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Joined: Sep 2004
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But the other, non-white, kids who got to the winners recitals might also be having fun! [/quote] Yes. That's exactly what I meant. They all seem to be having fun and and there is a lot of pride in their performances! [/quote] Yes, sorry that I misunderstood you. That’s a point that many Asian parents and kids worry about, though. Because of the already strong stereotype, it is quite easy to attribute Asian kids’ performance to parental pressure and see them as little learning machines who don’t have fun. Even though this is true for some Asian kids (and non-Asian kids), many kids excel at certain areas because they are internally driven and are willing to put in the effort, and they really are having fun. Some Asian parents actually think that Chua’s article will have a long-lasting damaging effect on Asian kids. It’s easy to reinforce a stereotype, but extremely difficult to get rid of one.
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It’s easy to reinforce a stereotype, but extremely difficult to get rid of one. ![[Linked Image]](http://209.85.48.20/8151/61/0/e10475//e10475.jpg)
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I have a new 3rd grade student (had 2 lessons) and as she waited for her lesson to begin I saw she was reading book 4 of the Potter series. I commented and mother explained she is competing to have the most AR points at her school. That there is one child ahead of her. And if she wins she will be allowed to have a cat.
I would never have thought to try to get the most points. Why would you do that? What is the point? Actually, the point is to get kids to read books. The whole AR program has been somewhat successful in many school districts by encouraging students to read books and quantifying how "much" they've read. If reading books becomes a competition, I'll just live with it.
Last edited by AZNpiano; 01/15/11 04:08 PM.
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Maybe an overly provocative article to sell books as people say, but I found it interesting as Chinese (and Korean and some other nationalities) parenting is clearly different, but I don't know enough parents of these nationalities to know quite how. I don't feel sorry for the author's children - it sounds like they may have the best of both worlds.
The one place where I think her method of parenting goes wrong is never allowing the kid to fail or make their own mistakes. I think this can have dire consequences for the kids when they are grown.
I didn't read too many of the replies, but I wanted to reply to one of the earliest replies asking "What would she do if she had a disabled kid?" I was just reading an article about autistic kids in China. I guess there are special schools for autistic children, but the schools are for teaching the parents as well as the children, so the parents attend with the children. This is very hard on the family, because the schools are in the city, and it's difficult to afford to live in the city on one income, but of course one parent is always with the child, not bringing in an income. I think Chinese parents are greatly under-appreciated in the west! We just see, "Oh, the parents want the kids to excel so it reflects well on the parents" and not, "These parents will do just about anything to help their children succeed". I wasn't thinking so much about "chinese mothers" in general or severely disabled children when I made that remark as I was the reaction by the author personally when her daughter wasn't living up to her expectations of excellence with the little donkey song. I wondered if she would react the same to her daughter for not memorizing her spelling list to Mom's satisfaction? And if so, what if it turned out she had a learning disability like dyslexia that hadn't been diagnosed yet? How many trips would Mom have made to the salvation army before she questioned the possibility that maybe her daughter wasn't lazy?
I'll figure it out eventually. Until then you may want to keep a safe distance. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/ABF_Medals/3medals.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forumpicts/MOYD_2011/MOYD_1.gif)
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Bleh.
I'm tired of this mom.
My book could be called: If I'm not the worst mom that ever was, I may be the most boring, but I'd never make it into the Amazon top 100.
Learner
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I have a new 3rd grade student (had 2 lessons) and as she waited for her lesson to begin I saw she was reading book 4 of the Potter series. I commented and mother explained she is competing to have the most AR points at her school. That there is one child ahead of her. And if she wins she will be allowed to have a cat.
I would never have thought to try to get the most points. Why would you do that? What is the point? Actually, the point is to get kids to read books. The whole AR program has been somewhat successful in many school districts by encouraging students to read books and quantifying how "much" they've read. If reading books becomes a competition, I'll just live with it. Yeah. It's no big deal if someone works really hard to win a contest. It's all good. I'm sorry if I inadvertently contributed to the stereotype that the author promotes.
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Actually, don't get me started on the AR program.
[OT warning on]
The AR program (accelerated reader) is badly named. It is NOT designed as an "accelerated" program for gifted and/or avid readers. Its expressed purpose is to encourage marginal or struggling students to develop a reading habit. Parents of advanced students often confuse it for a truly "accelerated" program. This also goes for hyper-competitive parents who want their children to shine above their peers.
[OT warning off]
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Evidence? Her book is currently ranked #5 at Amazon. Well done, Amy.
Here I sheepishly admit that I was intrigued enough by the WSJ article and subsequent uproar that I helped propel it to that #5 ranking by ordering it.  Though I will also confess to feeling some unattractive envy after reading that she received an advance in the "high six figures" !!!! for the book, which she reportedly wrote in a mere 8 weeks. *sigh*
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The author had an effective publicist, or whatever the title is within the mechanism of publishing companies, who knew what to do to get sales. It was the cynical exploitation of the baser side of human nature: jealousy, anger, outrage, stereotyping etc. It may also have cost the author, because she is now seen by many as having views that she doesn't actually have. In fact, they are the opposite of what she intended when she wrote the book. I'm not sure that I would want to pay that price for the sake of sales.
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The author had an effective publicist, or whatever the title is within the mechanism of publishing companies, who knew what to do to get sales. I'm finding the title disturbing, as it keeps rumbling on in discussion here. Think which of these titles would be acceptable: Why Chinese Mothers are Inferior to Western Mothers Why Western Mothers are Superior to Chinese Mothers Why White Mothers are Superior to Black Mothers ??? Uugh - makes me shudder.
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Think which of these titles would be acceptable:
Why Chinese Mothers are Inferior to Western Mothers
Why Western Mothers are Superior to Chinese Mothers
Why White Mothers are Superior to Black Mothers
???
Uugh - makes me shudder. Yeah, I understand your angst, but I guess the title doesn't bother me that much. The content, on the other hand .... The language of the title is just shorthand for differences in cultural approach to a specific task (parenting), which is why I don't think the black/white analogy is all that apt.
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PRESENTING: Battle of the Maternal Stereotypes! Chinese Mother vs Jewish Mother! Wontons vs latkes at twenty paces! (Winner to receive choice of new Bosendorfer or HongKong) 
Slow down and do it right. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forumpicts/MOYD12/MOYD_789012.gif)
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OK, thread resurrection: IMO, a brilliant rejoinder to Chua. She's actually a wimp who shields her children from the truly difficult cognitive learning experiences! Amy Chua is a Wimp
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Guys, I actually (sadly) read the book. The title of the journal article was quite misleading in that, the book doesn't read that way. It was an interesting view into a psychotic mother's need to control everything her children did/could do. In a way, Mrs. Chua spent the entire book glorifying the accomplishments of her children (winning 1st place at so and so competition) with the occasional not winning being the twists in the book.
Mrs. Chua's children already had quite a natural gift for music, it is unrealistic that every child would turn out the way her children did. I also couldn't help but feel disgusted (ENVIOUS) by the lengths Mrs. Chua took to win competitions/recitals (paying thousands of dollars to bring a music teacher along to an audition). I mean, SERIOUSLY? This is a very privileged family's story. They are very well-off financially to do the things they did with their children and had connections to powerful individuals who helped provide opportunities for the daughters to succeed in music. In short, there were many many advantages that these children had in order to succeed in music (not just talent) -- which Mrs. Chua completely ignores to acknowledge in the book.
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Chua seems to be backpeddling a bit - Tough Love Chinese Style
Slow down and do it right.
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i have a Chinese friend, in her 40s, I wondered why she hated flowers, and once she got really angry when i commented on a blossoming dogwood tree... Any remark like "oh look at that ... bloodroot, or tulip, or forsythia"... would cause a sort of spitting sound of disdain. I later found out her father decided she should become an artist, and she spent many many hours as a teenager learning to paint flowers! She didn't even care to talk about it. So... when the Chinese approach works, it works-- and when it doesn't, it REALLY doesn't! (One day, out hiking, my friend said quietly, as if to herself, "Oh, pretty" when we passed a stand of trillium, and I didnt say anything, just felt it was good for her own soul to say that)
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I wouldn't say Chinese parenting skills are better than Western parents'. I'd say that in general, Asian culture places emphasis on values that are different from Westerners. That said, I dont think it is fair to generalize Chinese in such a way.
Although my parents were strict, I was not force to get straight A or practise the piano. I had to beg for piano lessons. When I practised too much my mum would ask me to shut up. Several times she would attempt to end my piano lessons, saying that I'm good enough and no longer need lessons. I can hardly remember my mum asking me to practise music or do my homework, or requesting straight A. I only remember getting caned for getting a D!
Although I didn't turn out to be one of the top students, I managed ok as an "above average students" from primary school through to university, now ended up as a chartered accountant as my profession. I still love music, practicing violin almost everyday for the past 7 years, and now the piano. Would I achieve more if I had those "Chinese tough love"? Maybe, but I'd say I'd be a lot more unhappy and stressing myself out for not living in a big mansion, driving expensive cars and not having anything for my patents to brag about. I'm glad I didn't get the tough love! The thing I got from my parents is to be self-sufficient and strive to be a good person.
Be yourself
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Because I have common sense (something Ms Chua seems to lack) I have 2 questions:
1 - what happens when you have several "Tiger Mothers" in a class? There can only be one "First Place." Demanding your child be first in every activity does not work very well if everyone is doing it.
2 - This woman is a freakin' Yale Law Professor, something one would ASSUME is a more-than-full-time job. How on earth did she have time to spend what sounds like 20 hours a day doing things like supervise 3 hours of piano/violin practice, or 2000 math problems a night (as an aside...how is that even possible??? At one problem per minute wouldn't it take 33 1/2 hours to do 2000 problems???).
One of a zillion articles 'about' her article pointed out that her claims a questionable. Chua claims her 3 year old was 'reading Satre'...it turns out the kid just recognized the words "No Exit."
Sounds sketchy to me...
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One of my sons actually taught himself to read his first book when he just turned 4. Of course it was an even more difficult book than Satre...it was "Thomas the Tank Engine." My wife and I were incredibly surprised. Yes, we checked to be sure it wasn't just memorizing what was on the page. I wrote some of the words on a piece of paper and it became clear that he figured out some basic phonics on his own. I believe that he didn't want to wait for us to read this book to him so he just tried to figure it out on his own.
Mr. Peabody
Oh...and by the way, I happen to be...(OMINOUS MUSIC)...CHINESE! (Call social services right away!)
Last edited by Mr. Peabody; 01/20/11 07:12 PM.
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Oh I have no doubt that preschool kids can learn to read. I'll never forget the day my little brother, who was about 4, had been messing with my Partridge Family albums (yes, this dates me, I know). He told me he put them all back in their cardboard sleeves. Since the records all looked identical I thought he'd just stuck them in random covers, and was irritated. When I looked I saw that they were all in the right covers! I asked him how he did it and he said, matter-of-factly..."I read them"(!) Mom and I were both astounded, no one had ever worked with him much or tried to teach him. He just picked it up! However, this is a far, far, cry from "reading Sartre"...(as was what Ms Chua's daughter apparently did). She seems to embellish the truth quite a bit. Makes me want to suggest someone digs thru her academic publications and do some fact checking
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