Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum 1895 kimball upright..its beautiful

Hi Everyone..I am new to this forum and was hoping for some help. I have had a beautifully finished Kimball upright for many years in my living room. The Kimball is patented Sept. 24, 1895 and has a serial number of 252906. The Piano also has the matching piano bench. The condition is excellant and the pattern on the piano is Oak Leaves. I have actually seen this piano in Architectual Digest with the same pattern. I have been searching the internet and have found prices for similar pianos anywhere from $200.00 to $150,000.00...Can someone out there who knows something about pianos PLEASE help me. Is my piano something special or just a regular Kimball....anyone have a estimate on its value? Thanks for your time and valuable information...June

Mind giving us a link to the $150K Kimball? I'm very eager to see a picture of it! You could also post a picture of your Kimball here so that the experts here can take a look.

Hi..I know this link isnt by a piano expert that can be confirmed, thats why I am asking this forum...here is the link

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_value_on_1895_kimball_upright_wood_piano_serial_number_248807

it was a Wiki Answers page......

here is a image that I found of my piano except mine has the serial number 252906..Thanks



http://antiquepianoshop.com/product/211/kimball-oak-victorian-upright-piano/

Your piano was built around 1913. They are a dime a dozen. There are tens of thousands perhaps still even hundreds of thousands, of old upright pianos all over the world. In my opinion, whoever posted that on wiki.answers.com should be asked to pay that person 150,000. Bet you'd never hear from them again.

Nobody can determine a pianos value sight unseen.

Many people that contact me for information on their piano almost always tell me (because they don't understand that it is the insides of the piano, the functional part of the piano, that counts most, whereas, the outside is the furniture part of it) "the piano is in excellent condition." I don't say this to them but, my private thought is, yes, but, by who's standards? My point being, in many of these cases, the piano has been polished and the exterior might be in mint condition however, in almost all cases, the piano hasn't been tuned in years or very infrequently at best and often times, the interior is far, from excellent condition.

As for it being worth 150,000? Ain't no way...

Thanks Jerry, I could only hope it was worth what the unknown appraiser of 54 years quoted on Wiki Answers...Its a beautiful piano and plays very well..It looks great in my living room and I hope to pass it down the family...Do you think its worth the $10,000 that the link I copied sold it for? I know I dont have a ctual photo of mine, but it looks almost exactly like this one....

When I purchased the Piano, we had it professionally refinished to its original color ( 4 layers of white paint were removed)and then we had it professionally tuned and repaired. It was used to give lessons but hasnt been retuned in about 2 years...

It will not fetch $10,000. Only very rare uprights may go for more than that, completely restored- uprights like Pleyel, Steinway and ornate webers (usually a $15,000 or more restoration)

I had a completely striped down and rebuilt up Krakauer from 1914, like new in every way. I could only get $700 out of it after consistently re-listing the ad for less and less.


That person on the wiki page I guarantee is not a piano appraiser. Most all appraisers classifies these old uprights as "little value"


There is almost no market for them anymore.

How sad....A Piano thats over 100 years old is almost worthless.....

Well unfortunately it is true. Pianists almost never want an old piano. Technology has become so far advanced, and new pianos dont need much maintenance like our old ones do.

They are mostly now being used as a piece of furniture more than playing. I can tell the massive benefits of playing my schools Yamaha U1, compared to my 1905 Story and Clark. The action has vastly improved over the years.


But hey, I love the artcase look of my story and clark, and the beautiful mahogany and birds eye maple. I wont ever let it go.

Why is it sad? It's rare that a piano has a 100 year useful life without significant restorative work (usually not done with an upright piano due to the cost vs. value equation).

If it holds a tuning and the keys work, it will be worth a few hundred dollars to somebody, probably. Hey-- that's probably more than the piano sold for in the first place...so it did appreciate, sort of!

No, sorry, it will not go for $10,000. There are so many of these old pianos around and pianos are not selling like they used to sell. It doesn't mean that you can't hang onto it or, have some more work done onto it to pass down to the kids some day...

Pianos regardless of their age including antiques, are all appraised according to their playing ability (looks too of course) along with the quality of workmanship of whomever might have done the repairs/restoration/reconditioning/rebuilding of the insides. I wrote it like that because, there is a big difference between each one of them and especially, and most importantly, a very BIG difference from tuner to tuner and from tuner to technician. More tuners than one might think, are only tuners and are not technicians. Never assume anything...

This is the first time I've ever heard either of these claims. Where do you get this information?

Most actions after about 1900, in both verticals and grands, are very similar regardless of brand or decade.

An old action that has been re-bushed, etc., and well regulated can feel great. I prefer my old Hardman's action (overhauled for $3k in 2006) to lots of newer pianos.



What about the many pianists who can't say enough about how great it is to play 'golden age' pianos?

The OP is talking about a basically unrestored piano, which of course brings its problems. But your post makes it sound like it's not a matter of wear, but of technology.

BTW if this Kimball is an ornate model and has really been refinished well, I think it's unfair to say it's nearly worthless. You should have it inspected and tuned by a technician, if you want to know what you have, and if you want it to present well to any buyer who is looking for a musical instrument. It COULD be worth 500-1000 to the right person.

I see 100 year old upright pianos of various makes on Craigslist all the time… so, I do agree that there are lots of them still out there. And, sometimes the owners want thousands of dollars for them and sometimes they are listed for free. The ones listed for thousands almost never seem to sell and even the ones for free seem to move rather slowly, if at all.

I do think that older uprights can have a very nice, mellow tone not matched by newer pianos.

Here is a pic of an old 1907 Conover I referbished... (removed due to size)


Here is my early 1900's Schiller...

One thing you have to really watch out for with old Kimball pianos is the brass parts. Sometimes they get brittle and will be breaking left and right. The parts were eccentric to Kimball and so they are a bit of a hassle to deal with.

On the other hand I had a beautifully well preserved Kimball that I acquired from the original family. I think I paid $900 for it along with the antique stool. After refurbishing (cleaning and lubrication, key bushings, hammer shaping, regulating, Dampp-chaser, bridle tapes) it sold for around $3000, and the person LOVES it.

No, it is not at all “almost worthless.” It does not have a great deal of monetary value, to be sure, but that is not the same as being worthless.

We are so used to hearing about how Henry Ford “invented” mass production that we have come to believe that he actually did invent mass production; he didn’t. He applied mass production techniques to the automobile but these techniques were being used to build pianos long before Henry came along. Kimball, among others, was building relatively low-cost pianos in powered factories before the automobile was invented.

First Chickering, and then Steinway built factories with steam engines powering line shafts that ran throughout the factory that ran a variety of machinery that was coupled to the shafts by leather belts. These companies were primarily interested in building grand pianos but the manufacturers of vertical pianos quickly picked up the technology and added the beginnings of production lines with the piano components being moved to specialized workers by specialized carts and conveyors. In the early part of the 20th century piano making was big business. It had become big business because mass production technologies had brought the cost of a quite sophisticated piano down to a price the “average working man” could afford.

Since there were few entertainment options available to the average family at the time the market for pianos was strong and by the early 20th century some 300,000 pianos were being built and sold in America every year. This production made the piano one of the most popular musical instruments ever but it also insured that the survivors would not have a great deal of monetary value—there are simply too many of them.

Most of the survivors are, of course, relatively non-descript pianos that were never particularly outstanding either in their musicality or their appearance. These are the pianos that are now finding their way to the land fill or are being recycled into work benches, coffee tables or wine cabinets.

Some few, either because of the reputation of their makers—Bush & Lane, for one example—are occasionally being restored and are once again being made capable of producing the outstanding music their builders envisioned.

Yet others are borderline; their acoustic design was, perhaps, not the best but was competent for the day. And their cabinetry was also not quite the equal of the very best of the day but is still of a style and quality that is otherwise unobtainable today. There is that one drawback; sadly, their monetary value is not high enough to warrant remanufacturing for “spec;” that is, it is not high enough for a rebuilder to purchase and rebuild or remanufacture in the hopes of reselling for enough to at least make it worth his/her investment in parts and materials and time and, yes, a lot of hard work.

This still does not mean these instruments are worthless. They can still be restored and become once again capable of performing extremely well and producing great music—it’s just that their resale value will not be as high as the cost of the restoration. Any conscientious rebuilder will be careful to explain this to the owner; the cost of restoration will exceed the piano’s resale value! For some owners, however, this is not a deal-breaker. They will go ahead with the restoration and they will end up with a beautiful example of late 19th or early 20th century American (usually) manufacturing brilliance that will have another life expectancy exceeding that of the restorer or the far-sighted owner. It’s just that the far-sighted owner won’t be able to sell the thing for the cost of the restoration. But the cost of that restoration will still be considerably less than half that of an imported (usually European) high-end modern piano. So…”worthless?” I don’t think so but, in the end, it depends on the eye and earl of the owner.

ddf

I understand that I wont be able to sell it and retire (boo-hoo), but I had no idea how low the value of Pianos can be....Thanks everyone for the GREAT info..Do these pianos ever actual become "antique" or "vintage"??

FWIW, I paid $300 for the Conover (way too much!) spent a few hundred on it referbishing it and sold it to my sister-in-law for $150. (I'd never make it in the piano business!). I paid $75 for the old Schiller and the owner delivered it for free. That was a much better deal. I still have it and I really like the tiger-oak wood, which had been refinished at some point.

(I removed the pic of the Conover because of the size)

Old uprights can be a lot of fun and great pieces of funiture (and, a decent musical instrument now and then).

Best regards,

Rick

I talked to a couple of different antique dealers about just that every question. Their answer was the same as what I gave earlier. Pianos are not considered antiques until after they reach the age of 100 HOWEVER, the value of the piano is still judged based on its playability, that is, what is required to bring it back into great condition, is it worth it, quality, looks etc. Just like any other piano basically.

Yes they are antique or vintage. But you are equating antique and vintage with a piece of furniture and the piano is a musical instrument. You have an antique piano which has not been restored, as Del has mentioned above, which would bring up its value, beautiful as it may be on the outside.

cross posted with JG!