Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum To Splice or Not to Splice?

If you have doubts about measuring the string properly, send the old string to the string maker. If you want to replace both strings, which is a good idea, measure the distance from the loop to the winding of the other string, which is the only measurement that differs.

Measuring is no problem - it's just that I'm not sure whether the gauge of hex cores is specified face-to-face or corner-to-corner, and how this relates to round-core gauge numbers, i.e. which corresponding gauge of round wire to get for a new leader (should I decide to splice).

The difference between flat-to-flat and face-to-face is 15%. I'd measure flat-to-flat (because it is easier to do) multiply by 1.1 (to get the an approximate average) and go up to the next size of round wire.

First of all, the gauge does not matter that much if you splice. If I do not have the right size at hand, I use something close. But I would not splice in this case. The hex wire will dent the leader, so it will be weaker than a splice of round wire.

Thanks to you both.

Yes, Jeff, 15% is about right. I realized my error in my previous numbers. I only measured flat-to-flat, and did a (faulty) calculation of corner-to-corner. I tried to re-measure both tonight, and came to about 0.035 flat-to-flat, and about 0.040 corner-to-corner, although the latter measurement is difficult.

BDB: point taken, and duly noted. I'll try nevertheless, because it's my personal instrument, with little to lose.

Here are two shots taken with my cellphone camera of a string splice I made in an Estonia grand today. The repair was made as I have previously described: I removed the remnant, broke of the beckett, straightened the remnant, backed out the pin 1 1/2 turns, made a tiny hook to hold the beckett and left 1/2 coils on the pin. The knot is nearly as small as it could be. The pitch is perfectly stable.

[img:left]http://www.box.net/shared/ymgmjuadmp[/img]

[img:left]http://www.box.net/shared/obucnqja3u[/img]

I guess I still haven't figured out how to post a picture on here, lol but you can all click on the links and see it. The knot is very small and would not attract your attention. The main thing about it is that it took about 5 minutes and will not require any return service call and can be considered a permanent repair.

Bill,

The only way I know how to upload a file by first, saving the picture to say, your desk top.

2nd, go here http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/fileuploader2.html Enter your name and email address. Then, open up the browse menu and locate your picture. Double click on the picture which will automatically place it into where it says "Your file." Next, simply click submit form. ONLY CLICK ONCE on submit or you will submit it several times.

Wait until the file is sent to your email address. Open it up, click on the link, copy the link paste it here like this... And, this is exactly what it will look like until you change it....
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/marrypic.gif

Next, I "Switch to Full Reply Screen."

I highlight the text above http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/marrypic.gif and then click on the '' quotations mark above.

Then, I go into where it says [quote] on both the front and back side of the highlighted text and change the words quote to [img] on both the front and back of it.

Once the img is placed in there it now looks like a picture. Make sure you stay within the [ ] fields when doing this. Now, there is probably a much easier way to do it but, that is how I've been posting my pictures for a long time now and it works for me.

Lordy, uploading images must have been explained more times than "How often should I get my piano tuned???".

Archives anyone?????

Awwww, and here I am being a nice guy...

Yeah, the archives-point well taken. And, I still haven't taken the time to upload anything. Its just wayyyyy too involved. I can send pics all day to Facebook (I don't, but I can!) very easily. I shoot the pic, and it gives me an option to "send to Facebook". That's it!

Maybe the admin. doesn't want us filling this thing up with photos, ad nauseum.

Still, I'd really like to see pics and vids...it would be worth an upgrade to SIMPLE here!

RPD

So, quicker and less hassle for the tech. Is it best for the customer, though? I guess I look at it from the point of view of my being the customer. Would I want my string spliced or replaced? I'll never know the answer to that, since I can't look at it from a non-tech point of view. I do know though, that when I bring my car in for repair, I want it done right and in a way that's best for me and the car, not what's convenient or expedient for the mechanic. If a part is broken, I want it replaced, not taped back together.

My gripe is when I have a new customer and they have no idea they have spliced strings because the tech before me didn't bother to tell them a string broke, but just tied it and left. I know that would sure bother me. I suppose if you feel splicing is a good thing to do, and your customer AGREED, then that's an entirely different matter. Personally, I don't offer the option. A string broke, it needs to be replaced, it costs x amount. Ack, a nice piano with knotted strings.... and permanent? Sorry, no. Not unless you really don't care how things look! If a string breaks in the factory during stringing, would it be acceptable to splice it and deliver it to the dealer? No? Why?

Some years ago the remote of my car stopped working. The dealer quoted something like $250 for a replacement. I found a guy with a soldering iron that fixed it for me for a cup of coffee. It's still working.

Analogies are double edged.

Kees

sorry Jer, I just have to play the bad cop to your good cop once in a while....

Nice splice Mr. Bremmer! A+

Loren: Why do you care so much how a string splice looks? It is not visible with the music desk on.

I agree with you that the customer should be informed of the situation and allowed to make a choice. I can tell you from experience that after doing dozens of splices in the field over the years, I've never had someone wish that I had charged them more to replace the string with a new one. They just want to enjoy playing their piano.

Bill's 5 minute repair could probably be included in the service at no extra charge. A new string can easily cost $100 by the time you include the call backs to retune.

Bill:
Just to check my understanding: the little hook that you make to hold the becket, is on the far side of the tuning pin hole, i.e. where the cut end of the becket would normally sit? I presume you thread the wire through the pin before making this little hook?

Loren:
The bass strings on my Ibach are by no means new anymore - one can hear this. But even after 40 years, they still sound quite pleasant to me - they have some life left in them yet. I would hate to have a replacement string (two strings, actually) that sounds different, creating possible voicing issues, etc. This is why I'd like to try the splice. I don't intend to sell the piano anytime soon, not that it's worth much more than $1500 anyway, but I love it for its sound - especially now that it's finally up to pitch. If a tech offered me the option of splice vs. replacement, I would probably still choose splice in this case.

This type of repair, and whether or not to do it, puts me in mind of the German word, "zeitwertgerecht" (appropriate to age and value).

We'll just have to agree to disagree, which is fine.

I don't charge for the return trips to yank the string up to pitch; I schedule them when I'm in a given area (which is often!). I just always felt that a good repair is, when possible, at least as good as the original in terms of functionality and appearance. Sort of like looking at a piece of fine furniture and being able to tell it was refinished vs. one that was refinished but the job was so well done that you'd never know.

To each his own! I've never had anyone complain that I installed a new string; I've heard many complaints about splices and have had customers request that I replace the knotted string with new ones. Everyone's different, I guess.

I know Jurgen, we're having fun with each other now!

Loren,

We've all heard the pros & cons before and your points are well taken. This job was for the dealer I work for and if I had replaced the string and had to make callbacks, first of all, I would have had the customer calling the dealer. Whether or not the customer sounded upset, the dealer gets upset if there is any such call. If the customer is upset, then it is far worse. If I had replaced the string, I would have received a reprimand from the dealer about it.

So, even though I well understand your point of view, there were far more reasons to splice the string in 5 minutes and be done with it then and there, have the job done as the family was getting home and sitting down to dinner. Breaking a string can make me look incompetent. I can only imagine the incident spoiling their dinner and having them call the dealer at 5 PM and complain about an extra charge and having the dealer call me the next day and rag me about it.

So, in this case, what they didn't know, didn't hurt them. If, at some time in the future, either I or another technician pointed out that there was a spliced string and asked if they wanted it replaced and informed them of what that would involve, that could surely be done. It is not likely that this family would want to sell that piano but if they did and had it appraised, that could be the time for that.

Some technicians will raise Cain at an appraisal. "There's a KNOT in your piano!" Some of them have been trained that way. Others, like me have been trained as explained above that it is actually the best solution under many circumstances. I have known of a technician going to a piano with perfectly stable and functioning string splices and insisting upon replacing them, causing undue expense and tuning instability on a Kohler & Campbell console, for Pete's sake!

There is a reason why the PTG Technical exam requires a string splice and any technician wishing to take that exam should know how to do it well and efficiently, just as I did.

Jer, it being first thing in the morning, those instructions look as complicated to me as trying to explain how to tune ET! I'll never learn that!

Jurgen, the number of times I have seen you post to someone nothing more than "Look it up in the archives" could fill pages!

Mark,

Yes to both.