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#1601163 - 01/19/11 10:21 PM How Does Keith Jarrett Do it?
charliehornsby Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 45
Loc: Los Angeles
i was watching Keith's version of ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE...

one thing I can't get over is noticing ALL THE IDEAS and phrases he seems to cram into an octave. I'm not a teacher and i'm working on my jazz chops, but for those of you more seasoned and experienced, i would love for your to weigh in your observations and thoughts about his playing in this piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLCGWh-VZhI&feature=related

again, what's striking to me is how many ideas he has stuffed into just an octave or two. it seems that he could solo endlessly in just an octave, constantly coming up with different phrasings and patterns.

Maybe you guys can offer a better perspective than me... i welcome your thoughts...

And more importantly, how do I get this into MY playing?! smile


Edited by charliehornsby (01/19/11 10:23 PM)
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#1601269 - 01/20/11 03:41 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
cruiser Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1171
Loc: Cornwall, England
Hi Charlie

...ah yes, the genius that is Keith Jarrett!

I'm not particularly "seasoned" or "experienced" but I can suggest that you read this important book. It's been endorsed by Keith and I believe it will go a long way to answering your question.

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#1601353 - 01/20/11 09:12 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i love Jarrett. I have many transcriptions and one book of his music. I don't play well by ear, so reading sheet music, how he plays and has composed is most helpful for me.

there are these exercises...
Jarrett exercises posted here before .

and this thread with many helpful links. I particularly listen to Jarrett on my ipod while playing his sheet music.. that works pretty well for me.

I wanna play like Jarrett


_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1601448 - 01/20/11 12:34 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: charliehornsby
And more importantly, how do I get this into MY playing?! smile

It starts by trusting your intuition. Once you get enough technique under your belt, time to let go and let the music tell you where it wants to go. smile
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#1601553 - 01/20/11 03:40 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
charliehornsby Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 45
Loc: Los Angeles
APPLE! great link!!!!!!! thank you!


very cool stuff!
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#1601711 - 01/20/11 07:54 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
limavady Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 379
Loc: California
looks like the link was removed probably a rule...any chance you can describe how to get there?

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#1602039 - 01/21/11 07:35 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
the link works here in KS.. i tried sending it by PM.
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love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1602270 - 01/21/11 02:15 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
He's playing very fast in the clip you posted. Improvising is like extemporaneous speaking in a foreign language. Jarrett knows the language very well and can play (speak) a lot at a very fast tempo. Jarrett has been at it for many years and worked really hard when he was young to get really good at an early age. So that's how he does it.

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#1602273 - 01/21/11 02:18 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
For Jarrett, outlining the chord changes with arpeggios and or continuous scale lines is like the A, B, Cs. He really knows how to do it in a fluent musical way... you can have all the inspiration and good intentions in the world but you won't get close to what Jarrett does if you don't know how to outline changes with single note lines. You should become very good at that if you hope to approach his kind of playing.

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#1602362 - 01/21/11 04:37 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: Jazz+]
limavady Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 379
Loc: California
apple, oops my mistake; didn't realize that was the link, looking for something with a url or something! Thanks for the effort in sending the pm! mike

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#1604726 - 01/24/11 03:56 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: limavady]
charliehornsby Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 45
Loc: Los Angeles
Jazz Plus. thank you for the insight. this is all great stuff. at least i am starting to understand the mechanics behind it. i mean, i at least know what sounds good. i hear what he's doing as a listener, but techincally, i wasn't sure. i had theories and thoughts, but this gives me insight as to what's going on.

i appreciate the conversation and the dialogue. it's a huge help and i can use this to practice. please feel free to add any other thoughts and insights. they are welcomed smile
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#1604909 - 01/24/11 08:37 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: limavady]
charliehornsby Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 45
Loc: Los Angeles
Jazz Plus. thank you for the insight. this is all great stuff. at least i am starting to understand the mechanics behind it. i mean, i at least know what sounds good. i hear what he's doing as a listener, but techincally, i wasn't sure. i had theories and thoughts, but this gives me insight as to what's going on.

i appreciate the conversation and the dialogue. it's a huge help and i can use this to practice. please feel free to add any other thoughts and insights. they are welcomed smile
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#1604912 - 01/24/11 08:46 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: cruiser]
charliehornsby Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 45
Loc: Los Angeles
thanks cruiser! i just ordered that book. great call!
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#1607178 - 01/28/11 01:35 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Transcribe Transcribe Transcribe.

I know plenty of people who actually went as far as to learn an entire album worth of music... they play along with the entire record note-by-note without any music at all... my friend actually did that plus learned the solos in all keys. It will take over an year to be able to do that, but after doing that, you can't help but to have those things come out in your playing.

I did learn Chick Corea's "Matrix" solos in 2 keys...I must have spent close to 4 months on it... it took me a while but some of that stuff is coming out in my playing. At first you are going to feel like the work you put in hasn't translated to any progress, but you start hearing new things, and coming up with your own way to play jarrett-like ideas over some changes.

Also, remember that this is a very slow process, be prepared to spend at least an year working through stuff like this. Some people make it their lifetime study to do stuff like this.

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#1630264 - 02/28/11 09:26 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: eweiss]
John_In_Montreal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 397
Loc: Montreal Canada
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Originally Posted By: charliehornsby
And more importantly, how do I get this into MY playing?! smile

It starts by trusting your intuition. Once you get enough technique under your belt, time to let go and let the music tell you where it wants to go. smile



Sounds like what I'm aiming for smile

John

PS: I still immensely enjoy Jarrett's early works (Koln Concert & Bremen/Lausanne), been listening to them for well over 30 years.
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Instrument: Rebuilt Kurzweil K2500XS and a bunch of great vintage virtual keyboards. New Kurzweil PC3X.

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#1630386 - 03/01/11 01:39 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: eweiss]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Originally Posted By: charliehornsby
And more importantly, how do I get this into MY playing?! smile

Once you get enough technique under your belt, time to let go and let the music tell you where it wants to go. smile


That's A LOT of technique to get under your belt to be able to play the kind of stuff Keith Jarrett does. You're talking about having enough chops to be able to do stuff like Chopin Etudes easily, and having really incredible ears. It took me like 3-4 months to learn a single Chick Corea solo like "Matrix", and well, someone like Keith Jarrett can probably play it by hearing it once.

I don't think the thread is about how to let things come out in your playing, as in improvising.. it's more about how to be able to do it at the level that Keith Jarrett does.. and that's something you might able to attain after 20 years diligent practice.

I remember in Malcom Gladwell's "Outliers", he talks about how most composers spend at least 15 years of training before they can produce something significant. I don't think improvising is any different.

I don't mean to sound too intimidating, but playing like Jarrett really is like asking someone if you can climb mount Everest. The question is, as one of my teacher put it.. are you really ready for that kind of spiritual commitment to put in that hours of practice and perfect your art? Bill Evans, John Coltrane, and most masters we know have put int 5-8hrs daily so that they have enough musical chops to let it come out. Are you ready to do that?


Edited by etcetra (03/01/11 01:43 AM)

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#1630435 - 03/01/11 04:34 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: etcetra]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1308
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: etcetra
I remember in Malcom Gladwell's "Outliers", he talks about how most composers spend at least 15 years of training before they can produce something significant. I don't think improvising is any different.

It's 10.000 hours or approx 10 years - but who's counting smile
http://www.recipesforlearning.com/science-art-joy-learnin/10-thousand-hours/
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#1630441 - 03/01/11 04:54 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1308
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Originally Posted By: charliehornsby
And more importantly, how do I get this into MY playing?! smile


Not necessary in this order:
Play a lot of classical; Chopin, Ravel, Bach, Mozart.
Improvise on those tunes.
Play a lot of Jazz; ragtime, be-bop, free.
Even more improvising.
Listen closely to Ahmed Jahmals "white" album, Paul Bley's "Footloose" and "Open to Love".
Play some gospel and mix in some blues.
Learn to play the drums and when you think you're done; learn to play the soprano sax.
Learn Beatles songs - but on the guitar, sing them too in public.
Record your own pop album with you singing and then decide: "never again".
Sit for two months playing cocktail piano in a fancy restaurant in Stockholm, Sweden.
Learn the recorder. Learn the bass recorder.
Record an album playing the recorders and banging some drums.
Go to Germany, sit in a draughty church and pull out all the stops - have some fun playing the organ.
Meet with haughty German dude in Oslo, Norway whilst on tour with a major jazz soloist dude, in whose band you are playing electric keyboards and record in one day a solo piano album.
Yet again go to Germany, sit down with a Clavichord at either hand and record an album in a day.
Do two TV-shows with a couple of Norwegians and a couple of Swedes and then decide: "let's do an album, lets call it Belonging and let's do only first-takes."
Decide to play tunes from the Great American Songbook for 30-odd years and in-between throw in some solo concerts.
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#1630456 - 03/01/11 06:13 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: chrisbell]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3328
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: chrisbell
Originally Posted By: charliehornsby
And more importantly, how do I get this into MY playing?! smile


Not necessary in this order:
Play a lot of classical; Chopin, Ravel, Bach, Mozart.
Improvise on those tunes.
Play a lot of Jazz; ragtime, be-bop, free.
Even more improvising.
Listen closely to Ahmed Jahmals "white" album, Paul Bley's "Footloose" and "Open to Love".
Play some gospel and mix in some blues.
Learn to play the drums and when you think you're done; learn to play the soprano sax.
Learn Beatles songs - but on the guitar, sing them too in public.
Record your own pop album with you singing and then decide: "never again".
Sit for two months playing cocktail piano in a fancy restaurant in Stockholm, Sweden.
Learn the recorder. Learn the bass recorder.
Record an album playing the recorders and banging some drums.
Go to Germany, sit in a draughty church and pull out all the stops - have some fun playing the organ.
Meet with haughty German dude in Oslo, Norway whilst on tour with a major jazz soloist dude, in whose band you are playing electric keyboards and record in one day a solo piano album.
Yet again go to Germany, sit down with a Clavichord at either hand and record an album in a day.
Do two TV-shows with a couple of Norwegians and a couple of Swedes and then decide: "let's do an album, lets call it Belonging and let's do only first-takes."
Decide to play tunes from the Great American Songbook for 30-odd years and in-between throw in some solo concerts.


I can play the recorder. That's got to be a start. wink
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#1630463 - 03/01/11 06:50 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
My kids LOVE the Koln Concert. THey found my CD on I-Tunes (which they use too) and broadcast it thruout the house with one of their fancy ipod things. It's much nicer to hear than Justin Bieber.

We've heard at least 20 times this month. I couldn't be happier.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1630469 - 03/01/11 07:04 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: etcetra]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1171
Loc: uk south

Originally Posted By: etcetra


I don't mean to sound too intimidating, but playing like Jarrett really is like asking someone if you can climb mount Everest.


No it's lot like that at all. Lots of people climb everest but there is only one Keith Jarrett.



Originally Posted By: etcetra

I don't think the thread is about how to let things come out in your playing, as in improvising.. it's more about how to be able to do it at the level that Keith Jarrett does.. and that's something you might able to attain after 20 years diligent practice.


Dream on.
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#1630541 - 03/01/11 09:24 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: etcetra]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: etcetra
That's A LOT of technique to get under your belt to be able to play the kind of stuff Keith Jarrett does. You're talking about having enough chops to be able to do stuff like Chopin Etudes easily, and having really incredible ears.

But technique alone will never get you there. What Jarrett does is simple - he stays in the present while he plays. Something I'm sure he learned via improvisation. When you can do this, what communicates is very deep. Which is why so many enjoy this guy's playing. What people hear is that X factor.
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#1630545 - 03/01/11 09:34 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: beeboss]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Beeboss

Maybe I wasn't clear on this. I am not saying you can be the next Keith Jarret per se, but to be able to "get enough technique under your belt, "let go and let the music tell you where it wants to go." , and to be able to let at a very high level like Keith(and incoporate his musical characteristics in your playing) requires years and years of practice. That's the only point I am making.

I know you've seen this, but I had this in mind as I wrote my last post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovqa_WG5z74

There are a lot of great players who can play really well and is strongly influenced/sound like someone. I think that's something one MIGHT be able to do with lots of practicing. But the percentage of people who can get there is still very small (hence the Mt. Everest analogy)

Besides, the point of jazz is not about playing like Keith Jarrett anyways... smile


ewiss

I agree that staying on the present/letting go is important, but then again that alone won't make you a good jazz musician either smile

I think the thread is more about the mechanic of playing like Keithjarrett.. as the OP said he is interested in all the ideas Keith Plays. You are not going to come up with these great musical ideas by playing with your heart. In fact, I'd imagine it will take couple of months to steal one idea from Keith Jarrett, work it in all keys and be able to do it in your playing naturally(which is one way that most people learn to "do it")

I guess my point is that that part of the craft takes years and years to learn, and it's important to see this is a very long term commitment.


Edited by etcetra (03/01/11 10:10 AM)

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#1630572 - 03/01/11 10:15 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
>> What Jarrett does is simple
Nothing KJ does is simple.
In fact, few can play in so many styles with such ease and perfect technique. KJ lets each and every single note ring with extreme precision, and controls each finger direction and dynamics as to let any voice come out.

That's what people get out of his solo piano. The perfection he has developed. People hear perfection.

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#1630576 - 03/01/11 10:21 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
knotty Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 2938
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
but back to the OP. It's actually reasonable to think someone could work up an arrangements of ATTYA such as KJ's and perform it.

Listen to Fred Hersh, lots of amazing stuff. His Bossa album is fantastic. Mehldau also.

This is what I would say as far as incorporating in your playing:

Transcribe a few of those spots where you have the multiple voices going. From a variety of artists.
Meanwhile, arrange a few heads in this style also. Your music.
For technique, you can either play those transcriptions, or work your way up Bach's WTC.
There's nothing like actually doing it.

KJ has a few versions of ATTYA, and while there's not all the same, they sound very similar.

Write stuff down... it sticks that way.

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#1630635 - 03/01/11 11:29 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: etcetra]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1171
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: etcetra
Beeboss

Maybe I wasn't clear on this. I am not saying you can be the next Keith Jarret per se, but to be able to "get enough technique under your belt, "let go and let the music tell you where it wants to go." , and to be able to let at a very high level like Keith(and incoporate his musical characteristics in your playing) requires years and years of practice. That's the only point I am making.

I know you've seen this, but I had this in mind as I wrote my last post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovqa_WG5z74

There are a lot of great players who can play really well and is strongly influenced/sound like someone. I think that's something one MIGHT be able to do with lots of practicing. But the percentage of people who can get there is still very small (hence the Mt. Everest analogy)

Besides, the point of jazz is not about playing like Keith Jarrett anyways... smile



You are right. It takes many many years to be able to able well, if we can ever achieve such a point. I am still hopeful.
It is just as well that playing like Jarrett is not our goal otherwise we may as well give up now.
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#1630638 - 03/01/11 11:32 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: knotty]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: knotty
That's what people get out of his solo piano. The perfection he has developed. People hear perfection.

And what is that 'perfection?' It's an artist expressing feeling. Intuiton and intellect combined and functioning as one. But intuition will ALWAYS contribute more to technique then vice versa. Why? Because when feeling leads, there's no end to the possiblities.
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#1630639 - 03/01/11 11:33 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: knotty]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1171
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: knotty


KJ has a few versions of ATTYA, and while there's not all the same, they sound very similar.


Except maybe the into to the version on 'tribute',that is in a class all its own imo

I love Hersh's Jobim album, I can't stop listening to desafinado, awesome.

That Thomas Rueckert track that etc linked to is amazing as well.
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#1630642 - 03/01/11 11:40 AM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Knotty

I agree. It's simple for him only because he's built enough facility to stay in the present let the music just flow out of him. I am guessing what people really want to know is how/what train yourself so that you can execute all these complex ideas and still stay in the present.

Think of it this way.. if you can learn 1 new Keith Jarrett idea every 2-3 months, you will have a decent amount of vocabulary in 5-10 years smile As far as I know, Most of Keith Jarrett's ideas are very straight-forward bebop idea.

Beeboss

I recently had a gig where I felt like I was leaving my body as I was playing. It was intense experience, but at the same time I've noticed how I wasn't prepared for it and my chops/time other problem kind of took me out of that experience. Ultimately I think it's about being able to stay there as we play, and that's why we want to play like Keith because you hear that emanating from him.


Edited by etcetra (03/01/11 11:59 AM)

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#1630664 - 03/01/11 12:12 PM Re: How Does Keith Jarrett Do it? [Re: charliehornsby]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Originally Posted By: knotty
That's what people get out of his solo piano. The perfection he has developed. People hear perfection.

And what is that 'perfection?' It's an artist expressing feeling. Intuition and intellect combined and functioning as one. But intuition will ALWAYS contribute more to technique then vice versa. Why? Because when feeling leads, there's no end to the possiblities.


I hate to sound rude, but I don't really see how all these new-age rhetoric is actually helping anyone become better improviser, specifically to be able to play like Keith.

Few things to consider

Does intuition always contribute ore than technique? You may be inspired but how does that help if you don't have the technique to hit the desired note at the right timing? Isn't that kind of like communicating to someone who doesn't speak your language? You might be able to communicate, but you wil be very inefficient.

How do you know for sure that when feeling leads, there's no end to the possiblities?... doesn't having better technique also open you up to new possibilities, maybe even possibilities that you might not realize when you are leading by feeling alone?


"And what is that 'perfection?' It's an artist expressing feeling. Intuiton and intellect combined and functioning as one."

Again, how does knowing that help anyone get there. I also thing what knotty meant by perfection is different. It has more to do with the idea of being able to do complex tasks accurately&effortlessly. It has just as much to do with technique as intuition.

I disagree with you, mainly because youm see to emphasize intuition over technique. You can't go without the other, and I think it's more beneficial to see them as one thing. Yes performance is about letting go of intuition, but as far as I know most great players spend hours at home improving technique on daily basis... and the time they spend on technique is way more than the time on their feeling/intuiting music


Edited by etcetra (03/01/11 12:13 PM)

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Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Went to the store and tried out lots of DPs
by lang15
04/17/14 09:18 PM
"Love More" Chris Brown and Nicki Minaj - Piano Cover
by Zach Evans
04/17/14 08:41 PM
Sheet music for Philip Glass's etudes?
by Eldridge
04/17/14 07:57 PM
Charles Walters piano
by Colleen05
04/17/14 07:05 PM
Why 88 keys?
by gsmonks
04/17/14 03:01 PM
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