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#1624586 - 02/20/11 05:21 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Bech]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6553
--------------Horowitz
--------------Rubinstein
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------Argerich....zzzzzz
-------------- laugh

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#1624606 - 02/20/11 06:02 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Palindrome]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21045
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Palindrome
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
......Horowitz's...performance of the Dichterliebe with Fischer-Dieskau in the mid-'70's at a big celebration where numerous greats performed....

Did you have the great good fortune to actually be there, or is this available on recording somewhere?

Wasn't there, but have it on LP.
I was going to tell more about it, but I can do better than that -- I can show you. smile
It's on youtube (in 3 parts), with an image of the LP right at the beginning (and you can see some of the other names that performed at the concert).



Horowitz's playing is (as usual) a little controversial. Some feel he didn't do the usual good collaborative thing that one should do. I feel what I said.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1624608 - 02/20/11 06:05 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Andromaque]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21045
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Yeah.. I see what you are saying (long-windedly.. smile ).....

Thanks -- but please show me any words or phrases that you think were extraneous. smile

Quote:
.....sure, the definition of musicianship can be subjective.. Just not as subjective as you present it to be.

Since you want me to be briefer, I will:
You're wrong. ha

Look how different our definitions are. If you really think Argerich's playing more chamber music has anything to do with a comparison of their musicianship (I can't tell if you do, because you seemed perhaps to somewhat take it back or minimize it in that last post).....if you do, then our definitions are very, very far apart.

P.S. I could have done without one of those "very's." ha
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1624612 - 02/20/11 06:13 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21045
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: stores
Why? He's right.

Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist
Nope. He's WRONG.

Originally Posted By: debrucey
He may be right....

Originally Posted By: Mark_C
You're wrong. ha

Where's Horowitzian when we need him? ha
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1624629 - 02/20/11 06:29 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Bech]
Bech Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 851
Loc: Indiana
Try Tiempo T1 in the YouTube search box for Sergio Tiempo's octaves.

Then, if the spirit moves you, give his other YouTube performances a look.

He's a friend and former student of Argerich's.

Bech


Edited by Bech (02/20/11 06:30 PM)
_________________________
Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.

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#1624630 - 02/20/11 06:29 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Mark_C]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Palindrome
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
......Horowitz's...performance of the Dichterliebe with Fischer-Dieskau in the mid-'70's at a big celebration where numerous greats performed....

Did you have the great good fortune to actually be there, or is this available on recording somewhere?

Wasn't there, but have it on LP.
I was going to tell more about it, but I can do better than that -- I can show you. smile
It's on youtube (in 3 parts), with an image of the LP right at the beginning (and you can see some of the other names that performed at the concert).



Horowitz's playing is (as usual) a little controversial. Some feel he didn't do the usual good collaborative thing that one should do. I feel what I said.


at Palindrome..



WOW
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1624639 - 02/20/11 06:36 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: apple*]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21045
Loc: New York
Nice link, Apple!
I had forgotten that at that concert Horowitz also played a movement of the Tchaikovsky Trio (with Stern & Rostropovich).

....and here that is too:

_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1624723 - 02/20/11 08:31 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Mark_C]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
(I can't tell if you do, because you seemed perhaps to somewhat take it back or minimize it in that last post).....if you do, then our definitions are very, very far apart.

P.S. I could have done without one of those "very's." ha


I did not take it back. Not sure where/why you "detected" that.
Actually the fact that his lieder playing impressed you by its "musicianship" speaks in favor of my definition, like it or not. To clarify again: I am not equating musicianship simply with "playing chamber music", but proposing that doing so brilliantly speaks additional volumes about an artist's musical abilities. In fact dismissing that component altogether when comparing those two otherwise very accomplished artists, is odd, IMHO!!

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#1624724 - 02/20/11 08:32 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Damon]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Damon
--------------Horowitz
--------------Rubinstein
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------Argerich....zzzzzz
-------------- laugh

Good grief, bloody hell. Rubinstein's octaves over Argerich? What are you smoking? There is a lot I admire about Rubinstein -and those treacherous octaves in the Chopin F minor Fantasy are well addressed- but in general Rubinstein's octaves are the Toyota Camry compared to Argerich's BMW 3 series.

Watch this interesting interview with Sir Charles Groves. There is some great footage of Argerich's octaves (they are really awesome), also her priceless English: 'I am not afraid of speed on the contrary, on the contrary that is my problem.'

_________________________
Jason

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#1624746 - 02/20/11 09:40 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: argerichfan]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6553
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Damon
--------------Horowitz
--------------Rubinstein
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------
--------------Argerich....zzzzzz
-------------- laugh

Good grief, bloody hell. Rubinstein's octaves over Argerich? What are you smoking? There is a lot I admire about Rubinstein -and those treacherous octaves in the Chopin F minor Fantasy are well addressed- but in general Rubinstein's octaves are the Toyota Camry compared to Argerich's BMW 3 series.


Sorry, I was sidetracked on the musicality comments, though a very young Rubinstein showed evidence of playing octaves as he pleased. Argerich is very fast but I'm bored by her playing. It sounds very thoughtless and rushed to me. (of course I don't expect you to agree with this either) wink

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#1624756 - 02/20/11 09:55 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Damon]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Damon
Argerich is very fast but I'm bored by her playing. It sounds very thoughtless and rushed to me. (of course I don't expect you to agree with this either) wink

Well of course not, no more than we agree politically.

At least disagreements over Argerich do not constitute a danger to the well being humanity. Ha ha! laugh

BTW, please change my name on the Liszt e-cital to 'argerichfan', not 'Argerichfan'. Always the small capital 'a' out of respect.

Practising the 'Preludio' is going well, but it is not a piece new to my repertoire. Just trying to get the damn thing back into my hands.
_________________________
Jason

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#1624763 - 02/20/11 10:09 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: argerichfan]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6553
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Damon
Argerich is very fast but I'm bored by her playing. It sounds very thoughtless and rushed to me. (of course I don't expect you to agree with this either) wink

Well of course not, no more than we agree politically.

At least disagreements over Argerich do not constitute a danger to the well being humanity. Ha ha! laugh

Yes, some want humanity to continue while others prefer to have humans mimic the behaviour of ants. ha
Originally Posted By: argerichfan

BTW, please change my name on the Liszt e-cital to 'argerichfan', not 'Argerichfan'. Always the small capital 'a' out of respect.


OK

Originally Posted By: argerichfan

Practising the 'Preludio' is going well, but it is not a piece new to my repertoire. Just trying to get the damn thing back into my hands.

smile Mine are all new to me, but I always meant to add them.

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#1624798 - 02/20/11 11:07 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Damon]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Damon
Mine are all new to me, but I always meant to add them.

So you just started? Get to work, matey!

laugh
_________________________
Jason

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#1624823 - 02/20/11 11:42 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: argerichfan]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6553
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Damon
Mine are all new to me, but I always meant to add them.

So you just started? Get to work, matey!

laugh


I'm working harder on this than most things in a long time. smile Getting back on topic, I think the thing that makes Horowitz's octaves so compelling is the way he finishes them. For instance, in the G minor Ballade ascending runs he accelerates them to the last note. I've noticed that he drops a thumb here and there, but the overall effect is hair-raising. Katsaris has some fast octaves too.

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#1624827 - 02/20/11 11:50 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Bech]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6629
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Hamelin's octaves > Horowitz's octaves, in my personal opinion. They are every bit as fast and sound much more refined to me.

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#1624828 - 02/20/11 11:52 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Damon]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Damon
Katsaris has some fast octaves too.

Most definitely, Katsaris is in a class by himself.

Why is he not considered one of the top pianists today? I'll take him over that silly Asian (whatever his name is) anyday.

I just made 6000 posts. Cheers!
_________________________
Jason

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#1624829 - 02/20/11 11:53 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Orange Soda King]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Hamelin's octaves > Horowitz's octaves, in my personal opinion. They are every bit as fast and sound much more refined to me.

More so than Argerich?
_________________________
Jason

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#1624830 - 02/20/11 11:53 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: argerichfan]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6629
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Damon
Katsaris has some fast octaves too.

Most definitely, Katsaris is in a class by himself.

Why is he not considered one of the top pianists today? I'll take him over that silly Asian (whatever his name is) anyday.

I just made 6000 posts. Cheers!


His octaves are tremendous.

Whee!! I made 2316 posts! Let's celebrate!

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#1624831 - 02/20/11 11:55 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: argerichfan]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6629
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Hamelin's octaves > Horowitz's octaves, in my personal opinion. They are every bit as fast and sound much more refined to me.

More so than Argerich?


The world shall never know where I stand on that issue!

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#1624832 - 02/20/11 11:57 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Orange Soda King]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King

Whee!! I made 2316 posts! Let's celebrate!

A Starbucks latte for you.

Me, I'll take a fine French wine. Not real big on the California stuff...
_________________________
Jason

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#1624834 - 02/20/11 11:58 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Orange Soda King]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King

The world shall never know where I stand on that issue!

I didn't realize there was an issue.
_________________________
Jason

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#1624835 - 02/20/11 11:59 PM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: argerichfan]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6629
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King

Whee!! I made 2316 posts! Let's celebrate!

A Starbucks latte for you.

Me, I'll take a fine French wine. Not real big on the California stuff...


I'm not a coffee drinker, actually. How does hot chocolate sound?

No even better, how about a nice big

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#1624838 - 02/21/11 12:04 AM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Bech]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
But listen to this bloke:

_________________________
Jason

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#1624850 - 02/21/11 12:19 AM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Orange Soda King]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
How does hot chocolate sound?

Thanks anyway, OSK, I don't do sugar, I'm one of them dreaded 'health food' freaks. No fast food, no processed food, I always eat healthy.

Now I'm trying to justify why that medium-rare steak tasted so awesome last night. And then there was the garlic bread, the blue-cheese salad dressing, the deep fried calamari with succulent sauce, baked potatoes with rich sour cream, broccoli with cheddar cheese sauce, it was all so grotesque. And I'm not even mentioning the wine or dessert, nor even the beautiful waiters.

Damn. Sometimes it's so hard to be a liberal.
_________________________
Jason

Top
#1624853 - 02/21/11 12:24 AM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: argerichfan]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6629
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
How does hot chocolate sound?

Thanks anyway, OSK, I don't do sugar, I'm one of them dreaded 'health food' freaks. No fast food, no processed food, I always eat healthy.

Now I'm trying to justify why that medium-rare steak tasted so awesome last night. And then there was the garlic bread, the blue-cheese salad dressing, the deep fried calamari with succulent sauce, baked potatoes with rich sour cream, broccoli with cheddar cheese sauce, it was all so grotesque. And I'm not even mentioning the wine or dessert, nor even the beautiful waiters.

Damn. Sometimes it's so hard to be a liberal.



Hey dude, I just meant that I get the hot chocolate (or Orange Crush, haha), and you get whatever your heart most desires!

By the way, I like that video you posted! laugh

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#1624859 - 02/21/11 12:33 AM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Damon]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21045
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
..... For instance, in the G minor Ballade ascending runs he accelerates them to the last note. I've noticed that he drops a thumb here and there....

Aha!!!
(Gotta try that.....)
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1624868 - 02/21/11 12:53 AM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Bech]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Isn't this essentially the Horowitz take on Liszt's wedding march?

Before I post it, two things: Mendelssohn is underrated, and someday I would love to get married.


_________________________
Jason

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#1624873 - 02/21/11 01:11 AM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: argerichfan]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6553
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Damon
Katsaris has some fast octaves too.

Most definitely, Katsaris is in a class by himself.

Why is he not considered one of the top pianists today?


I consider him one of the top pianists today.

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#1624876 - 02/21/11 01:19 AM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: argerichfan]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6553
Originally Posted By: argerichfan

Now I'm trying to justify why that medium-rare steak tasted so awesome last night.

Damn. Sometimes it's so hard to be a liberal.


Yes, since cattle rearing creates more greenhouse gases than cars, I can see why you have difficulty justifying your politics. laugh

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#1624891 - 02/21/11 01:53 AM Re: Horowitz's Octaves [Re: Damon]
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 9293
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Damon

Yes, since cattle rearing creates more greenhouse gases than cars, I can see why you have difficulty justifying your politics. laugh

No, I have no difficulty justifying my politics. Conservatives routinely ignore scientific evidence because by nature they are programmed to think that the planet is theirs for the taking. I see this attitude so often. Sorry, mate. laugh
_________________________
Jason

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