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Mark_C
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 17605
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Palindrome
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
......Horowitz's...performance of the Dichterliebe with Fischer-Dieskau in the mid-'70's at a big celebration where numerous greats performed....
Did you have the great good fortune to actually be there, or is this available on recording somewhere?
Wasn't there, but have it on LP. I was going to tell more about it, but I can do better than that -- I can show you. It's on youtube (in 3 parts), with an image of the LP right at the beginning (and you can see some of the other names that performed at the concert).
Horowitz's playing is (as usual) a little controversial. Some feel he didn't do the usual good collaborative thing that one should do. I feel what I said.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
Mark_C
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 17605
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Yeah.. I see what you are saying (long-windedly.. ).....
Thanks -- but please show me any words or phrases that you think were extraneous.
Quote:
.....sure, the definition of musicianship can be subjective.. Just not as subjective as you present it to be.
Since you want me to be briefer, I will: You're wrong.
Look how different our definitions are. If you really think Argerich's playing more chamber music has anything to do with a comparison of their musicianship (I can't tell if you do, because you seemed perhaps to somewhat take it back or minimize it in that last post).....if you do, then our definitions are very, very far apart.
P.S. I could have done without one of those "very's."
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)
apple*
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Palindrome
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
......Horowitz's...performance of the Dichterliebe with Fischer-Dieskau in the mid-'70's at a big celebration where numerous greats performed....
Did you have the great good fortune to actually be there, or is this available on recording somewhere?
Wasn't there, but have it on LP. I was going to tell more about it, but I can do better than that -- I can show you. It's on youtube (in 3 parts), with an image of the LP right at the beginning (and you can see some of the other names that performed at the concert).
Horowitz's playing is (as usual) a little controversial. Some feel he didn't do the usual good collaborative thing that one should do. I feel what I said.
Andromaque
3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3837
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
(I can't tell if you do, because you seemed perhaps to somewhat take it back or minimize it in that last post).....if you do, then our definitions are very, very far apart.
P.S. I could have done without one of those "very's."
I did not take it back. Not sure where/why you "detected" that. Actually the fact that his lieder playing impressed you by its "musicianship" speaks in favor of my definition, like it or not. To clarify again: I am not equating musicianship simply with "playing chamber music", but proposing that doing so brilliantly speaks additional volumes about an artist's musical abilities. In fact dismissing that component altogether when comparing those two otherwise very accomplished artists, is odd, IMHO!!
Good grief, bloody hell. Rubinstein's octaves over Argerich? What are you smoking? There is a lot I admire about Rubinstein -and those treacherous octaves in the Chopin F minor Fantasy are well addressed- but in general Rubinstein's octaves are the Toyota Camry compared to Argerich's BMW 3 series.
Watch this interesting interview with Sir Charles Groves. There is some great footage of Argerich's octaves (they are really awesome), also her priceless English: 'I am not afraid of speed on the contrary, on the contrary that is my problem.'
Good grief, bloody hell. Rubinstein's octaves over Argerich? What are you smoking? There is a lot I admire about Rubinstein -and those treacherous octaves in the Chopin F minor Fantasy are well addressed- but in general Rubinstein's octaves are the Toyota Camry compared to Argerich's BMW 3 series.
Sorry, I was sidetracked on the musicality comments, though a very young Rubinstein showed evidence of playing octaves as he pleased. Argerich is very fast but I'm bored by her playing. It sounds very thoughtless and rushed to me. (of course I don't expect you to agree with this either)
_________________________ Nothing primes the pump like the panic of impending performance.
argerichfan
8000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8186
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Damon
Argerich is very fast but I'm bored by her playing. It sounds very thoughtless and rushed to me. (of course I don't expect you to agree with this either)
Well of course not, no more than we agree politically.
At least disagreements over Argerich do not constitute a danger to the well being humanity. Ha ha!
BTW, please change my name on the Liszt e-cital to 'argerichfan', not 'Argerichfan'. Always the small capital 'a' out of respect.
Practising the 'Preludio' is going well, but it is not a piece new to my repertoire. Just trying to get the damn thing back into my hands.
Damon
5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 5327
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Damon
Argerich is very fast but I'm bored by her playing. It sounds very thoughtless and rushed to me. (of course I don't expect you to agree with this either)
Well of course not, no more than we agree politically.
At least disagreements over Argerich do not constitute a danger to the well being humanity. Ha ha!
Yes, some want humanity to continue while others prefer to have humans mimic the behaviour of ants.
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
BTW, please change my name on the Liszt e-cital to 'argerichfan', not 'Argerichfan'. Always the small capital 'a' out of respect.
OK
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Practising the 'Preludio' is going well, but it is not a piece new to my repertoire. Just trying to get the damn thing back into my hands.
Mine are all new to me, but I always meant to add them.
_________________________ Nothing primes the pump like the panic of impending performance.
Damon
5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 5327
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Damon
Mine are all new to me, but I always meant to add them.
So you just started? Get to work, matey!
I'm working harder on this than most things in a long time. Getting back on topic, I think the thing that makes Horowitz's octaves so compelling is the way he finishes them. For instance, in the G minor Ballade ascending runs he accelerates them to the last note. I've noticed that he drops a thumb here and there, but the overall effect is hair-raising. Katsaris has some fast octaves too.
_________________________ Nothing primes the pump like the panic of impending performance.
argerichfan
8000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8186
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
How does hot chocolate sound?
Thanks anyway, OSK, I don't do sugar, I'm one of them dreaded 'health food' freaks. No fast food, no processed food, I always eat healthy.
Now I'm trying to justify why that medium-rare steak tasted so awesome last night. And then there was the garlic bread, the blue-cheese salad dressing, the deep fried calamari with succulent sauce, baked potatoes with rich sour cream, broccoli with cheddar cheese sauce, it was all so grotesque. And I'm not even mentioning the wine or dessert, nor even the beautiful waiters.
Orange Soda King
5000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 5241
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
How does hot chocolate sound?
Thanks anyway, OSK, I don't do sugar, I'm one of them dreaded 'health food' freaks. No fast food, no processed food, I always eat healthy.
Now I'm trying to justify why that medium-rare steak tasted so awesome last night. And then there was the garlic bread, the blue-cheese salad dressing, the deep fried calamari with succulent sauce, baked potatoes with rich sour cream, broccoli with cheddar cheese sauce, it was all so grotesque. And I'm not even mentioning the wine or dessert, nor even the beautiful waiters.
Damn. Sometimes it's so hard to be a liberal.
Hey dude, I just meant that I get the hot chocolate (or Orange Crush, haha), and you get whatever your heart most desires!
argerichfan
8000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8186
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Damon
Yes, since cattle rearing creates more greenhouse gases than cars, I can see why you have difficulty justifying your politics.
No, I have no difficulty justifying my politics. Conservatives routinely ignore scientific evidence because by nature they are programmed to think that the planet is theirs for the taking. I see this attitude so often. Sorry, mate.
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