Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum To Splice or Not to Splice?

Del and Jerry,

the more I hear people oppose any use of splicing, particularly in a situation like you just described Del, the more I am reminded of the days before soundboard replacement was fairly commonplace. Those who could NOT replace a board, never found one that was bad enough to need replacing. In this case, I wonder if those who object to splicing object because they have never developed a consistent skill in doing so.

The resistance I find a bit curious, as it is such a reasonable and long lasting repair, especially for abused and older pianos.

Dale, are you implying that a desire to do the best possible repair is somehow indicitative of a lack of skill? Really?

Performing a nice splice is more difficult and requires more skill than replacing a string IMHO.
"Best possible repair"? Then you could argue that you should always replace hammers instead of reshape them. You should always recap or replace a bridge instead of using epoxy.

There are appropriate places for repairs. Sometimes total replacement is not the most appropriate for a given situation.

Good points sure enough, Ryan. I still prefer strings in a single piece.

I was just surprised that anyone would have a problem with someone being opposed to something in principal, to the point of suggesting being incapable of it.

Just a thought to toss into the conversation: if universals are only good for a very temporary repair as to prevent hammer wear, why not just install an unwound string for the hammer to hit in the case of a bichord? It would probably be so quiet that the tone would not be affected and would be more economical, too.

Oh c’mon here you can measure and order and have the new string inside of 7 days if you need to. There is no need to install a replacement; the instrument will not be played enough to make any difference at all to the hammer or flange……let’s stop all of the dancing around and obfuscation.

I quite agree; I prefer string in a single piece as well. In fact, I prefer strings that don’t break. I also prefer bright shiny new strings to old dull string. I also prefer nice new hammers to old hammers that have been sanded a couple of time. And capstan block felts with no discernable indents. And a lot of other things that I can’t always have in an older piano.

Taking the Yamaha GP I wrote about earlier as an example, new wrapped strings of the right size and dimension—even had they come from Yamaha—would, in my opinion, still have been an inappropriate repair. Why, you might rightfully ask? To which I would answer; this piano, while not old as measured in piano-years, is old enough that the wrapped strings no longer have that “new” sound. They are far from dead but they do have a few miles on them. In each of the two unisons just one (of two) strings broke. The break, apparently, was at the tuning pin. A professional tie would have restored the function of the broken string leaving the sound of the original string intact. A well-tied knot would have been reasonably stable by the time the tuner left the premises; certainly so with just one follow up. Aside from aesthetics the original string is now back doing its job and the piano players cannot tell that any repair has been made. Replacing the broken string with a duplicate of the original—or both of them, for that—simply doesn’t give the same sound as either the original or the adjacent strings on either side. So now, even after the new strings finally do stabilize there remains a tone difference.

In the not too distant future this piano is going to need restringing. More strings are going to break and it will become cost effective to simply start over. If I do the restringing I’ll give the piano a bass scale that will be a bit more robust than the original so string breakage should be less of a problem. But, in the meantime, it seems to me that the best, most professional repair is the one that achieves the least bad acoustical results consistent with reasonable life expectancy. A nicely tied string is acoustically the same—it should be, it is, after all, the original string producing the sound. As for longevity, well, the experience of technicians through the ages has provided the evidence that a nicely tied string should last as long as its neighbors.

ddf

Dale said...."The resistance I find a bit curious, as it is such a reasonable and long lasting repair, especially for abused and older pianos".

Splicing is fine for older pianos. I just won't do it for a concert instrument or a new/newer expensive grand/vertical in a home situation. I'm just ocd about keeping things in factory new condition, and the pianos don't come out of the factory with splices.

Obfuscation? By stating that universal strings are good for nothing except a temporary repair? I can have a string inside of 7 days, but I usually can't reschedule a return trip for 4-6 weeks. Don't want it without a string that long.

I had to do that for a concert grand I tune. Splicing did not work when a unison broke, and universal strings are too short. So I put plain wire in it as a stopgap. I tuned it to something that sounded like it was at pitch, then listened to it a little more and dropped it an octave so it was at pitch. It was a learning experience.

In my experience even new bass replacement strings sound different enough (as Dell alluded to) that the universals, if carefully sized and installed, aren't that much different from the supply house, or even the manufacturers replacements.

I try a splice first. If that keeps breaking (after my shattered nerves calm down) I give the customer a choice of a universal or a new replacement. In most cases where a new replacement was chosen they aren't that much better than the universals. It's a new wire paired with an old one, and it sounds like it.

That unfortunate difference in sound was the driving force that encouraged me learn to splice.

Universal strings are not made to match the tonal qualities of any bass wires. They are just that "universal." A temporary fix. But, like I said, why waste all of that time in the first place? It really isn't necessary but, hey, if that's what someone prefers? Then, so be it.

Personally, I think they sound crummy. A nicely tied knot would sound much better and then, if a new string is still preferred fine. At least in the meantime, the existing wire will sound good.

Also, as mentioned by BDB, they are often not the correct length either in which case they won't even fit. On top of that, in many instances, an awful lot of copper wire needs to be removed in order to get the wire to match the neighboring wire and by that time, more tone of the universal has been lost. Not to mention that as you remove the wire, on the smaller diameter wires, even the bigger ones too, the copper breaks off easily so, more time is pissed away fooling around with it trying to get it "just so." By the time we unwrap the universal, I could have tied 3 knots. I've found too that after all of that trouble, many of the universals wind up buzzing. Splice here we come!

I'm booked weeks ahead too but, in situations where a new wire needs replacing, I order it and go back at night if I need to for a concert setting or what have you.

Basically, I don't have a problem with anyone that prefers replacing wires in any situation. That's great but, by the same token, I also don't have a problem with someone that prefers splicing them instead either.



Better to order two new wires for a better match then. If you use a good company for string replacements, they should sound much better than a universal wire unless incorrect measurements were taken or the string maker screwed up. But, I agree with the splicing attempts first. But, that's just me.

Yep, universal's are good for nothing me thinks.

Just to add my 2 cents...

I've had both good and bad experiences with universal strings... both installing them and finding them already installed. There are plenty of cheap consoles and spinets out there where the original bass strings match each other poorly and where there are awful false beating problems.

Last point first. Certainly there are those that I've run into that will not do certain repairs because they are not comfortable with doing the repair. I guess that would indicate a lack of skill/knowledge in most cases, depending somewhat on the tech's reasoning, though that is not my point here. In your case it seems to be the principle of the thing, not the skill set issue.



Main point: Being opposed to something in principle is fine if the principle is founded on good rationale. In this case, I stated that splicing was a good choice for SOME pianos. More to the point, I believe it to be a better repair in some cases than installing a new string which will not tonally match up to the older wires. Installing a temporary universal wire that will almost certainly sound worse than the existing wire, go out of tune immediately, require a followup to replace it with a new and substantially more expensive new wire which will also require several followup tweakings, not being able to get back to the piano for several weeks to perform the task and not giving the customer the option of a less expensive, good repair, with a better tonal match that may well be better for the instrument (Again, an older or not so good condition piano) is in opposition to good "principle". At least it is in my mind.

There are several really respected techs saying the same thing on this thread. A whole lot of collective experience.

While I appreciate people who stand on principle and include myself as one, at least in my view of myself, the more important principle to me is what is best for the client. I just don't agree on this point, though I think you make your point well.

You sound like a really conscientious tech who is trying to do the best for your clients. My point is that we should consider adding the splice (or any other repairs that are "Good" repairs) to our arsenal of repairs, when it better meets our clients needs. Splicing should not be disregarded as a somehow "substandard" repair.

BTW, I prefer one piece strings, too! So long as they don't become a voicing issue.

Best regards,

Fair enough, and well put, Dale. I'll concede that I really can't disagree with anything you said in your last post.

I'll add my 2 cents: I rarely break a string but when I do, I almost always splice it and leave it as a permanent repair except in the case of a very new or restored/rebuilt/restrung piano under warranty. Other exceptions include those Yamaha P-22's where the highest two single wound strings break. I don't give blood anymore for those.

A recent Steinway Model A had a tenor wound string break while the owner was playing it at the agraffe. I told him that it was still possible to splice that string and have it sound fine but in this case, considering the value of the piano and the fine, delicately wound string that was in question, it was a better idea to put in a new string and deal with the instability.

A couple of summers ago, an ancient Steinway D at the Frank Lloyd Wright estate popped one of the lowest Bass strings. That was again an instance where I was not about to give blood for an entity that is very slow to pay its bills, a rusty string of the heaviest gauge wire and only about an inch of string between the tuning pin and the agraffe. I opted for "putting in a new spark plug" as one of my colleagues would call it. that's what it looked like too: a shiny new tuning pin and bright copper string amongst other material that is over 100 years old. It is now the best sounding note on the whole piano!

By the way, that piano is going to undergo a complete restoration. It may even be happening right now. I know they were planning on it and had a fund raiser for it but I was not informed if it had happened yet or not. Del Fandrich was there to see it a few years ago and was interested and he was on their list of restorers to consider.

I have had a set of universal strings for years and never used a single one of them until last week when I worked on an old upright that had a string missing. It worked just fine in that application but otherwise, I would never use one of them. That is what they are for, an odd replacement on a lower quality/value piano when there is a missing string and getting the specs for and ordering a new string is more trouble than it is worth. They cannot be used when a double wound string is missing, however.

I have a few questions regarding splicing.

One string of a bichord unison close to the top end of the bass bridge in my Ibach broke directly at the coil. My Ibach has hex-core bass strings, original from all appearances, and they tend to become wedged inbetween the V-bar and the termination pins. (I posted about this recently.)

1) I've tried the knot that Ron shows in his video (the same one shown in Arthur Reblitz's book - he calls it the "piano tuner's knot") on a test-piece of copper wire, and subsequently put it under increasing tension, up to the point of failure. Four times out of four, the knot broke at the point where one of the wires enters the knot, i.e. the sling of the one wire actually pinches the other wire right off. Is there any way to prevent this? Or is it quite normal that the knot is the "weakest link" of the spliced wire?
2) I also tested the square knot that Jeff showed here, and two times out of four, the knot held while the straight wire failed.
3) Which of these knots would be more suitable for hex-core wire?
4) Bill Bremmer wrote in another thread that he normally uses the old coil, but reversing it, i.e. nipping the becket off and using that end for the knot, while using the broken point for a new becket. Would you do the same, or use a new leader wire?
5) If I use a new leader, can one combine round and hex wire in one knot?
6) How is hex-core wire measured and numbered? This string measures about 0.037" from face to face and about 0.064 from corner to corner. I need this information in order to source wire of the correct gauge.
7) Jeff, in the square knot, should the long ends of the wires come out of the knot on the same side, or diagonally opposite each other? E.g. in the diagram you've shown, should both long ends exit the knot at the top, or one at the top and one at the bottom? The diagram seems to indicate that both exit the knot on the same side (in this case, the bottom).

8. Replace the string and issues 1-7 disappear.

Somehow I knew that would be coming...

Still, the challenge then becomes how to find a hex-core replacement string, here in South Africa, to match the original hex-core bichord.

And if I can only get round-core replacement, issue no. 6 doesn't really disappear, unless I replace both strings of the bichord. Is this what you're suggesting, Loren?

Actually, I was being facetious; and I apologize for interjecting that into your thread! You're asking good questions.

But since you asked, yes, I would replace both strings if necessary. I hate splicing. I can't stand finding a piano that's full of knots.