Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Hailun, anyone?

Hello again Turandot,

To address some of your comments and questions:

I am sure you have up-to-date- information concerning your personal business just as I have up-to-date information concerning Steigerman’s. It is best for others to not make statements of fact about issues which they are not close to and of course if speculating, then to say so. In addition, I feel that the addition of Renner hammers are a significant upgrade however, to be fair, I believe that other high-quality hammers such as Abel might perform just as well.

I can’t say that there is anyone to blame. I do know that when I worked for Young Chang for many years, it was very hard to sell pianos to consumers which said “Young Chang” on the fallboard, no matter the quality or the price. I have worked many sales and heard the comment “I wouldn’t have “Young Chang” in my living room” countless times. I have heard the same of Samick, Hsinghai, Hyundai and others to name a few. Manufacturers and distributors are just reacting to what consumers demand I believe. Initially Yamaha had a similar problem. It took them many years to develop their name into acceptance. It is an accomplishment which is very hard to duplicate, no matter how earnest the intention.

Our using European components in the construction of Steigerman "Premium" pianos are not just for the "sizzle" but we feel that the addition of some of these featurs are truly performance upgrades.

I can’t speak for all of Wendl & Lung’s features but the initial scale and design of the pianos are the same. We were allowed to use pianos in their Austrian showroom for designing the Renner action models we produce.

The only pianos you will see from the Hailun factory in North America currently will be either from Hailun distribution or from Steigerman.

After all this, I hope that you too are impressed with pianos from the Hailun factory as some of the rest of us. My feeling is that our "Premium" pianos are the best available from any country at or near their price points.

That is wrong.

There is no person named "Mr. Hailun" running the Hailun piano factory in Ningbo. (Dino can verify.)

Really? Could someone ellaborate?

A great analysis, Dino.

I was the oldest Yamaha dealership in the USA (1961-1998). It took them over 15 years to gain acceptance. People simply didn't want guests to see "Yamaha" on their piano, not matter how well it performed.

Ax

The HailunUSA website names Hailun Chen as the owner.

Partial quote:
“Our Chairman, Mr. Hailun Chen, embodies a truly entrepreneurial spirit and, at the same time, embraces traditional values,” said Ms. Perry. “His vision clearly reflects this. Ningbo is traditionally viewed as the birthplace of the first piano builder in China. Mr. Chen wants Ningbo to also be known as the home of the best piano built in China.”

The Owner of the Hailun factory is Mr. Chen Hailun. Mr. Chen’s business card reads:

“Chen Hailun”
“Chairman Director”

In all fairness to Terry; as is customary in China, one’s last name comes first on business cards. If one was not familiar with Chinese customs or had not been formally introduced to someone, going by a business card for example, would be confusing.

Really is there no Mr Hailun?

Then Wendl & Lung must be lieing when showing pictures of Mr Chen Hailun ( click Wendl & Lung History - 1990:4th picture form right): http://www.wendl-lung.com/Website/English/fs_wendllung.htm

Or the Swiss W&L distrubutor must then be wrong also (3rd and 4th picture): http://www.scanavini.ch/galerie.htm

schwammerl.

This seems strange to me because W&L Vienna only carries two grand pianos: the 161 & 178. Why should they have had a 151 (5'-0") available at their premisses? (unless they would plan to integrate it into their product line in the near future)

If we believe Peter Veletzky (W&L) the 115 (45 in. = 115 cm) upright should be an original W&L design (by Veltzky himself) which even excisted before W&L set up the collaboration with Hailun. I must quote him in German from the forum on VioWorld-Klassik, where in 2005 he intered into a rather fierce discussion on Chinese pianos:
; http://www.vioworld-klassik.de/go.php?url=http://www.vioworld-klassik.de/forum/showrubs.php?mode=newest&rid=&startpage=374&r_name=Neueinsteiger
I cannot find a Hailun 115 upright neighter on the Hailun China website nor on the U.S. site.

Apparently Wendl & Lung piano are available as such in North America (U.S.): http://www.pianofortechicago.com/

schwammmerl.

Schwammerl,

I do not think anyone was lying as you suggest. That is a rather strong accusation to make. I think that they were merley mistaken as to what they printed on their websites. If you read my earlier post, you will understand why that may have been.


You are correct in that the only pianos W & L handle are the larger grands. We never ended up ordering any 151’s with Renner actions ourselves. We decided the cost was too much to add at that price point. The Renner engineers felt that with the action drawings and specifications of all three models from the factory, and physically measuring the 161 and the 178, they could also then come up with an action to accurately fit the 151 should we ever decide to order any for that model.


Yes, it is my understanding that the 115 model was Peter’s design. I do not understand your point however. The design is not exclusive to Wendle & Lung if that was your question.

A couple of years ago, give or take, this dealer did buy some Wendl & Lung pianos I am told but W & L is no longer distributing in the U.S. My statement concerning current distribution is accurate. Additionally, I do not believe that pianos from the Hailun factory which were made in 2005 accurately reflect the quality of the products presently being manufactured there.

I hope this answers your questions.

First, thank you to those who have posted here. You have supplied a wealth of factual information. I just hope I can remember it longer than fifteen minutes.

I wanted to follow up on one point.

from Steve Cohen
from Dino Flacco
An important question is whether the consumers who didn't want Young Chang or Yamaha in their house were satisfied to have the instrument in question knowing that it was made in Japan or Korea (in these two cases), and only wanted that others not notice the origin of their piano on the fallboard.

If all these consumers wanted was to hide the Asian origin of the instrument while being happy to have said instrument, then current Asian piano manufacturers could simply offer the application of a stencil of their house-brand German name as an optional upgrade and recoup the cost of the name acquisition from the consumers who wanted to pay for it. This would be similar to a motor vehicle vanity plate. Those with specific naming needs would pay to address those needs. The company could even offer a personalized stencil for the truly egocontric.

If, on the other hand, individuals do not want to have a Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indonesian etc. piano in their home at all, and all of the stencil branding is an attempt to get around the issue, then it's a far different matter.

If you look at the information on the web supplied by piano manufacturers, retrofitters and distributors who offer their wares by carrying on the tradition of old piano manufacturers who went out of business decades ago (and that is as kind a way of stating the practice as I can think of), you find an untold wealth of information about the origin and history of the defunct company, often with photographs and testimonials culled from ancient industry publications. The need to buttress the acquired names with all of this completely irrelevant historical material would suggest that there is much more in play here than simply giving the Western market a name (or names) that is (are) more socially acceptable. Rather, it seems like information is being supplied that attempts to enhance the image of the name-acquiring company and in some cases to reassure the buyer that the company products have been in the marketplace forever and that the consumer can buy with confidence. Even if some would argue that is not the intent, that is certainly the result.

I'm not trying to point a finger at any particular company. There's enough of this "stuff" out there to fill a thick volume of European piano family history. It would be completely unfair to single out any company. Also, it would probably be premature to applaud a company that does not engage in this practice. That company has either already made its name the old fashioned way or has just chosen a different marketing strategy for its own reasons. It may stand on higher ethical ground, but that's not for sure, and things could change quickly.

Turnadot,

In my experience most shoppers didn't want the name to show, rather than objecting to the country of manufacture.

I too object to the "false history" practice of many manufacturers. It is particularly obvious in soundboard decals. Many brands, including companies I have represented both at retail and thru consulting, put decal on soundboards tauting "Winner World Piano Exposition, 1886", when the scale design that actually won had been abandoned years ago. The same goes for their history. If the design is dissimilar, then tauting the history is misleading.

For example, Young Chang recently re-labeled their Pramberger Series "Weber". Their website tauts Albert Weber's history. I disagree with this marketing methodology. I do not want to slam YC or single them out. MANY manufactures use this tactic. (In fact, YC is careful to word the text as "out of the tradition of" or similar wording.

It is also true of the way dealerships are represented. A major chain in my market claims a founding in 1912. It was purchased by a buyer completely unrealted to the founders in about 1975!

When one changes scale designs, or in the case of dealerships changes owner-families, the history of the oruiginal doesn't go with the sale. It follows the design or, in the case of dealerships, the family of the founder(s).

You're right. I screwed up.
My apology to Mr. Wilson and Mr. Chen.

Apology accepted. I was formally introduced to him at NAMM, and was very impressed with his passion, pianos, and business plan.

Bottom line the piano is very impressive.

Bottom line, Chinese pianos have arrived.

Especially said pianos above.....

I announced this months ago when mentioning the new Steigerman Premium series - and next getting raked over the coals here.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/15212.html#000003

[Even received a stern warning from Frank's headoffice.... ]

Good'ol Norbert who saw the light some 10 years ago and next being accused of hyping this new name out there called "Estonia" - was at it again.....

But more's to come.

This time, won't tell.

Norbert

Mr. Flacco

Of course I did not mean anyone was lying. This statement was just ironically meant as nobody could ever imagine that on two different websites pictures were posted with the name of Mr. Chen Hailun or Hailun Chen under it, and that the person would not excist. Sorry you misunderstood.

I was just a bit puzzeled because the statement Peter Veletzky once made on a German forum was quite firm: "Modell 115 would never be on the market with another name (W&L)"
see: http://www.vioworld-klassik.de/go.php?url=http://www.vioworld-klassik.de/forum/showrubs.php?mode=newest&rid=&startpage=374&r_name=Neueinsteiger
But this is not an issue; business strategies may change over time.

schwammerl.

I don't think statements by a distributor of any one manufacturer make sense to be counter-checked for consistency by those made by others on different continents.

Anybody who carefully compares websites by manufacturers on a worldwide basis, might come across certain models or description of them not entirely identical or consistent on the varying sites.

In Europe for example, nobody claims to have their pianos "made or seasoned for the European continent only"....which certainly is not to discourage buyers for such make to buy it on the other side of the ocean anyways .....

If you happen to look at the 115 Wendl&Lung model in Europe, let the dealer demonstrate it to you - then decide yourself if it is suitable for you.

Wishing you the best for your search!


Norbert

Norbert, what distributor are you referring to? Just to learn something, did you mean Wendl & Lung Vienna (P. Veletzky) and is your definition of W&L, a distributor?

How would you define Steigerman Music Corp. If I look at "the company" on their website they don't give me the impression of seeing themselves as merely a distributor, but I could be wrong.
or schwammerl.

Hello Schwammerl

That's really the issue. And if you industry pros can be confused about it or squabble about it, think of the consumer's bewilderment. Some piano companies seem to be little more than retrofitters who have the factory's permission to mate some European upgrade part to a stock Chinese model. Their exclusivity (if any) may be limited to just the application of that one upgrade.

In most industries retrofitted products appear after the stock model is in use. It seems with pianos that the opposite can be true. Thus Wendl and Lung and Steigerman are in the western marketplace before the stock Hailun appears.

Turandot

You might be right with your statement. But if you would consider me as an industry pro, then you get it wrong (check my profile please). I am not and was never involved in the piano business but just an ordinary forum member piano owner!

In fact I asked the question just to find out/to learn what the "real pros" have to say about it.

schwammerl.

schwammerl:

As an owner of a nice Wendl&Lung grand yourself, I am surprised you keep torturing yourself with these kind of questions.

Ever having bought anything 'German' these days and then finding out some 10 odd companies from around the globe were involved building the thing?

Talked to and shook hands with everybody involved in the making and distributing of your last Braun, Phillips or Remington shaver in the past?

Please don't forget that not the whole world is like old Europe [used to be...] where companies often go back 100's of years and are still sometimes owned by the original, founding families.....

It's my understanding you are actually very happy with the piano you own and made your decision at time of purchase having had many other choices available to you as well - I believe you also looked at Schimmels at the time ??

So, why now all these questions?

Everybody knows,Hailun is the maker of both Wendl & Lung in Europe and Steigerman Premium pianos in North America: both companies act as their own importers/distributors and have their own specifications and/or exclusive features for their pianos and for their own markets.

For us as dealers the by far most important concern is the same as 99% of our customers have: a great piano offered at great price and being backed 100% by its company.

If one nees "more" [or 'less'... ] - one can always look of course elsewhere...it's a free world.

It seems, you haven't yourself.

Norbert