces for me are much harder than short bursts of "really hard hand crap" as my teacher might say. The idea of maintaining such a consant velocity... makes me queasy haha.
Same reason Chopin Etudes can be so tricky; the notes just keep coming!

Nyiregyhazi, you definitely have my respect for programing that! and very well done too!

Are you talking about when Horowitz intentionally drops a note from octave passages? I remember him mentioning that sometimes he plays single notes here and there during an octave passage, but he does so in such a away that the ear wouldn't be able to perceive the difference. Perhaps your ears are especially astute if you noticed the difference.

At that speed, much easier than you would think. There's a very similar passage near the beginning of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 7 and I've never had any problem executing the double-octave trill, even when I was playing it in my early teens.

Whatever it is he is doing, it ain't pretty. I heard him do this arrangement live a few years back - his virtuosity was freakishly impressive, all right, but it wasn't an experience I'd like to repeat, at least not in a concert hall. Maybe it would work at a circus, where there wouldn't be any expectations of any musical interest.

This is probably overly generalized, but in my listening experience, there really seems to be some kind of correlation between extremes of virtuosity and musical lapses.

I was hoping somebody here might have actually done it, thanks for chiming in!

Btw, Nyiregyhazi, do you have a better recording of the bumblebee that you played in that video? Your hands did impressive stuff indeed but I couldn't make out what was being played at all. If you can play that well, you should try practicing the double octave trill.. I'm not advanced enough (but I wouldn't mind giving it a shot either!) and I actually think some of you might be able to do it. And if you some you can do it (even a sloppy job of it), top concert pianists can do it (at a level similar to Katsaris').