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#1607569 - 01/28/11 02:49 PM Re: My War on Homework [Re: keystring]
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3200
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: keystring

It is no coincidence that a disproportionate number of homeschooling parents are teachers, who sometimes put their own careers on hold in order to give their children a proper base.


I would like to see some data to support that.

In fact, I'd like to see ANY kind of decent data on ANY homeschooling issue. (outside of that host of articles by Dr. Brian Ray!)

But I risk digressing. Sorry. Back to topic.

Did you ever do physics problems? Or the similar kind of problem that is taught in engineering statics and dynamics courses? The concepts aren't that difficult. You'd think you could learn the concept, solve one problem as proof, and drive on to the next topic. But it doesn't work that way. Though I don't understand why, I can tell you from experience that after you grind through a sufficient number of problems something else is learned, and you can pass the exam. And if you don't do your homework, you had very little chance of passing the exam, at least in my classes.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#1607577 - 01/28/11 02:54 PM Re: My War on Homework [Re: pianoloverus]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
The only way to have an instuction personalized for every student so each gets just the right amount of practice is to have the entire course taught via computer. In a practical classroom setting a teacher should be teaching and assigning homework for somewhere near the middle ability level of the class.
In this country teachers are required to. It's called differentiation (sadly only done when the inspectors are around).
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1607593 - 01/28/11 03:21 PM Re: My War on Homework [Re: keyboardklutz]
kck Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 268
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
The only way to have an instuction personalized for every student so each gets just the right amount of practice is to have the entire course taught via computer. In a practical classroom setting a teacher should be teaching and assigning homework for somewhere near the middle ability level of the class.
In this country teachers are required to. It's called differentiation (sadly only done when the inspectors are around).


Wow - I don't agree with KBK every day of the week, but here I definitely do. smile Sadly, school systems in the US are in generally unable to think outside the NCLB box. There are cases of particular schools doing a good job, but that's certainly not the rule.

I think the base of homeschoolers in the US has changed drastically over the past 10 years. Our family doesn't fit any stereotype out there about homeschooing families. But we're in good company in our urban area.
_________________________
Amateur musician, piano and violin parent

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#1607649 - 01/28/11 04:53 PM Re: My War on Homework [Re: TimR]
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11688
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: TimR
Originally Posted By: keystring

It is no coincidence that a disproportionate number of homeschooling parents are teachers, who sometimes put their own careers on hold in order to give their children a proper base.


I would like to see some data to support that.

I threw away my homeschooling material a long time ago, Tim. My kids are young adults, and they both chose to go into the school system when they were high school age. Over here homeschoolers network. For example, you can get a science program, museum or factory tour - whatever is open for field trips and programs for schools - if you can get the numbers together. So we meet each other and there are also newsletters so that we can stay informed. I'm rather sure that this was mentioned in newsletters. But more than that, a disproportionate number of homeschooling parents were teachers. I did this for ten years.
Quote:

Did you ever do physics problems? Or the similar kind of problem that is taught in engineering statics and dynamics courses? The concepts aren't that difficult. You'd think you could learn the concept, solve one problem as proof, and drive on to the next topic. But it doesn't work that way. Though I don't understand why, I can tell you from experience that after you grind through a sufficient number of problems something else is learned, and you can pass the exam. And if you don't do your homework, you had very little chance of passing the exam, at least in my classes.

That is what I was thinking of.

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#1607666 - 01/28/11 05:26 PM Re: My War on Homework [Re: keyboardklutz]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19348
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
The only way to have an instuction personalized for every student so each gets just the right amount of practice is to have the entire course taught via computer. In a practical classroom setting a teacher should be teaching and assigning homework for somewhere near the middle ability level of the class.
In this country teachers are required to. It's called differentiation (sadly only done when the inspectors are around).
Required to do what? If you mean have every student in the same class proceed at a different pace suitable for them , I'd question how that is even remotely possible.

If differentiation is only done when inspectors are around, I'd guess that means it's mostly not done.

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#1607683 - 01/28/11 05:42 PM Re: My War on Homework [Re: keyboardklutz]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Here's ILPs for instance:
Quote:
Government see an effective Individual Learning Plan (ILP) being at the heart of assessment, learning, support and achievement. It helps the learner to become an active, motivated partner in learning and a key strand of the 14-19 entitlement, contributing to the raising of the participation age.
Learning providers may wish to combine the review and planning process at a single meeting. As with the review process, planning will only be effective for the learner if they feel ownership of the goals and have decided their own actions. Some schools and colleges may find it useful to use the ILP to engage parents and carers in the review of their child’s progress.
Do
It is desirable that the Plan/Do/Review cycle operates at subject level as well as whole institution level, and that subject reviews feed into the holistic Individual Learning Plan. It provides learner’s with a powerful tool for making comparisons across subjects by synthesising and analysing their skills development and performance across all aspects of their learning.
We used to call it a report card!

Here's another nifty quote:
Quote:
Although there may be common learning goals and methods of delivery for all learners on a particular course, it is unlikely that all learners have exactly the same learning styles, abilities, support needs, access to assessment in the workplace (if applicable), previous qualifications or experience. Too many vocationally-based courses have identical individual learning plans where only the names of learners are different. Some will struggle to achieve them while others will find them too easy and lose interest by not being sufficiently challenged.
There's thousands of pages of this stuff - all government sanctioned.

and:
Quote:
This is based upon screening, initial and diagnostic Assessment, and follows agreement with the learner on goals and targets. A completed ILP should include:

Results of assessments;

The learner’s long-term goals;

The goals of the program to be followed, cross-referenced to the national standards or core curriculum;

Any other goals that the learner wishes to achieve, both social and personal;

Targets and dates for meeting them;

A programme of dated progress reviews;

Space to record achievement of targets and any developments in the ILP;
I think I'd better stop now.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1608540 - 01/30/11 12:03 AM Re: My War on Homework [Re: keyboardklutz]
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 455
Loc: Canada
I put up the first damn the homework poster in my studio today. The first student that came and asked, "What's damn mommy?." I took the poster down. The mother thought that it was a good idea. frown

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#1610022 - 02/01/11 02:20 AM Re: My War on Homework [Re: keyboardklutz]
Mermanof83 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 55
Loc: California, USA
High school senior in the US here. My simple address to everything people in this thread are talking about is: it depends on the student.

I'll use math as an example here because it is such a homework heavy subject. I took Algebra 2 freshman year and didn't do half the homework that was assigned. I scored 97% on the final exam and finished the class with a C because of so many zeros on assignments. I took AP Calculus last year, didn't do a quarter of the homework assignments, then just studied efficiently in April and passed the AP exam with a 5, and the class with a B first semester, and an A second semester (less homework second semester).

I won't speak for others and their situations, but I'd just like to say that every student really needs different work loads and different teaching methods. In my eyes, the only possible way to at least partly address that is to assign homework, but make it optional.

I noticed a lot more 'busy-work' in middle school (like coloring assignments) than in high school, but a lot of high school work seems unnecessary to me, so I suppose you could term it busy-work as well. It is definitely a much more subjective label in high school, and not at all universal, because we almost never get useless assignments akin to coloring. They are generally for practice, whether needed or not.

Sadly, because of the necessity to cover material slowly in school in order to keep everyone on track, we won't be able to match home school's short hours.

As for assessing learning, testing isn't really that difficult an issue. I know most of the tests I've been taking in AP Stats this year cover the material pretty fairly and thoroughly. This isn't always the case (read: my sadistic Physics teacher marked us wrong when we screwed up on horribly written questions), but usually covers things. A certain amount of material needs to be covered by the end of the year, so break it up and mandate that everyone learns the material by certian checkpoints (tests). I don't really see the issue. I know some people don't test well, but excluding timed tests, if you know the material you should be able to pass a test.

Anyone want to ask a question of someone currently going through the US public school system?

Edit: Mechanics
Edit 2: Disclaimer - My opinion on testing is less developed and more subjective than my opinion on homework.


Edited by Mermanof83 (02/01/11 02:24 AM)
_________________________
But you can call me Brian.

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#1610033 - 02/01/11 03:03 AM Re: My War on Homework [Re: keyboardklutz]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Hey, you sound really together. +1! How typical of the education system that you get penalized for understanding your subject! Do you notice teachers are dumb?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1610456 - 02/01/11 04:29 PM Re: My War on Homework [Re: keyboardklutz]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
I was one of those students who could test wonderfully in some classes and have lackluster grades because I tended to forget to do my homework. There were some classes where I would do every assignment and still fail miserably on the tests and turning in my homework was the only reason I passed. Some students need the practice, but if you understand already there's no point in doing a page of work every night just to show that you did it. In the US it seems we do a lot in the schools to help the students who need more time and a slower pace but not much for those that are ready to move on quicker than others. I was actually scolded by a teacher when I was in JR High for reading ahead in the Literature book after I finished reading the current assignment. Pretty absurd, huh?
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


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#1610471 - 02/01/11 04:41 PM Re: My War on Homework [Re: Little_Blue_Engine]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: Little_Blue_Engine
Pretty absurd, huh?
I have some ruder words for it.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1610789 - 02/01/11 11:19 PM Re: My War on Homework [Re: keyboardklutz]
malkin Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 2551
Loc: *sigh* Salt Lake City
Absurd sounds right to me:
utterly or obviously senseless, illogical, or untrue; contrary to all reason or common sense; laughably foolish or false
_________________________
A good student is one who makes the teacher feel like a good teacher.

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