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#1606832 - 01/27/11 03:57 PM Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault!
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Seiji Ozawa was supposed to be the conductor for Martha's concert (Beethoven's first) and he apparently had surgery recently (for a herniated disc!!) and needs a (very) long recovery time. The concert was planned for April.
I kind of expected this when I bought the tickets almost a year ago, because Ozawa was diagnosed with some GI cancer (esophageal?.. ).. Sorry for him and for missing Argerich! Who knows when /if she will ever perform again solo (or near solo).. I bet she is relieved.. For a change, she did not initiate the cancellation. I don't know why they could not get a substitute conductor..

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#1606844 - 01/27/11 04:13 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
sarah_elizabeth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/09
Posts: 466
Loc: Texas, U.S.
I'm so sorry for you! How disappointing. I hope you can get a chance to hear her again.

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#1606857 - 01/27/11 04:31 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
I find it hard to believe they couldn't find a substitute conductor. I bet she was fussy about who she'd work with.

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#1606868 - 01/27/11 04:41 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8890
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
^ That's pretty much always been the case. No one was really surprised about the total cancellation on the Argerich db.
_________________________
Jason

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#1606872 - 01/27/11 04:48 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
We have tickets too, also bought way in advance, on the day that the tix became available last August; I had marked down the date and made sure to be working the phone at the exact moment when the sale began. And I likewise was ready for anything about it. Sorry to hear it of course, but thanks for giving the news -- this is the first I hear it.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1606888 - 01/27/11 05:04 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2913
If I were Martha Argerich, I probably would not accept a substitute conductor. In fact, that is probably what happened. It's not like there are no conductors available.
_________________________
(I'm a piano teacher.)

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#1606906 - 01/27/11 05:23 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Really? Ozawa or none?? Somebody of her calibre could easily get just about any conductor flown in for the evening or even make use of the NYPhil conductor or James Levine, or her buddy Dutoit etc..
Actually, I think the bigger problem was that this was in a "Japan" series that featured Ozawa and his group (? Japan Music Academy or somrthing of the sort); they also had another -different- concert on the following day that was cancelled.

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#1606918 - 01/27/11 05:36 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
reonat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 99
^Well it's not for just one concert. Ozawa has cancelled all of his concerts until august this year.
I had tickets to see her in Paris in april... so disapointed frown

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#1606919 - 01/27/11 05:38 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
I hope he is not very ill from his cancer. He may be frail from chemo, but such a long recovery following simple back surgery is inauspicious..

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#1606924 - 01/27/11 05:43 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19366
Loc: New York City
I've heard Argerich three or four times including a semi solo recital at Carnegie Hall. She never cancelled any of her concerts that I had tickets for. Probably because she knew I was coming.

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#1606929 - 01/27/11 05:47 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Really? Ozawa or none?? Somebody of her calibre could easily get just about any conductor flown in for the evening....

I don't think that works, especially with someone like her but really to some extent with anyone. It's not just getting someone who's real good and who knows the piece, etc. etc. It's having someone you really want -- in her case probably the person she wants.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1606935 - 01/27/11 05:54 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Gee, what a surprise...not.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1607058 - 01/27/11 09:14 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: stores]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: stores
Gee, what a surprise...not.

No no......for "not" jokes, you need to pause longer! ha

More like: "Gee, what a surprise..........not."

There was a little tutorial of sorts about that in "Borat." grin

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1607062 - 01/27/11 09:17 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Mark_C]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3796
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: stores
Gee, what a surprise...not.

No no......for "not" jokes, you need to pause longer! ha

More like: "Gee, what a surprise..........not."

There was a little tutorial of sorts about that in "Borat." grin



True. Although, for both you guys, I have to ask: what do you have against spaces? You shouldn't connect words by ellipses... without... spaces....

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#1607075 - 01/27/11 09:25 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Mark_C]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6149
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: stores
Gee, what a surprise...not.

No no......for "not" jokes, you need to pause longer! ha

More like: "Gee, what a surprise..........not."

There was a little tutorial of sorts about that in "Borat." grin


Or:

Gee, what a surprise.
Click to reveal..
NOT!
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1607084 - 01/27/11 09:44 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Obviously most definitely there should be a separate thread on exactly how many "dots" we need before "not," and exactly how much bigger the "not" font should be!

Not to mention if there should also be 'spaces.'

Notation, as we know, is important. ha

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Obviously most definitely there should be a separate thread on exactly how many "dots" we need before "not," and exactly how much bigger the "not" font should be!

...........NOT!!!
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1607124 - 01/27/11 11:08 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18073
Loc: Victoria, BC
Funny: I don't hear much sympathy expressed for Ozawa and what he might be going through.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1607140 - 01/27/11 11:45 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Very true.
For better or (mostly) worse (as per what you said), we're focused on Argerich's performance not happening.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1607158 - 01/28/11 12:33 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8890
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Amongst seasoned concert goers and those who have followed classical music for a long time, Ozawa's physical challenge is a cause to be very sad for.

But realistically, if Argerich had not cancelled, but had agreed to play with another conductor, how many ticket holders would have stayed away because of Ozawa's absence?
_________________________
Jason

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#1607186 - 01/28/11 02:05 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: argerichfan]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: argerichfan

But realistically, if Argerich had not cancelled, but had agreed to play with another conductor, how many ticket holders would have stayed away because of Ozawa's absence?



None. But that would have nothing to do with any disregard to his misfortune.

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#1607224 - 01/28/11 06:20 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Originally Posted By: argerichfan

But realistically, if Argerich had not cancelled, but had agreed to play with another conductor, how many ticket holders would have stayed away because of Ozawa's absence?



None. But that would have nothing to do with any disregard to his misfortune.


People aren't disregarding it - it's just that it's unavoidable that Ozawa can't be there so there's not much you can say about it. That Argerich isn't playing is totally avoidable and, lamentably, this has come to characterise the late phase of her career - that's why she attracts so much commentary. She is now seen as an unreliable prima donna by many - regardless of her undeniable talent. It's a shame. She needs to get over herself. It's not such a big deal to play with a different conductor. All she needs to do is give some detailed instructions about how she wants the piece to be conducted. No conductor would fight her on an interpretation.

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#1607234 - 01/28/11 06:51 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1250
Loc:
I agree. Ozawa looked very frail last year (saw a then recent picture). But MA should show more flex.

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#1607242 - 01/28/11 07:15 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
thank goodness for you tube.

( I do have a delightful video of Argerich playing a duet with Kissen (I think) in Germany in the 80s. It's somewhere in my house.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1607304 - 01/28/11 09:23 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
apple, she is even more awesome live. Incredible stage presence, fluid seamless technique.. she looks like she is part of the piano and in a very unassuming way.. and she gets screaming groupies and flowers like a rock star..

Ando, be nice!!! She is over herself.. We are just not over her..

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#1607306 - 01/28/11 09:27 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
I would LOVE to hear her play.. I don't know that she would make it to Kansas City.

What skill she has.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1607462 - 01/28/11 12:26 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
and she gets screaming groupies and flowers like a rock star..

That wasn't you throwing pairs of underwear to her, was it?
Quote:
Ando, be nice!!! She is over herself..

Not sure about that one.
Quote:
We are just not over her..

You may be right there.

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#1607467 - 01/28/11 12:30 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: ando]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: ando
....That Argerich isn't playing is totally avoidable....

I don't agree.

IMO all you're saying is that you don't think there could be a good reason why she might not wish to play with someone else. Maybe the reason she wanted to play this concert at all was because she wanted to play it with Ozawa. Maybe there aren't very many conductors that she feels comfortable with, or wouldn't find it interesting to work with. And maybe all kinds of other things that would be valid too.

Quote:
....It's not such a big deal to play with a different conductor.

I think you just disqualified yourself as any kind of arbiter on this. smile

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1607491 - 01/28/11 01:03 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8890
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
apple, she is even more awesome live.

I heard her in London several times. You may collectively eat your hearts out.
Quote:
Incredible stage presence, fluid seamless technique.. she looks like she is part of the piano and in a very unassuming way...

My, how that description brings back memories.
Quote:
and she gets screaming groupies and flowers like a rock star...

yeah, I screamed... and those flowers I bought were expensive.
_________________________
Jason

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#1607494 - 01/28/11 01:09 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Mark_C]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8890
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: ando
It's not such a big deal to play with a different conductor.

I think you just disqualified yourself as any kind of arbiter on this. smile


ando, I'm going to have to agree with Mark on this. That's really an oversimplification and a bit disrespectful of Argerich. How much do we know about the chemistry between her and her favoured conductors?
_________________________
Jason

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#1607496 - 01/28/11 01:10 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: ando]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: ando
That wasn't you throwing pairs of underwear to her, was it?


No I am not capable of such a class act..
Sheesh ando.. Get with the program..


Afan
Yes I am definitely jealous.. But I just might get to see her in Lugano this year (and I mean see her play and talk to her, thanks to a friend of a friend of a friend!), though info on that is still unclear.

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#1607497 - 01/28/11 01:15 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8890
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
But I just might get to see her in Lugano this year (and I mean see her play and talk to her, thanks to a friend of a friend of a friend!), though info on that is still unclear.

Talk to her? That would turn me as many shades of green as the Emerald Isle.
_________________________
Jason

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#1607498 - 01/28/11 01:16 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
or OZ
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1607834 - 01/29/11 12:40 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Mark_C]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: ando
....That Argerich isn't playing is totally avoidable....

I don't agree.

IMO all you're saying is that you don't think there could be a good reason why she might not wish to play with someone else. Maybe the reason she wanted to play this concert at all was because she wanted to play it with Ozawa. Maybe there aren't very many conductors that she feels comfortable with, or wouldn't find it interesting to work with. And maybe all kinds of other things that would be valid too.

Quote:
....It's not such a big deal to play with a different conductor.

I think you just disqualified yourself as any kind of arbiter on this. smile



It's not about preference, it's about being professional. Sometimes arrangements have to be changed at late notice. It happens fairly frequently in Australia, it doesn't mean that performers cancel their commitments. And before you accuse me of being unqualified as an arbiter on this, I'll happily wager that I have more direct experience with this than you. Let me tell you the story: When I was doing my final year recital for guitar it involved performing a concerto. I was to play Rodrigo's Concerto de Aranjuez with the university orchestra. The conductor was a visiting Italian by the name of Piero Gamba. We had done two rehearshals for this performance, then he was taken ill just before the performance. Of course, I wasn't about to cancel my performance, so we got a guest conductor in at the last minute. Of course, I had to sit down with him and go through the piece and inform him of how we had been practising the concerto, he took down notes and marked his score accordingly.

In the end, the performance went fine and without a hitch. Sure, it was a little different in places, but certainly worth doing and not that hard to adjust to. I have, to date, performed 9 guitar concertos. So before you accuse me of having no knowledge on the subject, maybe you should be sure who you are talking to. I would also ask you to describe some of your own experience with playing a concerto under different conductors.

Yes, it feels a little different, but changing conductors is no reason to cancel a performance. I know of plenty of top-flight performers in Australia who have had to adjust to a new conductor at short notice. They don't worry about it at all - they just do it. We don't have to be so precious just because we play classical music. There are all kinds of intangibles in any performance and you just have to roll with it.

Feel free to tell me further how little knowledge I have on the subject... wink

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#1607835 - 01/29/11 12:43 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Originally Posted By: ando
That wasn't you throwing pairs of underwear to her, was it?


No I am not capable of such a class act..
Sheesh ando.. Get with the program..



Is there no place for jokes on this forum? Lighten up... ha

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#1607837 - 01/29/11 12:47 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: argerichfan]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: ando
It's not such a big deal to play with a different conductor.

I think you just disqualified yourself as any kind of arbiter on this. smile


ando, I'm going to have to agree with Mark on this. That's really an oversimplification and a bit disrespectful of Argerich. How much do we know about the chemistry between her and her favoured conductors?


Well it's not that surprising that somebody called "argerichfan" would leap to her defence, is it? wink

I'm not downplaying her preference to play with certain conductors. I'm just saying she could have gone through with the performance. Chemistry is nice and all, but what about all her disappointed fans who bought tickets? And this isn't the first time she has cancelled a performance... Personally, I find that disappointing. My teachers taught me that you don't cancel a performance unless your arms are in a cast.

By the way, Mark C and others who feel like taking a swipe at me - are you aware that for many conducted performances, there are understudy conductors who are assigned to take over in the event of illness or cancelation from the conductor? That would imply that it is expected that performers can adapt quickly to a new conductor.

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#1607861 - 01/29/11 01:58 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: ando]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
What makes you think you have more experience at it than me? smile
No need to make it personal. It doesn't help your position or make you look real good to say things like that.

But anyway: I don't want someone like Argerich to be "professional," not in the way you said.

There are thousands of people who are professional. If she made herself be "professional" in the way you're saying, she wouldn't be Argerich.

One of the things that often enables people like Argerich to be what they are is that they're highly particular, in whichever kinds of ways. (In case you never noticed.) ha

I'm not saying that being "professional" requires that you be so particular -- but she is. That's a big part of what makes her Argerich. She has extreme intensity, individuality, and yes, 'particularity.' And I think I can assure you that her concern goes beyond having the concert "go fine and without a hitch." When you say something like that, regardless of how much experience you may have and regardless of how excellent you may be, you make it sound like you just don't appreciate some of the considerations, as was the case with that earlier post.

I didn't 'take a swipe' at you; it was about what you said. It's fine to have a strong preference for performers to be more flexible about such things, but I think it misses something to say that it's necessarily "not such a big deal" to play with a different conductor.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1607883 - 01/29/11 03:18 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Mark_C]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
What makes you think you have more experience at it than me? smile
No need to make it personal. It doesn't help your position or make you look real good to say things like that.


My purpose wasn't to bignote mself, it was that your comment implied that I didn't know what it meant to change conductors. I have directly experienced it. It wasn't so bad. Your comment actually made me suspect that you haven't been through the same experience - more that you are accepting Argerich's rationale without having tested it yourself (of course, this is speculation at this point since we don't know what she has said about it, this is just in theory). If you have experienced it, I stand corrected.

Quote:

But anyway: I don't want someone like Argerich to be "professional," not in the way you said.

There are thousands of people who are professional. If she made herself be "professional" in the way you're saying, she wouldn't be Argerich.

I find that surprising. If I had bought tickets I certainly would want her to be professional enough to show up.

Quote:
One of the things that often enables people like Argerich to be what they are is that they're highly particular, in whichever kinds of ways. (In case you never noticed.) ha


You are quite right there. Most great performers are particular/peculiar, but for me I draw the line at accepting them not performing what they are scheduled for. I can't really accept that as a peculiarity. I don't believe other odd performers like Kissin would do that. If you can accept it, that's fine.

Quote:

I'm not saying that being "professional" requires that you be so particular -- but she is. That's a big part of what makes her Argerich. She has extreme intensity, individuality, and yes, 'particularity.' And I think I can assure you that her concern goes beyond having the concert "go fine and without a hitch." When you say something like that, regardless of how much experience you may have and regardless of how excellent you may be, you make it sound like you just don't appreciate some of the considerations, as was the case with that earlier post.


I'm not saying it's ideal, but if you bought tickets for her performance and she canceled, would you be celebrating her individuality or would you rather see her play, even if it wasn't under her ideal circumstances? I certainly can appreciate what great conductors bring to the table. Indeed, even the rehearsals I had with Maestro Gamba were an inspiration. What I am talking about is making the best of a situation. I don't see why you would equate that with being undiscerning.

Quote:
I didn't 'take a swipe' at you; it was about what you said. It's fine to have a strong preference for performers to be more flexible about such things, but I think it misses something to say that it's necessarily "not such a big deal" to play with a different conductor.


Ok then, it's a big deal. Do you still think a performer should cancel for this reason? Is there a point where you just have to soldier on? Do you think performers who do accept a change of conductor are somehow less discerning? I don't think they are, I just think they are fulfilling their responsibility to perform. When I had a change of conductor, I went from a internationally renowned and great man, to a virtually unknown local. It was a little disappointing for me, but I was able to adjust and I'm glad I did. No, I'm not Argerich, not even close, but does my willingness to accept a change of circumstance say something negative and undiscerning about me? Also, what about the other top-flight artists who have accepted a late change of conductor without complaint? I think it actually speaks highly of them and their adaptability.

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#1607888 - 01/29/11 04:05 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: ando]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
The answers to all the questions you just asked are implicit in the post that you were replying to.

Let me add, though, that I could have made my points in a nicer way -- and I'm sorry I didn't. All I mean to say is that there could be aspects here that you weren't taking into account. I just got carried away because I was feeling defensive on Argerich's behalf -- partly because of my regard for her, and partly because I myself can identify very much with this kind of "particularity."
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1607908 - 01/29/11 05:55 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
BD76 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 185
Loc: California
Gosh I hope she doesn't cancel her March performance at Walt Disney Concert Hall. I've already bought tickets! Hopefully Dudamel won't have any herniated disks....
_________________________
~The piano is an orchestra with 88... things, you know! ~V. Horowitz

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#1607924 - 01/29/11 07:11 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
andrew f Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 120
Loc: Amsterdam
I walked out of an Argerich recital once. I delayed buying the ticket until one hour before showtime, specifically asking if she was in the building and going to perform. The first person to come onstage was a man with a microphone who made the dreaded announcement that they'd fortunately been able to find a "replacement" for the indisposed Ms. Argerich. They even gave me a hard time when I asked for the ticket to be reimbursed.
I guess the show must go on, but what the heck!

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#1607926 - 01/29/11 07:13 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: BD76]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: BD76
Gosh I hope she doesn't cancel her March performance at Walt Disney Concert Hall. I've already bought tickets! Hopefully Dudamel won't have any herniated disks....


Keep your fingers crossed and don't hold your breath...she's notorious for canceling (let the wind be blowing the wrong direction...insert rolled eyes here).
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1607941 - 01/29/11 07:37 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Mark_C]
ando Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3588
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
The answers to all the questions you just asked are implicit in the post that you were replying to.

Let me add, though, that I could have made my points in a nicer way -- and I'm sorry I didn't. All I mean to say is that there could be aspects here that you weren't taking into account. I just got carried away because I was feeling defensive on Argerich's behalf -- partly because of my regard for her, and partly because I myself can identify very much with this kind of "particularity."


Ok, no problem, I can accept that you see Ms Argerich differently than I do. We can agree to disagree. For the record, I think she's a marvellous talent when she does show up. smile

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#1607959 - 01/29/11 08:30 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
A few points are worth emphasizing:
1- It was Ozawa who cancelled all his appearances in the US and Europe; Argerich was only in a couple of them.
2- In 2010, she cancelled rarely, once for family reasons (replaced by Ivo Pogorelich). On other occasions her concerts were cancelled becasue her performing partner was ill (Nelson Freire) or involved in a court case (Pletnev).
3- She has melanoma, now metastatic, that required significant treatment. (She also gave a benefit concert at Carnegie Hall in gratitude for her so far successful treatment).
4- She is 70 years old this year
5- She is a marvellous artist who has been incredibly generous to her colleagues and who has done more than any musician I know of, to support and launch careers of talented and unknown musicians.
6- She is a living legend
7- Yes she can be elusive and particular. Nobody is clear as to her reasons for cancellations other than some of the obvious ones. She has described at times what sounds like stage fright especially when performing alone, despite her remarkable facility.

Regardless, she should not be dismissed as a start-up whose teacher forgot to tell her about commitment and who might need lessons in professionalism. Thus, my and others' peeves with ando's humble comments..


BD76: Chances are excellent that she will make the LA concerts (her only ones remaining in the US for 2011). She looked well during the Chopin competition (where she was a juror and performed with Maria Joao Pires as well as playing Chopin's first concerto in honor of her teacher Gulda) and she has appeared in multiple concerts since then without any cancellations.
You are likely in for a treat..


Edited by Andromaque (01/29/11 08:32 AM)

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#1608004 - 01/29/11 09:50 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19366
Loc: New York City
I've never had to experience an Argerich cancellation for the three or four times I've seen her.

I do think to some extent there is what I'd call a "John McEnroe" approach if any musician has numerous cancellations where the reason seems less than compelling. I'm not talking about exhibiting a nasty personality, but that McEnroe knew he could get away with court antics because he was one of the best players/biggest draws in tennis at the time. Similarly, I wonder if Argerich, or any musician, would cancel as much as some claim she does if she wasn't a living legend.

I'd be interested, if anyone really knows, in how many performances she has cancelled(not where the conductor cancelled and she followed suit)in the last five years or ten year where the reason was less than compelling. My impression is that is hasn't been that many, but I don't have the figures.


Edited by pianoloverus (01/29/11 09:57 AM)

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#1608187 - 01/29/11 02:32 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
....I do think to some extent there is what I'd call a "John McEnroe" approach if any musician has numerous cancellations where the reason seems less than compelling. I'm not talking about exhibiting a nasty personality, but that McEnroe knew he could get away with court antics because he was one of the best players/biggest draws in tennis at the time. Similarly, I wonder if Argerich, or any musician, would cancel as much as some claim she does if she wasn't a living legend....

Absolutely -- and I think that's a good comparison. I think it's safe to say you can't get away with it without being extraordinary, and if you know you can, maybe you do it. I do think there's a difference between the two, in the sense that I can well imagine Argerich's stuff being inseparably connected to her greatness in her field but I can't similarly for McEnroe, maybe just because I don't know tennis as well.

My main wonderment -- and criticism -- about this whole thing is, why concerts like this get announced and ticketed so far in advance. There are various reasons I can think of, and none of them seem to work. We could say that it's to ensure a good sale -- but we know it's not necessary for that; if they announced the concert (let's say) just a month in advance, it would still sell out immediately. We could say it's to allow the performers to plan and rehearse for it, but.....they could do that anyway -- they could plan on it themselves, including with the orchestra, having Carnegie hold the date, with everyone knowing that if it turns out they're really going to go ahead with it, then it can be officially announced and ticketed, with the certainty that it would still sell out (immediately).

I know that it's fairly routine to schedule such concerts so far in advance, that it would be unusual to start doing it as I said, and that even if it looked all-systems-go a month in advance there could still turn out to be a cancellation. But with a performer as 'particular' (or whatever) as Argerich, with their advanced age, and with their health issues, I really wondered why it had been publicly announced and ticketed so far in advance. It seems simply to worsen the odds, needlessly.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1608216 - 01/29/11 03:11 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Mark_C]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
....I do think to some extent there is what I'd call a "John McEnroe" approach if any musician has numerous cancellations where the reason seems less than compelling. I'm not talking about exhibiting a nasty personality, but that McEnroe knew he could get away with court antics because he was one of the best players/biggest draws in tennis at the time. Similarly, I wonder if Argerich, or any musician, would cancel as much as some claim she does if she wasn't a living legend....

Absolutely -- and I think that's a good comparison. I think it's safe to say you can't get away with it without being extraordinary, and if you know you can, maybe you do it. I do think there's a difference between the two, in the sense that I can well imagine Argerich's stuff being inseparably connected to her greatness in her field but I can't similarly for McEnroe, maybe just because I don't know tennis as well.

My main wonderment -- and criticism -- about this whole thing is, why concerts like this get announced and ticketed so far in advance. There are various reasons I can think of, and none of them seem to work. We could say that it's to ensure a good sale -- but we know it's not necessary for that; if they announced the concert (let's say) just a month in advance, it would still sell out immediately. We could say it's to allow the performers to plan and rehearse for it, but.....they could do that anyway -- they could plan on it themselves, including with the orchestra, having Carnegie hold the date, with everyone knowing that if it turns out they're really going to go ahead with it, then it can be officially announced and ticketed, with the certainty that it would still sell out (immediately).

I know that it's fairly routine to schedule such concerts so far in advance, that it would be unusual to start doing it as I said, and that even if it looked all-systems-go a month in advance there could still turn out to be a cancellation. But with a performer as 'particular' (or whatever) as Argerich, with their advanced age, and with their health issues, I really wondered why it had been publicly announced and ticketed so far in advance. It seems simply to worsen the odds, needlessly.


You CANNOT be SERIOUS!!!

wink

I often wonder why artists cancel frequently, too.

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#1608223 - 01/29/11 03:16 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Orange Soda King]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I often wonder why artists cancel frequently, too.

How about if you don't feel you can give it your best?

For most of us, that's not a good reason. For someone like Argerich -- with an all-time world-class standard that she presumably wants to meet -- arguably it is.

I had tickets for this concert. And I'm glad the concert isn't going forward if, for whatever reason, she felt it wasn't going to represent her as she wished, or, as I said before, if she just isn't into doing the piece with someone else -- which amounts to the same thing, because if she's not into it, it's not going to be Argerich.

With people like that, it isn't just a thing of "go ahead and play the program," nor should it be. Maybe some people feel they're paying just to "see" these performers and to hear the pieces get played. I don't, and I feel pretty sure the performers don't.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1608233 - 01/29/11 03:31 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Orange Soda King]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19366
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King


You CANNOT be SERIOUS!!!
Click to reveal..
I was not a very skilled driver of the tennis team at Trinity School. McEnroe once suggested that I used the gas pedal like it wss the piano pedal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j0eqZKTjpk&feature=related

But at least he mellowed out later in life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkq6ZsYqd5o&feature=related

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#1608236 - 01/29/11 03:42 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: pianoloverus]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6149
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King


You CANNOT be SERIOUS!!!
Click to reveal..
I was not a very skilled driver of the tennis team at Trinity School. McEnroe once suggested that I used the gas pedal like it wss the piano pedal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j0eqZKTjpk&feature=related

But at least he mellowed out later in life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkq6ZsYqd5o&feature=related


Haha, the Lang Lang of tennis.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1608246 - 01/29/11 04:14 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Orange Soda King]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
For the benefit of anyone not intimately familiar with tennis history..... smile

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1608250 - 01/29/11 04:23 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19786
Loc: New York
Speaking of her being particular, there was this other discussion we had, about the page turner. Unfortunately it looks like the video has since been made 'private.'

I was with Martha on that too, although it's impossible not to feel bad for the page turner.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1608261 - 01/29/11 04:34 PM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Damon]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King


You CANNOT be SERIOUS!!!
Click to reveal..
I was not a very skilled driver of the tennis team at Trinity School. McEnroe once suggested that I used the gas pedal like it wss the piano pedal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQ_Ja02gTY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j0eqZKTjpk&feature=related

But at least he mellowed out later in life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkq6ZsYqd5o&feature=related


Haha, the Lang Lang of tennis.


Yep. I always thought he was an a$$ too.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1608646 - 01/30/11 07:36 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
and in Kansas City news.. affecting me because I had tickets and was REALLY looking forward to this concert....

"Concert Cancellation
Radu Lupu, piano
Saturday, January 29 | Folly Theater| 8:00 pm

frown

I was looking forward to hearing him play Schumann.. I can exchange my ticket to hear Garrick Ohlsson (in March)

smile
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1608647 - 01/30/11 07:41 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Oh No!! Did they say why? I got to see him last year here and enjoyed it tremendously!
Is there a replacement? what was he supposed to play?

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#1608649 - 01/30/11 07:52 AM Re: Argerich's concert is cancelled... not her fault! [Re: Andromaque]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
He was supposed to play Schumann. I really love Schumann. really love his music.

Bunte Blaetter opus 99 - I purposefully did not listen ahead of time. I've never heard it and was looking forward to a musical surprise. I usually study the music before I hear it.

Papillons.. I am pretty familiar with this music and play around with it often..

Schubert sonata in B flat. A piece I purposefully also have avoided.

I love the way Radu plays. I have been watching him on you tube, he is so strong, so focused and brilliantly articulate. Lupu reminds me of a strong loving uncle.

blah blah blah. I will never be a music critic.

He had a sudden family emergency. they sent notice on Friday... so no replacement. I should have given them my number. I was downtown anyway. (heh)

the tickets for Ohlsson will probably be snatched up,.. there are a couple other pianists coming tho.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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