2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
24 members (johnesp, clothearednincompo, crab89, JohnCW, Georg Z., Joseph Fleetwood, David B, 8 invisible), 1,265 guests, and 296 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
#1603585 01/23/11 11:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 320
slerk Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 320
Have you ever noticed how some pieces don't require just excellent technique but also something else to play well? Something that comes only after years of experience. I think it's what separates the geniuses who can play technically demanding pieces from the artists who truly understand the music.

Some pieces that come to mind are

Clair De Lune, Debussy
Moonlight Sonata, Mvmt.1

Have you observed this, or is it just my odd thinking?

slerk #1603639 01/23/11 12:28 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,905
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,905
I believe that what you say is true, but putting Debussy's "Clair de lune" in the category of music that requires depth of understanding is certainly ignoring great music for pretty music. "Clair de lune" a lovely piece of musical impressionism, if you like, but it certainly doesn't aspire to greatness.

For works that need life experience and understanding to be interpreted, not just played, I would talk, instead, of the late Beethoven Sonatas, much of Brahms, the Bach Goldberg Variations, the Schubert B-flat major (posth) Sonata along with many other works long before I would consider much of Debussy as profound music demanding maturity of interpretation.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
slerk #1603640 01/23/11 12:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
R
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
Technically demanding pieces played badly may fool the hoi polloi, but musical sensitivity and experience (not geniuses per say) separate the artists from the mechanics.

Edit: I think I posted at the same time as BruceD. But after reading his post, Clair de Lune, like many other massively popular classical pieces, suffer from overly beautiful, catchy melodies that lack depth and texture. Still a great piece, non-musical girls seem to love it, so.... blush






Last edited by Rui725; 01/23/11 12:32 PM.
slerk #1603641 01/23/11 12:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,701
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,701
If you take a musically immature individual (whatever that means) and provide that individual with a very detailed road map of dynamics and tempi and that individual successfully follows that road map, you, as a listener hear what?




Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,393
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,393
Originally Posted by BruceD
I believe that what you say is true, but putting Debussy's "Clair de lune" in the category of music that requires depth of understanding is certainly ignoring great music for pretty music. "Clair de lune" a lovely piece of musical impressionism, if you like, but it certainly doesn't aspire to greatness.

I think 'Clare de lune' is pretty great. Are you saying 'pretty music' can't be great?

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,159
L
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,159
Originally Posted by Dave Horne
If you take a musically immature individual (whatever that means) and provide that individual with a very detailed road map of dynamics and tempi and that individual successfully follows that road map, you, as a listener hear what?




Nothing, if he played on an N3. laugh Just kidding..

On a serious note: To successfully follow a road map of dynamics and tempi needs maturity because no amount of dynamic marking can fully convey what the composer really wants out of it. It takes a mature musician, well versed in the tradition, to execute those dynamic markings in an "authentic" fashion. What "authentic" is, is a judgment for the informed audience to make. The audience, according to you, I think is anybody who listens to you play. If I played Bach with jazzy chords on the left for accompaniment instead of contrapuntal lines, I'm sure there would be a huge appreciation for it by an audience like that but I don't think that reflects musical maturity by any means unless the audience is equally mature.

As Horowitz says: But the score is not a bible, and I am never afraid to dare. The music is behind those dots. You search for it, and that is what I mean by the grand manner. I play, so to speak, from the other side of the score, looking back. That requires maturity. It is the same roadmap given to you and me but he sees it differently from you or me.

slerk #1603675 01/23/11 01:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,701
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,701
To successfully follow a road map of dynamics and tempi needs maturity because no amount of dynamic marking can fully convey what the composer really wants out of it.

Royalties ... ? smile

I am not at all concerned what is in the mind of the performer, I just listen to the music. I suppose that's why most auditions for major orchestras are held with the performer behind a screen.

Have you ever noticed how some pieces don't require just excellent technique but also something else to play well?

It's very difficult to discuss something that can't be defined or quantified. What is ... something else? You ask ten people and you'll get different answers ... and that makes it difficult to communicate.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1X | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones

Moderated by  Brendan, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Pianodisc PDS-128+ calibration
by Dalem01 - 04/15/24 04:50 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,384
Posts3,349,164
Members111,630
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.