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#1602247 - 01/21/11 01:51 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: eweiss]
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2076
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
The community is judging here.

I get it. And once again, no problem here. But let Dave participate and add a sig file like the rest of us. His 'specialness' is of no consequence here.



You make it sound like the policy on advertising is that you have to advertise. I don't get it. You've posted your link to your web site, what, ten times in this thread already, and Dave hasn't done so even once. And now you're demanding that he start posting his web site?
_________________________
Charles Lang
Working on: A Night in Tunisia; Memories of Tomorrow (Keith Jarrett).
Just started: Brazilian Like (Michel Petrucciani)

Baldwin Model R (1974), Hardman 5'9" grand (1915), Rieger-Kloss 42.5" vertical

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Piano & Music Accessories
#1602249 - 01/21/11 01:52 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: charleslang]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: charleslang
I don't get it.

You obviously don't. Read Ken Knapp's post on page one of this thread and you might.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1602268 - 01/21/11 02:13 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
What's a sig file?

The notes that connect the roots of the chords in the basslines very well may include a chromatic notes(s), often as approaches to the next root. But you don't want to set it in stone, lots of possibilities exist. The best way to practice is to do the thing where you're trying to find *all* the possibilities of going from one root to another, over a 251 prog or something similar. Try some possibilities where you use chromatic approaches to the next root, and some where you don't. The common denominator that makes the bassline work is the melodic quality of the line, sometimes using whole steps, sometimes half steps, intervals, etc.
As long as it sounds like a decent melody, you're home.
After you practice trying out many possibilities, when you're improvising your ear will put it together spontaneously in the moment in new and surprising, or old and familiar ways..very important to go real slow to start.

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#1602271 - 01/21/11 02:16 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5283
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
So it seems the conundrum is this:

Ed posts the link to his website in his sig. Dave does not. So, Ed thinks that Dave really wants people to go to his web site to buy stuff. But since Dave doesn't post a link, and never references his web site, to most of us that does not appear to be true.

Ed thinks that his posts are objected to as marketing *because* he posts a link to his website in his sig, which meets PW policy, and that it is unfair that Dave can post here without getting objections to his marketing. But, of course, the reason Dave doesn't get objections is because no one can find any marketing.

So from what I can tell, it isn't true that Dave is marketing - I think Ed is mistaken about that. But, Ed wants Dave to put a link to his website in his signature, so that, maybe, people will also object to *his* posts as *marketing*. And Ed is trying to claim that it already is, with which I disagree.

But, I don't think the policy is that one must post a link to a website in one's sig. One is asked to identify one's self as an industry professional. One needn't post a link to do that. One of the piano teachers simply states "I am a piano teacher" in his sig. So both Dave and Ed could post "I play piano professionally" in their sigs, no links, and be within policy, as far as I can tell.

And both of them can link to youtube, with no selling of their website, and have no objections from me.

But as it stands, I don't see how Dave can be "marketing" when there's no reference at all to his website :\

I agree with jazzwee, though. Ed can post his youtube stuff, with no link in his sig to his website I might add, just a note that he plays professionally or that he's a piano teacher, and see if there's any objections for "marketing" his website, and/or any interest in his videos. That seems to me to be a more level comparison.

Just me.

Cathy
_________________________

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#1602274 - 01/21/11 02:20 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Dave has not just been sticking videos in here Ed. He's popped in frequently in the Jazz threads on ABF so he obviously reads it once in awhile.

Again, I'm not really criticizing you as much as I don't want Dave Frank to stop posting this stuff. Neither do I want him to be discouraged from doing so.

I understand that if some "new age" great like Yanni wants to post "instructional videos" here, someone will undoubtedly find that that interesting.

A similar thing happening is the frequent posting of videos by Music32 from her blog. A lot of it is out of context but if people get some value of it, then they'll respond. Otherwise, it just falls out of the page. That's democracy for you.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#1602282 - 01/21/11 02:29 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
jazzwee Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: davefrank
The notes that connect the roots of the chords in the basslines very well may include a chromatic notes(s), often as approaches to the next root. But you don't want to set it in stone, lots of possibilities exist. The best way to practice is to do the thing where you're trying to find *all* the possibilities of going from one root to another, over a 251 prog or something similar. Try some possibilities where you use chromatic approaches to the next root, and some where you don't. The common denominator that makes the bassline work is the melodic quality of the line, sometimes using whole steps, sometimes half steps, intervals, etc.
As long as it sounds like a decent melody, you're home.
After you practice trying out many possibilities, when you're improvising your ear will put it together spontaneously in the moment in new and surprising, or old and familiar ways..very important to go real slow to start.


I have this book about the LH and it goes more specifically. For example, he says, in ii-V-I's, downward on ii-V and upward on I is all diatonic steps.

Upward on ii-V and downward on I needs a chromatic.

I knew that instinctively but it really helped me to realize there's a pattern.

Also, walking bass is easier on ii-V-I, or blues but, man, it's difficult on more unusual progressions! smile

I was having problems for a long time with keeping solid time with the LH while improvising on the right. So based on your video, I just cut the phrases to be very short and I kept in control longer. It just meant I went past my comfort level.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

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#1602290 - 01/21/11 02:39 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: jazzwee]
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5283
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
Dave has not just been sticking videos in here Ed. He's popped in frequently in the Jazz threads on ABF so he obviously reads it once in awhile.

Again, I'm not really criticizing you as much as I don't want Dave Frank to stop posting this stuff. Neither do I want him to be discouraged from doing so.

I understand that if some "new age" great like Yanni wants to post "instructional videos" here, someone will undoubtedly find that that interesting.

A similar thing happening is the frequent posting of videos by Music32 from her blog. A lot of it is out of context but if people get some value of it, then they'll respond. Otherwise, it just falls out of the page. That's democracy for you.



I agree about music32. I haven't seen anything that tells me she's selling anything. But the ABF is beginning to ignore her laugh And the longest thread in the pianist corner that she started has maybe two posts in her support, many wondering why she's posting, and many many from Nyiregyhazi and liszt85, in which N.. is totally off the wall, IMNSO laugh

So, again, for me, the issue really is marketing. And if Dave has no posts about his web site, he's not really marketing. And if he, or Ed, don't link to a web site in their sig, but just say "I play professionally" or "I teach piano", then their posts would look much like music32's, which can be read or not read with zero sense that there's any marketing. To me, anyway. Her link is to her blog, and, yes, I think she's just flogging her blog. But there's nothing being sold at her blog. She's just flogging her blog. Maybe she wants to sell something in the future. That's certainly a possibility. But at the minute she's not "marketing" in the sense that she wants to encourage a profit to her by flogging her blog. That's the way I see it, anyway.

So, the level playing field, for me, if for Ed to just say "I teach new age piano" in his sig, post away, and people can read/not read/respond/not respond/ask, either in the thread or by PM, if they can somehow take lessons from Ed. Or, leave the sig link, post away with youtube videos that don't reference his web site, and put up with the additional possibility that people will respond as if he's advertising, and let the mods sort it out.

But I still don't think Dave is advertising or marketing, because I can't find a way to figure out how to buy something. I guess I could PM and ask if he has anything to sell, or post in the thread and ask.

Cathy


Edited by jotur (01/21/11 02:41 PM)
_________________________

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#1602312 - 01/21/11 03:10 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
Cudo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 127
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
Originally Posted By: davefrank
What's a sig file?

The notes that connect the roots of the chords in the basslines very well may include a chromatic notes(s), often as approaches to the next root. But you don't want to set it in stone, lots of possibilities exist. The best way to practice is to do the thing where you're trying to find *all* the possibilities of going from one root to another, over a 251 prog or something similar. Try some possibilities where you use chromatic approaches to the next root, and some where you don't. The common denominator that makes the bassline work is the melodic quality of the line, sometimes using whole steps, sometimes half steps, intervals, etc.
As long as it sounds like a decent melody, you're home.
After you practice trying out many possibilities, when you're improvising your ear will put it together spontaneously in the moment in new and surprising, or old and familiar ways..very important to go real slow to start.


Hi Dave,

in my opinion the function of a basslines is similar as a "cantus firmus".
In a way it forms a two part counterpoint with the melody.
For that reason its melodic curve does not only depent by itself but also on the melody.
Playing basslines over II-7 V7 IMA7 progressions certainly helps a lot. But analysing and trying to improvise on Bachs Inventions opens your mind also a lot regarding basslines. It gives you a real poliphonic feel and not only the impression that basslines "only" have to "serve". I think you know what I mean.

Here's an example demonstrating what I am intending with improvised basslines as a counterpoint to the melody.

Inventio 1

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#1602315 - 01/21/11 03:14 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
nice

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#1602329 - 01/21/11 03:35 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: jazzwee]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3724
Loc: Rockford, IL


Originally Posted By: jazzwee
[...]Dave didn't give a "teaser" here so you can pay for more lessons. He's explaining the whole COMPLETE concept![...]


Originally Posted By: jotur
[...]But I still don't think Dave is advertising or marketing, because I can't find a way to figure out how to buy something. I guess I could PM and ask if he has anything to sell, or post in the thread and ask.[...]


I just wanted to +1 these notions as a way of adding my $.02 from the $8 I just got.

Kidding, kidding!!! But I find these rolling bar fights interesting. They spill into threads, make a bunch of noise, and then move on...

Please, Dave, keep the videos coming! The first one I saw was the Play Like Chico Marx. I thought, "Man, this is cool! Who is this guy? He can PLAY!" Ha-ha! Your videos are SUCH a blessing!

--Andy (I am not an expert, but I play one on PianoWorld)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#1603103 - 01/22/11 05:04 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
EJR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 861
Loc: Bristol, UK
Dave,

I know bugger all about Jazz, but watched your series and wanted to let you know how Inspirational and totally Awesome it is!

Thank you so much for taking the time and posting this series!
_________________________


Daily ramblings....

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#1603697 - 01/23/11 12:35 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
thanks dave this was so inspiring and insightful. wow

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#1604216 - 01/23/11 10:55 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: eweiss]
PaintedPostDave Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 492
Loc: Upstate New York
ERWEISS: "Please. From the kindness of his heart? He wants you to go to his website and purchase stuff."

Please, Erweiss, let it go. How do you know what Dave Frank wants me to do? I suggest that you mind your own business.

I sampled the Frank clinic on bass lines and got a lot out it. I paid nothing and expect to pay nothing in the future. However, next time I visit NYC, if I happen to go to a club where Dave is playing, I will probably collar him for a minute and thank him personally for the clinic.
_________________________
Dave Koenig
Yamaha M1A console
1927 Knabe 7' 8" grand
https://sites.google.com/site/analysisofsoundsandvibrations/

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#1604582 - 01/24/11 12:41 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: PaintedPostDave]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
Hey Dave, you owe me 8 bucks.

Dave Frank

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#1604774 - 01/24/11 05:09 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
custard apple Online   blank
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2263
Loc: Sydney
hahahhh so how's the collection going Dave ? laugh

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#1604777 - 01/24/11 05:16 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
I made 16 bucks but I lost it all on a horse:(

DF

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#1604783 - 01/24/11 05:35 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Dave,

Would you recommend learning basslines from famous bass players? If so, who ?

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#1604793 - 01/24/11 06:08 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
Nothing to lose by doing that, I don't think it's necessary though. I'd go with Ray Brown, Paul Chambers. Niels-Henning Orsted Peterson to start..

DF

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#1605154 - 01/25/11 08:37 AM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
flat13sharp11 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 117
Loc: Lancashire, UK
I have to say I don't know how the heck that is what you would call advertising. We have a jazz genius who is doing a piano masterclass youtube video for FREE and is giving so much back to the jazz community yet some people call that advertising?!!

It's all a bit too politically correct (or whatever is the correct term) for me.

I think your videos Dave are absolutely superb and I have learnt so much from them- especially from the Bill Evans masterclass! Brilliant!

Thanks
Tim
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/user/timwood1987

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#1605204 - 01/25/11 10:15 AM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
saiman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 125
Guys remember there is 20% interest on late payments to the clinic account

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#1605210 - 01/25/11 10:34 AM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
I'm enjoying preparing the next one - the wild Erroll Garner. This is really a kooky guy, amazing dynamics..

DF

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#1605215 - 01/25/11 10:41 AM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2940
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Will you be sitting on a phone book? Or maybe you could sit on all those checks you got from the last clinic.

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#2030079 - 02/09/13 08:46 PM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: davefrank]
DaveRobertsJazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/08/09
Posts: 74
Great stuff, Dave, thanks for doing these. I learned a lot and it's very inspirational.

I just have a few suggestions if you'll consider doing more bassline video.

1) Show various approaches to playing 3/4 bass lines. Perhaps you did, but I don't recall it. If you want to get advanced you could also show 5/4 bass lines or other time signatures.

2) Show approaches to playing Latin bass lines, particularly bossa.

3) Show approaches to playing blues bass lines.

4) Discuss the harmonic/scalar rules of bass lines. In other words, what bass notes can/should you play on a major chord, a minor chord, dominant, etc.?

I assume you want to mostly stay in the key implied by each chord. Or is that necessary? Is it OK to play just about anything as long as you land on the chord root on a regular basis or outline the chord now and then?

Thanks again.

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#2030190 - 02/10/13 12:33 AM Re: Walking Bassline Clinic with Dave Frank now on Youtube [Re: DaveRobertsJazz]
davefrank Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 646
Thanks for your time and suggestions, good ones. Off-topic I spent tonight doing the final edits on the next class "Beginning Improvising Using Modal Vamps", should be up maybe tomorrow. This one is for beginning improvisers, there will be a part 2 for advanced players. It takes one step-by-step into the improv process, this time over a repetitive modal vamp. Can't wait to share it.

In terms of basslines, most of the time its best to use scale/chord/chromatic tones. But if it sounds good it's good) Kinda reminiscent of the old review of Wagner's opera, "Wagner's music is better than it sounds"

Blessings and keep swingin, let's all watch Chick Corea, Stanley Clarke and Kenny Garrett tomorrow night on the Grammys doing a tribute to Dave Brubeck! YAY CHICK!!

DF


Edited by davefrank (02/10/13 12:33 AM)

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