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#1629536 - 02/27/11 08:25 PM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9678
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Toh-may-toh, toh-mah-toh...

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1629716 - 02/28/11 04:14 AM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: craig1999871
[quote=MacMacMac]So what exactly is meant by "layer"?
Timbre varies with volume, so the sound is more realistic.

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#1629723 - 02/28/11 04:47 AM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 619
Originally Posted By: craig1999871
Another question(if I did buy the mp10) I notice it has 3 layers of piano sounds. Im guessing that is dynamic as in p f ff. Would I be able to get a vst that does 4 or 5 when available? or is it a sensor thing that is on the piano that only looks for 3 velocity layers.


Most DP keyboards will produce all (or most) MIDI velocity levels from 0-127. Some actually don't produce levels much above 105-110, but it's easy to expand the range all the way to 127 in the computer that runs your virtual piano software. The number of actual sample levels captured (recorded) from an acoustic piano varies from as few as 3 in a DP to many more in virtual piano software (Ivory II has 18 captured levels for instance). DPs and virtual pianos will interpolate between the captured levels for the entire range of 0-127 velocity levels. The advantage of capturing more sample levels from the acoustic piano is the ability reproduce the acoustic's wide timbre range (as opposed to only volume changes) as the keys are struck at different velocities.

You said above that "my priorities are to have the best possible acoustic grand sound and to have the best possible touch feel to that of a real piano." IMO, you will never achieve your sound priorities with a DP. That requires many more captured sampling layers than normally found in DP's. It also requires sustain (damper pedal) resonance, sympathetic string resonance, release samples, and half pedaling capabilities that are typically either not included or not done particularly well in DPs.

I would be willing to bet that whatever DP you buy it will not sound nearly as good to you 30 days after you buy it when you've had the time and experience with it to discover it's limitations emulating an acoustic piano. (You will never be perfectly happy with virtual piano software either, but it's a lot less expensive to spend $100-$300 to upgrade, or acquire a selection of virtual piano software for different musical preferences, than buy new DP's). So my bottom line recommendation is to buy a DP keyboard for the touch you like (and be sure you get a proportional damper pedal) and any fun features you might like to fool around with, but pretty much ignore its built in piano sounds. Unless you spend considerable money for a DP, you can also ignore its built-in speakers and amplifiers because they also won't satisfy your stated goal. You'll have to provide a separate sound system if you want to approach the sound of an acoustic piano. Then get some first-class virtual piano software and you should be in pretty good shape to meet your goals.

Just my opinion, but it works for me.
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#1629743 - 02/28/11 06:41 AM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
craig son of berg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 158
Loc: WPB, FL, US of A
Thanks macy. I know I'm tired of my acoustic piano. Thanks for all your detailed help.
_________________________
play that one again sam

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#1629763 - 02/28/11 07:34 AM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: FogVilleLad]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3899
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: FogVilleLad
Originally Posted By: craig1999871
[quote=MacMacMac]So what exactly is meant by "layer"?
Timbre varies with volume, so the sound is more realistic.
I see that some pianos (Casio) feature "split and layers", while others (Roland) offer "layers, zones, and effects" ... which can be selected/configured.

So it seems that to them (Casio, Roland), layers means something quite different than sampling levels. Exactly what they mean I cannot say.

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#1629764 - 02/28/11 07:37 AM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9678
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
MacMacMac, I expect 'layers' in this context refers to the ability to combine two or more different sounds (e.g. piano with strings). In the Kawai world this is referred to as 'Dual Mode'.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1629790 - 02/28/11 08:43 AM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
hpeterh Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Germany
In this interview, the interviewer explicitely asked about the samples, and how many "layers". He appeared a little bit to be a layman and did not know the right term ;-)

The Kawai man answered these samples are all totally new and incredibly big and "up to seven layers in the MP10". The other stuff that was talked about is not of interest here, it is commonly known stuff.

Ok, when he played the MP6, the interviewer wondered about the very "fat" sound and asked "is there reverb in?". Kawai man answered " no reverb, thats purely the pedal's effect".

;-)
_________________________
1929 Galaxy Bl├╝thner Baby Grand
acer aspire m3300 AMD Phenom II X6


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#1630668 - 03/01/11 12:16 PM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: hpeterh]
craig son of berg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 158
Loc: WPB, FL, US of A
looks like kawai mp10's are not available until march 18th 2011. anybody hear different date?
_________________________
play that one again sam

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#1630842 - 03/01/11 04:53 PM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9678
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
craig2999871, may I ask where you heard this information?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1630856 - 03/01/11 05:12 PM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: Kawai James]
craig son of berg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 158
Loc: WPB, FL, US of A
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
craig2999871, may I ask where you heard this information?

Kind regards,
James
x

http://www.kraftmusic.com/catalog/keyboards/88keykeyboards/index.asp?product=8595
Out Of Stock
This item is currently out of stock. It is expected to arrive on 3/18/2011.

can you add any info about why everyone is out?


Edited by craig1999871 (03/01/11 05:13 PM)
_________________________
play that one again sam

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#1630897 - 03/01/11 06:09 PM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9678
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: craig1999871
can you add any info about why everyone is out?


I'm sorry, I'm not involved in that side of the business - I just write the owner's manuals and brochures.

Questions relating to instrument pricing, distribution, and availability within the US are best handled by the folks at Kawai US.

Kind regards,
James
x

_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1630972 - 03/01/11 08:09 PM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: Kawai James]
craig son of berg Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 158
Loc: WPB, FL, US of A
seems like alot of things are having production problems lately. must be the crappy economy. thanks obama! change alright.
_________________________
play that one again sam

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#1671931 - 05/05/11 10:17 AM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
Piotrek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 6
Hi!! I'm sorry for my language but I am from Poland ( forgive me! ). I've read a lot of text about yamaha cvp especialy cvp 500 series. I am intersted to buy yamaha cvp 505 or 509. I know the differences between those two models but i want to know if 509 is worth its price?? I know that 505 is very good digital piano but 509 has more speakers - that means it better sounds. But is it worth to spend 2000$ more comparing to 505????
I will be very greatfull for answer!!
I want to add that I've never played on 505 and 509.
I tried to 403 and 405 and I love it!!

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#1671934 - 05/05/11 10:18 AM Re: yamaha cvp 5xx series can anyone shed some light on these? [Re: craig son of berg]
Piotrek Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 6
Hi!! I'm sorry for my language but I am from Poland ( forgive me! ). I've read a lot of text about yamaha cvp especialy cvp 500 series. I am intersted to buy yamaha cvp 505 or 509. I know the differences between those two models but i want to know if 509 is worth its price?? I know that 505 is very good digital piano but 509 has more speakers - that means it better sounds. But is it worth to spend 2000$ more comparing to 505????
I will be very greatfull for answer!!
I want to add that I've never played on 505 and 509.
I tried to 403 and 405 and I love it!!

Top
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