|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
79 members (AaronSF, apianostudent, beeboss, brdwyguy, benkeys, Abdulrohmanoman, accordeur, 19 invisible),
2,267
guests, and
433
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 833
500 Post Club Member
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 833 |
I'm learning the Polonaise Op. 53. The notes are actually surprisingly easy--a matter of hours I can play through it sounding reasonable. But there are lot of lazy fingerings I'll need to change to make phrasing come out better. And then... there's the issue of pedal. I'm using this edition, which according to imslp is the Paderewski Edition: Chopin Op. 53, Paderewski Edition, PDF File Could somebody who actually has a Paderewski edition verify that it is indeed that edition? Pedaling is so... weird. I thought Paderewski editions are Urtext. Once verified, I'll probably start a new thread asking about how to interpret the music and tackle specific technical difficulties.
Last edited by Lingyis; 03/04/11 04:09 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 137
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 137 |
I would pay attention to the pedaling indicated as Paderewski is generally a good source for Chopin in my opinion. That said, if you're playing this piece it'd prolly be a good idea to get a copy of a modern Urtext like PWM or Wiener (with Ekier as the editor) from a university music library and make a photocopy to compare. Just make sure you don't sell the damn thing and I don't think you'll break any laws.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 635
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 635 |
urtext and paderewski, i think are completely different. i presume you are talking about the g henle urtext, the dark blue cover?
i heard the original sources where henle and the other guy went to get the chopin manuscript were different to each other
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453 |
urtext and paderewski, i think are completely different. They are... It is just that among editors Paderewski is considered by many the best for Chopin.
Music is my best friend.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 635
500 Post Club Member
|
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 635 |
i know. many quite prestigious chopin competitions actually tell the contestants to use it.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,342
1000 Post Club Member
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,342 |
I second what jonnyboy said. Try to get hold of PWM (National Edition), Wiener (with Ekier as the editor) or even Henle to compare. Paderewski has been known to take many liberties in Chopin's text and while it was an often recommended edition of Chopin's works a while back, it is no longer a number one. While good, I believe it should be compared to other sources, that are based on critical approach and complete sources, if you are seriously working on a piece.
M.
Mateusz Papiernik https://maticomp.net"One man can make a difference" - Wilton Knight Kawai CN21 (digital), Henryk Yamayuri Kawai NX-40 (grand)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 833
500 Post Club Member
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 833 |
great, thanks for these comments. i feel more "updated" now.
i listened to many performers last night, from rafalz and bunin to horowitz and rubinstein, and lots in between. almost all of them have their own different ways of pedeling and phrasing. some pedal over staccatos, some ignore slurs and play them staccato.
which made me wonder: is it so important to follow even an urtext edition? in the masterclass thread, the lady said "only 1% of the music is in the score", and i wonder if this is such an example.
Last edited by Lingyis; 03/04/11 04:21 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,909
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,909 |
Remember that - in a true Urtext edition (of Chopin), only what Chopin wrote - depending on which source is used, of course - will be printed - Chopin did not indicate pedal marks throughout his compositions; that doesn't mean that one stops using the pedal when there are no longer pedal indications - use of the damper pedal varies from piano to piano and from room to room, depending on the acoustics; therefore Urtext and editors' editions have to be taken as suggestions only, not gospel, where pedal is concerned.
Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 833
500 Post Club Member
|
OP
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 833 |
Chopin did not indicate pedal markings? But I also read that Chopin was very specific about his pedal markings...
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,909
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,909 |
Chopin did not indicate pedal markings? But I also read that Chopin was very specific about his pedal markings... No, that's not quite true. "In many of his works Chopin has left detailed pedal indications. In many others, however, he has not. the editor of the Paderewski Edition suggests that 'those passage in which Chopin has not marked the pedalling are generally explained by the fact that the pedalling required is very simple [i.e. would be suggested by obvious changes of harmony]; or on the contrary that it is so subtle as to be too complicated, if not impossible to indicate.' Through numerous accounts we know that Chopin's pedalling was one of the most individual and entrancing characteristics of his playing." [1] Bailie goes on to explain that the sustain of the piano of Chopin's day was considerably different from that of the modern grand, and, faithfully observing Chopin's pedal marks - where they are indicated - will result in a blurry wash of sound on a modern piano that is far from characteristic of Chopin's intent. She adds that to re-create the pedalling often indicated in Chopin's scores requires - on a modern grand - a complete understanding and control of 'half-pedalling,' where Chopin may simply indicate pedaling. I will add, once again, that the sensitive pianist also has to take into account the instrument and the room in which the instrument is being played. Some pianos are much more resonant than others; some rooms are much more 'live' than others and since these both affect the sound perceived they must be taken into account when the damper pedal is used. [1] Bailie, pp. 39-40 Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,806
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 36,806 |
in the masterclass thread, the lady said "only 1% of the music is in the score", and i wonder if this is such an example.
That's just an expression. I doubt it was meant literally.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,340
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,340 |
any pianist who relies on his ' urtext' to know how to use the pedal is a formalist.
Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,405
Posts3,349,434
Members111,637
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|