As an adult beginner, do videos like this get under your skin?



I am ashamed to admit they kind of get under my skin. When I was a little kid I asked my parents for music lessons and they said "no way." I think I am jealous, not because she can play that well and I can't; rather, it is because I was never given the opportunity to learn to play that well. Of course there is no rational reason for me to be jealous, since its not my fault (so far as I can tell) that my parents never let me take music lessons.

To be completely honest, videos like the one above and this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnVNZ413yfE&feature=related
actually makes me want to work harder at the piano just out of sheer frustration and spite.

Part of what makes these videos so much more irritating is that I know these kids aren't actually prodigies in the true sense of the word. They are just young kids who have been made to work incredibly hard for a few years. And it is quite possible that they have perfect pitch to aid them. For instance, the little boy in the second video seems to me to be nothing more than just a little stimulus-response engine his parents have shaped like a scientist shapes a rat to press a lever. Even without all the glaring mistakes he made, there is no way I would buy and intentionally listen to this kid's performance, whether I knew his age or not. If he played the piece like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7YJHgZaelY&feature=related
then I would consider him a prodigy.

A prodigy in the true sense of the word should inspire me to listen to their music. For instance, I would consider buying a CD of the girl in the top video, but given her age she has probably been playing for a good seven years at least and thus can't be considered a prodigy. Which is what makes it all the more irritating! Because this suggests to me that if I had been given the same opportunity it could have been me playing the Moszkowski Etude. This is definitely jealousy of the highest order, but I don't care.

If were simply the case that these kids were actually prodigies then everything would be so much simpler. Their talent could be explained away by just pure luck in the gene pool. But as anyone who has read "This is your brain on music" knows, this is simply not the case. And if you think it is, and you think you have an example to prove it, there are a lot of cognitive psychologists who would like to have a word with you.

Anyway, I am of course venting. I wish both these kids the best of luck, but seriously, I do hate these videos.

So what's the problem? In seven years of hard work you too can be playing like this...or better! So go to your piano and practice, practice, practice!

You haven't been at it long enough. The piano repertoire is incredibly vast and the dropout rate is very high (it is not unheard of for a talented player to graduate from a top conservatory and then never play a note again). With the piano, it typically takes about ten yrs. just to get your feet wet. Early twenties is still very young for a beginner at the piano.

It's OK to get just a bit envious of young people who can really play. Check this six year old out, this is really good unlike the 7 year old's Flight of the Bumblebee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slbqXKReg9g

Then there's Aimi Kobayashi! Here she is playing the 1st movement of the Waldstein at 12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBWtNK32qoU&feature=related

It's heartening to me that such ability exists, even if I don't possess it. C'est la vie!

I'm guessing you don't listen to "From the Top" on PBS every Monday?

Have you seen this!



I have had enough! From this day forward my one all consuming goal is the Piano! The rest of the world can go up in smoke for all I care.

WAU! I am tremendously impressed by Gavin Georg! His playing is brilliant!! He is 6 years old and he has a deeper understanding of music than I will probably ever have! And he only plays a couple of hours per day. That is pure talent if you ask me For instance the child that polyphasicpianist posted above played 8 hours a day and he doesn't sound quite like Gavin.

I am usually not very impressed by youngsters playing since their music is usually not very musical. Sure their physical skill is out of this world and very much beyond me, but I listen to music for music, not the skill Gavin on the other hand has all the music one could desire for!

Okay to be envious.

But don't kid yourself. Think back to when you were young - would you REALLY have practiced?

That's what I ask my adult students who say they wish they started when they were younger.

No.

What they wish is that they were at the same level without any of the work.

Regardless of the age you start, you can learn. Don't be bummed out about it. Look to it for inspiration.

+1

A teacher told me that fewer than 1% of kids who start out young make it to an advanced level, and probably even less reach an advanced level below the age of 12. Statistically, you probably wouldn't have been a prodigy. It requires a very specific set of circumstances. For example, most teachers don't believe that pushing a kid that hard, that fast is a good idea. I've studied with a teacher that did, and it was no piece of cake. That kind of teacher also requires cooperation from the parents to be partners in enforcing a strict practice regime, which mine didn't. Even if your parents had signed you up for lessons, would they have had the gumption to force your butt on the stool for 3+ hours a day?

This sounds about right - but even most of those few prodigies who make it to the advanced level probably don't continue to any great length or extent with their piano studies or make a career of it (except for teaching) - after all, how many concert pianists can the arts world support at any time and how many recording contracts are actually available?

But it's still so common here at PW to see posts of YT videos of these prodigies - we've had them over and over and over and this is becoming tedious and irritatingly boring simply because there is nothing new or unusual or exciting about them anymore.

If you want pianistic accomplihments that are new and unusual and exciting all you have to do is listen to the ABF's monthly Piano Bars and quarterly Recitals - this is where the true incredibly remarklable achievements - by adults - are happening.

JF

I have to admit to a huge amount of green-eyed envy when watching these incredibly skillful children, but I have also to admit that I don't (and never did) have the sheer determination and drive to sit at the keyboard for 3+ hours a day studying theory, technic, and repertoire.
My hat's off to these kids for their brilliance and work ethic. It's because of them and their predecessors that we can to to concerts and hear the most complicated works of Chopin, Beethoven, and Liszt rattled off with flawless ease and musicianship.
Were the piano world left up to people like me (and to the fellow I was at age 8, forced to take lessons), we'd be flocking to concerts to hear "When the Saints Go Marching In" and "Lavender's Blue."

Indeed. But the characteristics that defined us when we were children -- difficulty in focussing for long practice sessions, and an inability or an unwillingness to sweat the technical details until quasi-perfection is achieved -- often still define us as adults.

This is not simply pessimism. I think it's a realistic way of looking at ourselves. If we want to progress as adults differently than we progressed and learned as children, we must in some sense change ourselves. This makeover is not easy, and many of us never fully achieve it.

Adults do have certain advantages, but we also face many other constraints. The balance between them is very individual.

Yes.

I respectfully disagree - while these two characteristics may occassionally define some adult learners, I think that more often than not exactly the opposite is precisely what defines the majority of us - an ability to focus and a willingness to "sweat the details", along with a solid long term dedication to achieving realistic goals.




But, many of us have done this - slowly, haltingly, clumsily, painfully and sometimes incompletely - it's called "wising-up", aka maturation.

JF

Me too. Not on the prodigy level of course but I think had my parents been able to give me a piano when I asked for one at 14 I would have at least gone into adulthood somewhat proficient at playing and reading. Instead of watchng MTV when I was supposed to be doing my homework I probably would have been playing piano instead of doing my homework.

I was talking about the people who particularly remark on how they could have been at an extremely high level. The truth of the matter is, you probably wouldn't have practiced that much.

And really, you can easily say yes now, but you never know what you would have actually done as a child.

Google 'Emily Bear' for some YouTube videos. She picked out scales at age 3 and went on from there. She's now 9 or 10, I think, and has composed music (jazz and classical) which sounds pretty good. I think she is a true prodigy, not the product of being forced to practice hours a day. For some, they hear the music in their head and music comes out their fingers. More power to them.

Emily Bear

compositions

+1

...rant...

I don't know why it is people feel a need to parade young children out as "prodigies". Having the technique and physicality to play advance pieces is impressive, but does not a 'prodigy' make. At some point playing pieces becomes less about any actual talent and more about simply putting in the required practice hours. The numerous videos out there of so called "young mozarts" speak less of talent and more of a helicopter parent culture pushing children in some horrific competition with other like-minded parents.

As a child, I rapidly became uninvolved and detached in music because of the sick competitiveness of it. Over time, I've come to believe that a truly great musician shares part of their soul with the audience - a representation of their full life time of experience and emotion. Look at the 'classic' songs with staying power through the past 100 years, and you'll see a large number of stories and character.

When the dust settles from one of these children on stage, only a few leave anything beyond "wow, she/he was so young". Those few may eventually live on to deliver great things to us, provided that they have an opportunity to grow and realize that music and life is about so much more than simply being 'better' than someone else.

Has music really become so shallow as to only measure greatness by the age someone first hits a competition or plays some arbitrary piece? Developing at piano requires practice and passion, not constant comparisons to other players. Great art is expression - otherwise, we might as well just put in a CD.

../rant...

+1

(Finally someone understands why I created this thread.)

I appreciate the "rant" as well.

1. First of all I feel many of these kids are a product of parental manipulation. One could take any child and with hours of teaching and practice teach them to do surgery, dentistry, fly a plane, etc. So what? To what end?

2. What is being sacrificed to all this piano practice? Friends, sports and exercize, movies, other music, reading? Will these children have a chance at being "normal"?

Tiger Woods was raised as a progidy, the world revolved around him all his life. He really turned into a nice family man...

+3! The arts are about communicating. Just as writers need to have something to say, so do painters, sculptors, and musicians. Stanza, you raise a really important point about the things being sacrificed to piano practice. Friends, sports, movies, etc all add up to being involved in life & having something to say artistically.

There have been some children who showed a lot of aptitude early in life though - Art Tatum & Ray Charles both started playing as soon as they could reach the keyboard; Duke Ellington, on the other hand, had lessons when he was a kid, but didn't show much interest, was more interested in sports, & studied commercial art in college. (I read a lot of biographies - about to start Bill Evans')

He was even very nice to his "extended family"...all 12 or so of them...

JF

my rant..
I don't have envy for those talented children but my heart goes out to their siblings (if they have any).

Maybe not completely the same circumstances, but I was also overwhelmed by competitiveness. For my mother, art is the most important thing. She did not care about my grades at all. My mom teaches Japanese dancing. She tried to teach me Japanese dancing but gave it up because of my lack of talent (supposedly I danced like a foot thumping pesant dancer and displayed total lack of gracefulness - I was only 6 years old). Ok, folks, don't criticise her now. She is an old beauty queen and has not really grown up. Anyway she decided to let me take music lessons instead. My brother, my cousins and I all played piano, violin and had to study drawing. Both my brother and one of my cousins won reginal piano competitions at different times. They were placed into "talented student's class" in my town's only music center. They got to take lessons from a young and beautiful teacher from Tokyo. She had a piano performance degree from a well known conservatory in Tokyo. My teacher was an old woman who was in charge of the rest of the students who deemed to be very average. She was very kind and patient but was very old school. I had to do those old Beyer piano books while my they were doing Burgmular piano pieces which was more musical and interesting than the ones on Beyer books. Anyway, when my brother who started 3 years later get ahead of me, I finally lost will to continue even though I like the music. We were constantly compared, it was too much to bear for my little heart.

Fast forward 30 years. Neither my brother or cousins are playing now I am old and matured and I don't care what other people say at this point. I like music therefore I do. Life is finite. We gotta do what we want to do. I am at least thankful that my parents sent me to piano lessons.

That's really interesting, FarmGirl. Most siblings take different instruments, so that probably cuts down on this sort of thing. One of my cousins was a child piano prodigy. She won regional competitions and played on TV before the age of 10. She played advanced pieces that challenged the span of her tiny hands as a kid. However, she's older than me so my parents used her as a role model to try to motivate me. It would probably be demoralizing if a younger cousin or sibling played better. My cousin is a very successful piano teacher now. Kudos to her!

Yes...Sometimes we're trying to prove a point. To defend our ego perhaps? Convicting myself as much as anyone else. Not an attack at you.

You really should look into Emily Bear.
The other post was wrong. All on her own. She started playing scales at 2 years old. Not 3.

Her mother is wise.... All she wants is for Emily to be a happy little girl.

Practice? Varies greatly. Also have to admit she's had some great teachers.

She writes music. Give her a word and she plays on the piano what it means to her musically. Probably at least in part due to her great teachers.

Last and most important. She says it comes from the heart. Which is one point most adults should listen to.

I do believe Emily is a true prodigy. I look forward to what she does with her favorite when she matures: Jazz.

Kids should be kids, and that includes adults fawning over them for what they're supposed to do. Maybe Emily wants to be a doctor, engineer, teacher, and not a pianist. My response to seeing videos on here was to say "interesting" and move on. Assuming the various news clips and youtube videos are actually "her", and not the result of careful editing, coaching, and marketing, I still have no interest in holding her up as some sort of example until she decides that's what she wants to do.

At some point these children have to grow up, until then, I feel more sympathy than wonder, awe, or respect. I've seen it happen before that the 7yo doing work of college students eventually becomes an adult, and at that point recognition for their level of skill becomes harder and harder to obtain, simply because they compete in the same arena as those with even more experience. At some point, mastery requires not only talent but experience.

Maybe my perspective is different, but seeing a kid play with such technique doesn't influence me in what I think of my skill much more or less than watching videos of other great players.

Frozenicicles, yeah, I wish my mom made my brother take some other instrument. But he wanted to take Piano since I was doing it. I also think it's fairly common that the younger one be successful - they have an advantage to listen to piano since when they are babies while the first one has to learn it from the scratch. My piano currnt teacher's solution is not to let two siblings perform the same piece for the recital and allow the parents to come to the performance portion of the annual recital. They can come to a little gathering after the performance. It may sounds a little extreme but she said that she was so shocked to see some parent's reaction (comparison, envy, etc)that decided to protect the children's self esteem. She says that kids knew when they did good and it would allow her to follow up with kids who did not do so well without having parents there.

I'm with the OP on this one

Sad that they could not help you with the music. Why not, did they not have the money or no time? Most parents would support their kids in music I suppose? Or did you ask for a drum kit



Too bad for you . Your hate will not help you I'm afraid...

Well, yes those videos bother me, but there are 200 other skills that I wish I had but don't: ability to ski double black diamond ski runs, understanding how to design digital electronics, ability to not laugh in yoga, the ability to do yoga, understanding differential equations, ability to converse fluently in about 12 other languages, the ability to play a violin or cello, better verbal communication skills, etc etc etc. Oh and I always wanted to play the bagpipes too but I don't.

Seriously, for the last piece that was assigned by my teacher, I needed to figure out how it was supposed to sound (a modern piece) so yes indeed, the first youtube that came up was an 11-year old in a competition playing it at lightning fast speeds. The negatives from watching this performance were far outweighed by the answers I got to my questions. If I can play it with half the grace that she displayed at 2/3 the tempo I think I should be ecstatic.

I think that the vast piano repertoire should give every learner, no matter what level, the enjoyment of music. That's what it's all about! Regret about the past is a bad thing.

Why envy? There are millions of prodigies on this planet (about 1 billion of them in China) and of those prodigies, only a fraction of a fraction of a percent ever make it to the concert stage.

Plus, the level of virtuosity that you see there can only be achieved at childhood - PERIOD. If you start piano at age 20, even with 8-12 hours of practice daily, you will never achieve this level. You might be able to play Moskowski Etude, but will never play it like her.

My mom would never have been able to afford piano lessons when I was young, let alone a real piano. And I was pretty much the laziest kid you could imagine!

I guess that makes me lucky because I can confidently say I haven't missed out on anything by only starting at age 26

I can even prove to myself how far adults can get if they have no instrument, voice, choir or theory background of any kind. Constant motivation!

Wisdom.

Right on. I find that, at age 57, I have what my arts-educator wife calls "intrinsic motivation." I practice long and hard because I enjoy it. I would not have done that when I was younger. (I mean, even, in my 20s and early 30s.)

I look forward to another 20-30 years of development as a pianist. I sort of wish I had done it earlier, but you know what? I had a piano in my house for decades and didn't play it. So maybe I've only now come to my time of playing piano.

I have often thought that I do not envy anything at all about the lives of prodigy kids.

There is nothing inherently bad about having regrets, it is perfectly normal and everyone has them, and if anyone comes to me and says they have no regrets, then my first assumption is that they are lying or have a complete inability to learn from their own mistakes.

The fact is that it is not the feeling of regret that matters, it is how you respond to that feeling of regret. Is Ebenezer Scrooge's regret when he is being visited by the various Ghosts of Christmas a bad thing? Of course not, that would be absurd. Regret can be quite useful.

Learning from mistakes has nothing to do with regret. Sure some people use feeling of regret to remind them of their mistake and thus not repeat it. However feeling regret is counterproductive since it is after all a negative feeling which doesn't make you feel good. You can still chose not to repeat a mistake, the reason being that you don't want something bad happen to you again. And without the regret you will feel even better!

Achieving that is another thing, though it is very possible and very beneficial.

That's how I look at it too. What's done is done, and it is what it is! The way I look at it - I have 40 more years of piano playing to look forward to. Sure, I missed 27 of those years, but I guess that's why I'm here on the ABF. This is actually one of may "regret posts" that I've seen here. Lots of us regret, but looking back at my childhood, I really had no interest or passion for piano whatsoever...lol.

Trust me Rozina ... everyone over 45 has regrets. And sometimes even under 20. Unless you're Yoda of course.

There is a difference between understanding the idea of regret and dwelling on it. You can learn from the former. The latter merely eats at you.

I just wish we'd had a piano when I was a kid..... Heck, I would've been happy with an accordion. But I can't say I regret not being able to do it, because I didn't have any control over it. & now is better than never.

Yes, I'm torn between being a scratch golfer and a virtuoso pianist. I hate to admit this here, but I think I'd choose to be good golfer and keep my existing piano skills...lol...sorry.

The reality of it is, though, I don't totally suck at piano (but do at golf), so of course I choose piano.

PS-I took Differential Equations about 21 years ago...*gulp*


PPS- I just thought of this, but remember that movie "The Matrix" where he was able to "upload" skills? I would definitely do that for golf, kung fu, and about 200 other skills in a heartbeat, but for piano, I personally enjoy the journey and even the struggle, and consider it an accomplishment when I can "finally play that piece." Piano is one skill that i will not "upload" into my brain Matrix-style...lol

Me, I would just love to be able to schuss down some double blacks at Aspen. Oh, wait, I forgot about that busted ACL that I've never had repaired. Oh well. Back to the piano!

Happily, not true.

So then, based on this, Scrooge still would have learned the error of his ways even if he had not felt any regret? I find that wholly improbable.

That's what I meant! Obsessing on actions not taken/taken in the past is IMO unhealthy and futile (and takes away from valuable piano practice time).

As to CebuKid's suggestion of being able to acquire piano skills Matrix-style, hmmm, intriguing - would I take it or not?

You old man! I only took Diff-E-Q 15 years ago.

Similar to learning piano now, I didn't know what was going on in that class as well. Luckily it was graded on a curve!

Let's see, Diff E - that must have been 1966.

Cathy

OK, I think you win. *bows*

Learning piano matrix style? Definitely! The way I look at it, it would only teach you technique, interpretation of music would still fall on you to learn. So with that kind of learning you could tackle Chopin much sooner and enjoy much more music since you wouldn't be technically limited

I already said that in an earlier post.



Besides, don't you think "obsessing" is overstating it a bit?

That sounds about right, since I'm about 5 years your senior. You an engineer?

I think there's a huge math/piano connection. I'm not a neuro-scientist, but I know lots of folks here have taken lots of math.

Cathy - thumbs up to you for taking diffy q too..

I'm not the oldest poster on here, but I have to have *some* rank! I am the oldest - by, oh, I dunno, 13 or 14 years - musician in my band. Nowhere near the best musician, tho.

Cebukid - had to take it. I was a math major

On topic - I have, lucky for me, never had prodigy envy. Partly because they all seem to play classical (I have seen one jazzer that was terrific) and partly because I'm having too much fun playing.

Cathy

Cathy, I've seen some pretty impressive jazz from Emily Bear on youtube.

Prodigies give me a sort of wistful wave of "what if," but I don't envy them, & I think it can be a positive thing. But maybe it depends on the definition. I think my own definition of a prodigy is someone who shows an inclination for something at a very young age & gets to follow their bliss, & I think that's great. If there are adults in their lives who get all bent out of shape about that and try to market it, that's another thing entirely, and probably unfortunate. (I'm not sure it's ever a good idea to post kids photos or videos publicly on the internet, but that's another issue.)

I buy seasons tickets every year to watch (partly) student performances at a local college that has a professional jazz program, & mostly I'm just awed at the chops some of these kids have managed to acquire by the time they're in their early 20's. I suppose they're prodigies, or were anyway. Getting an early start has prepared them to start learning to make real, creative music that expresses meaning. (Come to think of it, my piano teacher was a prodigy, too.)

Emily Bear is a cutie

Cathy

And she plays Brubeck! Which is probably encouraging - if she can do that with her little hands, then my small hands are no obstacle to anything!!

If regret= "wish I had done something differently", Then we all have them and I agree no point dwelling- because you can make different choices today regardless of yesterday. I am more interested in my own musical development- and how much I am enjoying it today- than what could have been.

Hi:

Envy? I admire these kids. In fact, my whole family was inspired by one of these kids, Tiffany Koo

http://www.youtube.com/user/marvinkoo

as well as Rachel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/yw1935

among many others such as Aimi Kobayashi, Tiffany Poon, as well as some who are not superstars but just having fun like this adorable thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9SLakLUlr0

So all I have to say is thanks for the inspiration to these kids, and their families for putting these vids up because now I am learning piano as an adult, and my child is two years into it at nearly six. I sit with my daughter every night for about 45 minutes, and we usually have a good time. When we don't we have an opportunity to learn about the process of life, that sometimes there is a struggle and if we stick with it, tomorrow will likely be better.

I am not envious but elated that I can go to Aimi Kobayashi's concert.
She is one of the prodigies. I love her playing. With blessing from up above, it looks like I can go (Ahiiii oh! wooooooowwwww - I am speechless!!!!) to NY in the same week she is to perform. My business trip to Phily was moved to the week commencing March 28 and I suggested my business partners to meet in NY to wrap up my visit. Guess what, the Friday is 4/1 and the concert is 4/3 Sunday. Heck, I will stay extra days for this. I am sooooo fortunate. She is playing the Pathetique sonata the same one I am working on, of course in a non-prodigy way LOL.


Aimi Kobayashi

Weill Recital Hall (Seating Chart)
Sunday, April 3, 2011 at 7:30 PM

This concert is part of the Distinctive Debuts series.

Tickets from $36
Program


The Program

Aimi Kobayashi, Piano


BEETHOVEN Sonata No. 8 in C Minor, Op. 13, "Pathétique"
BEETHOVEN Sonata No. 23 in F Minor "Appassionata"
RAVEL Sonatine
CHOPIN Scherzo No. 1
CHOPIN Ballade No. 1 in G Minor, Op. 23

my joy was short lived. it was sold out. i am still asking my company's concierge to get any seat if there is cancellation. I am sooooooooo disappointed.

Too bad it didn't work out. I hope you can still get lucky and get a seat. That would be a memorable experience.

I can't wait until my kid is old enough to sit through something like this. There are quite a few pianists that I long to hear in concert.

Thank you. I will report back here if a happy miracle happens that I wind up with a ticket after all.

I am definitely envious of the support that prodigies, or even talented young people who are not technically "prodigies", receive. I read so many artist bios where the family (or part of it) moved to be closer to the child's teacher or give them more opportunities. My parents would have never considered something like this.

Sadly in the US if a child or young person excels in sports families seem willing to bend over backwards to give them opportunities. Everyone seems to understand that. Of course, schools and other institutions are happy to help because they want the glory and reputation of having a winning sports department.

I would have been happy with just a decent instrument, and parents who understood what practicing was (that it wasn't just playing...they hated listening to me practice).

I know many young people hate the pressure to excel at piano but I would be thrilled if I had the time and space to focus on my piano, and the opportunities many gifted young people have. Instead of shoehorning a few minutes of practice in between work and cooking and cleaning...with a piano that sits right next to the TV. SIGH (self pity)

I read a bio earlier today where the girl started at the age of 2 and at age 4 was performing a Haydn Concerto with an orchestra. Seriously??? Wow.

Sorry for reviving this thread but I'd like to share my opinion.

I don't envy these little children at all. They play the piano very well. So what? The little boy from the video "Imagine being a concert pianist part II" is an amazing pianist. However, all I see in him is a guy who has health and social issues - he doesn't seem to spend enough time playing sports or performing whatever physical activity and seems preoccupied with the piano - exercising 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, and attending a lesson on Sundays. And, as it was already pointed out, only a fraction of a hundredth of a percent of those talented kids make it to the concert hall. So, chances are high that boy will grow up with nothing.

As a kid I never showed interest to exercise on the violin or the piano for longer than an hour a day but my cousin had very ambitious parents who made him go through a similar experience as the boy in the video. He used to have 3 hour warming up before piano lessons and then the lesson itself lasted for other 3 hours. At one moment he got fed up with everything and escaped from his home. Years later, he switched to keyboards and synthesizers (now he is a music producer) - at least he stayed in the field of music.

There is another extreme example concerning one of my father's friends who has exercised on the piano for ~10 hours a day throughout her life - she ended up without having children, her entire life was dedicated to piano playing. She plays Debussy and Satie very well, though. She has even won a competition in performing Debussy.

Emily Bear? Well, she is kind of special. She's got a lot of media attention and is current. Until the next child-prodigy has been discovered. When the media attention shifts from her to someone else she will return to the obscurity and fight to become a performing pianist in the same way the rest of the kids do.

I am sorry about being so negative but I have seen it with my eyes. You exercise 8 hours a day, hone your craft and in the next moment you're asking yourself why you do this because someone else who can't even read sheet music becomes world famous. You know I'm talking about the Beatles.

i do feel envious.. my parents never had the money for any sort of musical instrument. instead of music i had art and fencing pushed on me. i HATED fencing.. my dad made me do it because *he* thought i looked cool doing it. my school music teachers would call home all the time to tell my parents that they should get me into real music lessons (regular music classes in elementary school were all about singing and i had a freakish opera voice back then).. but no.. music lessons just cost more than art and fencing classes.. i would have practiced, i really did love music class, it was my favorite class at school..

so yeah, im envious. im always envious when younger people are better than me.. but then again i also get much more jealous when i see young people healthier than me.. i cant run or jump or dance because of my health.. and it annoys me to no end when people can.. its like they are taunting me..

anyway, you cant pick your parents.. so there is no sense being jealous anyway..

As a child all I wanted to do was play sports football, baseball, and basketball. Had music lessons been thrust upon me I would not be an adult beginner, instead I'd probably avoid the piano like plague. I don't feel envy or regret when I see these child performances, I marvel at them. Don't let them aggravate you! Life's too short play for pleasure, play from the heart, and always keep playing.

After re-reading this thread I stand by my statement and repeat it here for emphasis - shall we all agree then to voluntarily ban or shun all future videos of "child prodigies" as being irrelevant and uninspiring and a needless distraction from the concentration and dedication we require to achieve our pianistic goals as adults?

After all this is the Adult Beginners Forum and there is enough incredible adult talent here to serve as all the motivation and inspiration one could ever possibly need.

Trap

Maybe I'm part of a minority perspective, but I think that there's nothing wrong with viewing child prodigies, like adult virtuosos, as relevant ("We're both playing music!"), inspiring ("So this is how Chopin can sound like..."), and motivating ("Maybe I can attain a fraction of this playing one day!").

TJ/JF, I agree with prettymuch all you have to say here except the "ban" future videos. I don't see any need for bans.

I agree with "shun" to some extent - as a personal option. I don't really want to spend too much time watching them. One or two can be interesting once in a while, but most of the ones I have seen have been very mechanical. Fast, fluid - but mechanical and not emotionally involving.

And while I can be impressed with kids who play well, I'm not at all sure I'd call all or even a significant number of them prodigies.

There are 3 definitions of prodigy - the one that applies to this context is "1.A person, esp. a young one, endowed with exceptional qualities or abilities".
My question is: with more and more and more kids popping up being able to play really well at a really young age, are they really prodigies or just having the (sometimes questionable) "benefit" of a lot of training?

What I agree with 100% is that in the ABF recitals we have a stunning range of performers , styles and skills presented by ADULT learnings - which is extremely meaningful and inspirational for me. I figure if other folks who started at 50+ can make such great strides in 5-10 years, I'm in the right club.

There's nothing "wrong" with it, but it's totally unnecessary - like I said, we have all the adult talent we need - watching these snot-nosed little brats (he said affectionately) is much like rubber-necking at a traffic accident or peaking under the tent at a freak show - after you've seen a couple the novelty wears off and it's time to move on to the real world...

Trap (aka Grumpy Grandpa)

I LOVE to hear and see good music performed by anyone, doesn't matter what age.

I am not jealous of any of them, I just enjoy them and am happy for them that they can do it. I makes me smile.

I play for myself and whatever meager level I'm at makes me smile too.

I make no attempt to analyze their lives, or their parents motives, or their motivations, or anything about them. Why? Because I don't know them and anything anyone comes up with, including me, is just speculation or maybe sour grapes.

So, in my opinion, anyone should feel free to post any links that they feel they'd like to share. If anyone does not want to look at them, then don't, but don't ban anyone from posting any links they like (well, I guess they should at least be music related in some way).

So, post away and please don't feel jealousy, just have fun making music. I think their is a huge percentage of the planet who can't make music at all for various reasons. We are very lucky in the grand scheme of things.

Just play and smile.

Yep. If you feel genuinely jealous of "prodigies," which is often a very loose term that includes just about anyone who plays really well, then .... get a life!

Well, while kidding about the banning, which of course the mods would never do (and which I wouldn't really do if I were a mod), there is much to be said for shunning or boycotting the vids of these prepubescent little munchkins - we've seen them and seen them some more and seen them yet again and again ad infinitum ad nauseum and it's not unique or special or even mildly entertaining anymore - when the world is crawling with piano prodigies there are no longer any piano prodigies - it's now common and ordinary and tiresome - and it's not jealousy at all, which is the easy and wrong explanation - it's irritation and annoyance at the injustice that adult beginners don't get the same attention or recognition, which is much more deserved.

Long live the ABF! Down with precocious little piano playing crumb-crunchers!

Trap (loving grandfather of 18 who'll break their fingers if I ever see them in a "prodigy video" )

I also am not particularly impressed anymore by the young age of these kids. My comment was that I love to see music performed well by anyone (well, almost anyone) and don't care about their age so I welcome links to any good performance.

I love the ABF recital entries by the way and have participated a few times. Pretty darn impressing and fun to listen to.