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A friend is considering this piano. It was built in 1918 and has the original soundboard. He had it restored to the original Bluthner action. It also doesn't have the Aliquot stringing, where a fourth, non-struck, string was added in the upper register to enhance overtones.

This is about 90 miles out of LA so is it worth the trip? The price seems excellent. I don't know too much about Bluthners.

Thanks in advance.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/msg/2193587532.html

It seems to be an outstanding deal if it checks out.

I would definitely drive to Riverside for this kind of deal. I played a Blüthner from 1915 at the Blüthner showroom in Leipzig some years ago, and it was divine. Here is a link that can give you a little more information about the brand:

http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/bluthner.htm

I don't think it's a good idea. Replacing a pinblock on these old Bluethners is very difficult, so it was probably just re-pinned with oversized pins instead of replaced...

Considering that the original pins would have been very small (6.75 mm), there is not necessarily anything wrong with restringing with one size larger pins, IF the pinblock is OK. With the piano in CA there is a good chance of an intact pinblock.

The action (hammers etc) looks all original (old) and has not been rebuilt from what I can see. It is worth looking at if not too far away.

My Bluthner, which is 37 years older than this, retains its original pinblock. It was repinned with pins a size larger. My tuner tells me that it is exemplary for ease and stability of tuning.

I'd drive a thousand miles to look at a piano of that class on offer at such a low price. It is a Bluthner of the "Golden Age" of Bluthner pianos which is the period between the wars.
I believe that an original soundboard in good condition is generally preferable to a piano with a soundboard replacement.
A good Bluthner of that period could have a heavenly sound. However, I would have an independent check on the piano.
Good luck!
Robert.

Well my friend and I made the drive to check this out.

The overall tone was beautiful ! The action was pretty uneven in places. The shallow key dip was noticeable right away and something that bothered me a quite a bit.

I'm wondering how much smoother a good tech could make the action feel. I'm guessing with this older patented action there will only be so much he can do.

The action is not as critical for my friend since he's getting this more for enjoyment and family then has a serious practice instrument. He's a Guitarist and a studio/pro tools wizard that writes for TV and other outlets. He's on the computer composing/mixing/editing with "Ivory" and other mega samples sometimes 12 hours a day. He's looking for something non-electronic, high tech sounding where can relax his ears and just unwind from the world of 96K 24 bit, something for the soul.

All things considered I think it would be hard to find a piano, especially a 6' 3" that will have the "sound" of this at 8K.

Hi Dave,
Good on you for for making the drive to see this piano and it seems that it could be just right for your friend.
My teacher had a slightly smaller Bluthner of that period and I remember that the action took some getting used to. I am sure a good technician would be able to effect some improvement in smoothing out any uneveness in the touch.
The warm,honeyed sound from a Bluthner of that vintage is indeed nectar for the soul.
It must be an extraordinary piano.

Kind regards,

Robert.

The Patent Action has a different sensation than the modern action. There is less mass, and there is no after-touch. These characteristics are probably what you found bothersome.




My mentor restored one of these a few years ago (before my time) and sold it locally, so I've had a chance to play it... I did just yesterday, actually. All I can say is that it runs circles around almost every other piano I've played, and I've played almost everything.

You'd want to have someone do a friction treatment on the action, and then have it regulated. Assuming the hammers are appropriate for the piano, this should be enough to make it play very well. You would need to find a tech who is familiar with the Patent Action.



There is no doubt that these are charming pianos. However, sometimes a bargain isn't actually a bargain. If whoever rebuilt this piano misjudged the condition of the pinblock, or just repinned it because they don't know how to replace it (it's a more complicated job on one of these), then the piano could have poor tuning stability. Same thing with the soundboard and action. Also, when was this work done? If it's been a while, then this piano is probably overpriced.

With so many people trying to sell their pianos, I can't imagine it'd be difficult to find a better deal. Good luck.

My friend bought the 1918 6'3" Bluthner, after paying $200 to have it checked out by a tech out in that area that was recommended by Kasimoff Piano, the LA Bluthner dealer.

The report came back not too glowing. It was recommended he replace the hammers, bush the keys, replace backchecks and regulation at a cost of 5-6K.

After talking with my tech, we both agreed since the tone is already excellent and my friend isn't a practicing pianist putting in 3-4 hours a day, he could probably forgo the hammers for awhile.

He's prepared to sink another $1000 into the regulation and action.
The seller was asking $7900 and my friend was able to get it at 7K. My friend Pierre Julia, at the Fazioli store, gave me the number of his movers, who gave my friend an excellent price of $200 to move the piano from out in Banning to his home in Los Feliz, about 90 miles away.

He kept playing the audio clips he recorded of me playing the Bluthner over and over. He really felt the Bluthner sounded special and was the one, so I'm very excited for him. I almost feel like it's part my piano in a way, I got into it as much as my friend.

Will report back when he takes delivery, gets it in his living room, checks out the sound and gets an updated report from either my tech or another guy here in town.

If the tone is excellent, why was it recommended that the hammers be replace?

To quote the tech's report--" Hammers very worn, should be replaced".

I hope it works out for your friend. However, I do think that price is insanely high in light of the tech report. These old Bluethners show up on the Internet on a regular basis for not much money. Sure, this piano has had work done to it, but based on the report, it was either done a long time ago, or not much thought went into the reconditioning... I probably would have offered 3500 firm.

He would not be the owner now if he had offered that price. The seller forwarded my friend two legit email offers at 7k. He held it for my friend because-- he was the first to look at it, dug the fact that we were both musicians, liked the Ravel and Bill Evans stuff I was playing and the fact my friend went through the hassle of paying a tech to go out there.

Sure they might show up on the internet in Ohio, New Jersey or Florida. But to actually play the piano in person, within a 90 minute drive in town, with a good pianist is everything.

The only Bluthner I have seen on the internet cheaper than 18k is the Pro Audio Vault Bluthner Digital Model One - Piano samples. They cost about $295.00.

There is one on eBay that is currently at $3,200.00. I talked to the seller (who was a very nice guy) and he said he wouldn't sell the piano to a musician. He felt it was a beautiful piece of furniture or possible some rebuilder might buy it and put in 15k or so to restore it. Of course now that piano is 18k plus....

I would be very interested in seeing all the old or current links for the Bluthners you've seen that are well below 7k.

To clarify, I'm not talking about one that's necessarily playable. Here's one that is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120682931788#ht_1494wt_1139

With some work, especially voicing, this would likely be a nice instrument for someone.

While not for everyone, some people (even professional pianists) do actually conduct nationwide and even international searches, and end up buying a piano sight unseen. For old pianos like these, I don't agree that having a good pianist try it out is "everything" because piano technicians are usually better equipped to determine the condition of an instrument, and I mean no disrespect in saying that... it really is a unique perspective that I am just now beginning to appreciate as a pianist and apprentice technician.

I'm apprehensive because the add description is starkly different from what your technician apparently assessed: needing replacement hammers, key bushings, back checks, and regulation is not indicative of a proper rebuild. It sounds like sloppy work and/ or cutting corners, and really makes me wonder about the quality of its soundboard refurbishing and re-stringing job. Poor workmanship doesn't justify a higher price. And, while you can't expect to get a $40,000 rebuild job for $7,000 you can definitely get a newer used piano with less questions, and possibly fewer headaches.

Of course, please realize that this is my perspective and opinion, not indisputable fact.

Bluthner's soundboard is one of its many unique qualities in that the crown is cylindrical rather then spherical. That particular Bluthner doesn't even have a crown.

With the other issues described in the ad and with the auction price at 4.5k currently (not completed) do you feel this would be a much better deal for a piano that someone couldn't hear or see prior to purchase, than one actually played and heard at a set price?

This Bluethner doesn't have crown, either... because it has a carbon-fiber soundboard. It also has a WNG composite action. And, I'm sure it's one of the best sounding Bluethners in the world.

http://hurstwoodfarmpianos.co.uk/pianosinstock.php?categories_id=3



It would depend on what the buyer intends to do with the piano. However, all you asked me to do was to find a (presumably playable) Bluethner for under $7,000. I did. In about five minutes.