Hi All,

I'm new to pianos and [think] I have narrowed my decision down to two digital pianos but can't decide between the two. These two are the Casio PX830 and the Roland F110. I can't play and haven't had any lessons yet and so can only push down the keys in a chord and both feel very easy to do this on...

Listening to the shop salesmen of each store play their respective examples... I like the sound of both very much.

I'm wanting to learn to play jazz piano, perhaps a little pop such as Buble,callum, Coldplay and not classical or rock. I can find each of the above for around £800 which really is my cealing for price and space is quite tight as well... if space and funds weren't as tight id buy a Kawai cn33 as i heared it in store the other day and was blown away by it... but alas life is a compromise! So your ehlp regardig the above two choices would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Ed.

Try the digital forum here.

If you are a beginner and you like the PX830, then you will like the PX130. It's basically the same thing, same keys but cheaper.

I think the number one feature you need is a quality weighted key action. However at your price point you are looking at a step down from the better key actions. But you figure that people change out their digital pianos like they do computers. Don't over spend on the first one. Al you need to decent weighted key action. The sound and everything else is secodary to that.

A good piano keyboard has mass in the hammers that will absorb quite a bit of force from your fingers so you can play lightly or hit the keys a lot harder. Light is not what you want, you want a wide dynamic range and that usually means some weight in the keys.

I agree with the above poster. Try which one that sounds better to you. Personally I picked Px-130, it just sounds more realistic in my amateurish opinion.

Thanks for your help in this. I have another question though... I've just seen a website that's recommending pianos based on the skill of the player which seems fair enough to me... and it says that the likes of the PX130 through and those i've mentioned in my original post are good for students with the grades 1-5 but are 'not sophisticated enough for Grade 6 upwards'. My questions regarding this are:

1 - what level of skill does grade 6 represent before the suggested piano's hamper learning/skill development

2 - for a complete novice like me, how long would it be expected for an enthusiast to reach grade 6? I don't want to find I'm going to outgrow the piano after 12 months...

thanks agai
Ed.

Hello all,

I was considering the F110 a while ago. After 30 minutes of playing w/ headphones it was ruled out from my list.
Reasons are two fold:
- the action is too light (for me),
- the piano samples are very inhomogenous (both horizontally and vertically). In other words timbre changes are very audible when playing a note from ppp->fff (vertical), and also when walking up from low notes up to the higher ones (horizontal).
In both cases it evident that the sample set is just not 'rounded' by any means, and notes and timbre changes were always sticking out here and there as one plays the piano.

Not sure about the casio but it can hardly be worse than the F110.

If your budget is 800£, which is about 1.250$ (950 Euros), there is actually no reason to go with an entry level DP, specially if you are worried to be soon unsatisfied.
I would suggest to consider, at least for Yamaha, the P-155.

A.

Yes I think you can get a Yamaha P155 for just over £900 in the UK...Yamahas are great for jazz. It's still a great little piano the P155...with that kind of budget it's what I'd go for.

I'm partial to the Roland sound and feel, and although the Casios are good, we've had lots of reports of key issues here.

Any weighted-key digital piano, even a very inexpensive one in the $500 (US) price range, is an emulation of a grand piano, and you can play anything on it, from rock to concertos--and you cannot outgrow it, as you can't outgrow a grand piano. I use a $600 Williams Overture digital. This is one of the cheapest digital consoles around and it's okay for any playing, from jazz improvisation to the biggest concertos.

Both the digital pianos you mentioned would be fine, but you could go lower than 800 gbp and still get a good digital. Of course, a more expensive dp like a cn 33 would be better: more sophisticated sound chips, smoother action, etc. But it's not necessary to spend that much. Plus, these pianos are being demonstrated by a professional salesman, and he will showcase the higher priced pianos by what he plays on them, etc. Don't bite for the sales pitch; that's all it is. You can play anything on a $500 dp that you can play on a $100,000 concert grand.

In theory you might be right. Even on a cheap $500 digital could be played the biggest concertos...but only by an already properly trained pianist on right instruments and not by a beginner. You might say and as i've seen you already said on other topics that a beginner that cant play a cheap digital cant also play a $100000 grand. Again, tehnically speaking, you are correct; but to really help the folks who ask for help on the forum, you should also expose the empty side of the glass. That is, the cheaper the instrument is, the faultier the action and sound is, hence the more will the player have to COMPENSATE WITH HIS SKILL in order to get a proper sounding piece right. An experienced pianist has two asserts that help him in the matter of overcoming poor instruments; as follows: a good mental play of the music he wants to get out of the instrument and some very trained fingers. A beginner like me with poor fingers and unformed musical ear facing an instrument with poor action and bad sounding, its just discouraged to pursue piano playing. And the analogy could extend to any other instrument. I played guitar for 2 years. First on a crappy guitar. Then when i bought a better one, the learning process was so much easyier...

So, given that the folks who ask around for advice are mostly beginners, you're advice highly misleads them, and if followed, will only discourage them to pursue piano playing. The statements you keep repeating about the ability to play even the biggest concertos on cheap digitals will only be of some help to people who already are very good pianists, and again i say, can compensate with their skill the shortcomings of a cheap digital.

Example: I'm a beginner, only playing for 6 months or so; few days ago i tested a no name italian weighted keyboard. While its true you could get some kind of melody out of it, it played like crap and sounded even crappier. There's no way a beginner can be really helped in his journey by such an awfull instrument. A beginner should have an instrument that would invite him to play and not viceversa. The learning process is already difficult enough....why make it even harder? There is no common sense in this.



So my advice is also this. Get the most expensive DP you can afford!

Very well said Ovidiu M!



I wholeheartedly agree!

Cheers,
James
x

Well I went back to a music shop yesterday and had a tinkle on the keys [volume down so i wouldn't scare away customers with an amass of noise] so I could just guage the feel of the Roland, Yamaha and Casio... for want of a better phrase the Roland's keys felt somewhat loose [almost like the key wanted to fall for the first part of its travel and then get resistance build up], the Casio a bit more sturdy/solid [more resistance, less fall throughout the travel of the key] and the Yamaha a bit more solid/stiff throughout the whole range of the keys travel [perhaps a bit too stiff for my liking]. So in order of preference based on feel I preferred the Casio, Roland then Yamaha. The assistant at the shop said that feel is based entirely on preference and that there really is no right or wrong to this and so I should choose the one I preferred most. Though having said that she also said to steer clear of the Casio because teachers don't like them... so on the one hand, chose the one I prefer but on the other don't chose it because teachers won't like it?!

Listening to the sound of all of them, my preference was most definitely for the Roland. On tone, the shop assistant said that as my desire is to learn to play jazz piano, she would recommend the Roland's tone, but if I wanted to learn to play Classical she said she would recommend the Yamaha's tone. I thought this was interesting...

One thing she did ask me and then did show me, which I had never considered before and which I found very helpful was 'do you want to learn to read music and play from music sheets or just by ear?' As I considered reading music must be an inherent part of the skill in playing music, I said 'read music'. With this she then demonstrated why she wouldn't buy the F110... because the pages from a sheet music book kept on wanting to flip over the keyboard interrupting her fingers... this is why she said she would advise on a cabinet style piano in my price range rather than a trendy style cabinet. Good advice I thought!

One spanner to throw into the mix though.... regarding touch and tone, does anyone know how the CL35 compares with the Casio and Roland mentioned along with the Yamaha CLP320? I ask as the best DP I've heared to date is the CN33 from Kawai but it's out of my price range. So I'm wondering about the CL35 as the Kawai I saw and listened to seemed to be built to a very high standard but I'm understanding that the action and the sampling of the CL is different to the CN series.

thanks all!
Ed.

On another note... is there an advantage of paying more to buy from a physical store over an above paying less on the internet? If you buy from the internet and something unfortunate happens with the DP... what then?

I can play (badly) on my 330 various pieces that are in the sort of range of grade 6-diploma and the limiting factor is me, not the keyboard.
Grade 6 upwards for practising for exam purposes you would probably want the three pedal system (which I think the 830 has anyway)

How long it takes you to get to grade 6 will depend on how much work you do. A rough rule of thumb for school children is about a grade per year.
Grades 6-8 are considered to be at the same sort of level as A-levels (on university applications grades 6-8 do provide some UCAS points).

Comparing my 330 with the pianos in the university main practice rooms I'd say it has a better action than all the uprights and one of the three grands. (But then those pianos do take a fair hammering)

thank you