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#1634655 - 03/06/11 05:02 AM To Roland FP-7F owners
VivatRudolphus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
I would like to ask the FP-7F owners on this forum about two major issues of this piano I've been reading about, and which are holding me back from finally buying it.
I've been reading basically everything on this forum about the FP-7F, but I'd like some more "direct" opinions and impressions.

First, what's your experience with the "note stealing" (polyphony) issue with SuperNatural patches? I've read it's an FP-7F problem too, since it shares the same processor as the RD700-NX, and I am quite worried about this issue and about how likely it would happen while playing.

The second issue I'd like to receive some feedback from owners is the key wear. Did they finally fix the problem on ivory feel? How are your keys?

If you want to add anything about your experience with the piano it would be most appreciated, thanks in advance. smile
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Roland FP-7F

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#1634657 - 03/06/11 05:07 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
I've read it's an FP-7F problem too, since it shares the same processor as the RD700-NX...


Do you have a source for this please?

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1634662 - 03/06/11 05:27 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Kawai James]
VivatRudolphus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
I've read it's an FP-7F problem too, since it shares the same processor as the RD700-NX...


Do you have a source for this please?

Kind regards,
James
x


I remember reading it somewhere (I've been reading a lot of forums, youtube comments, etc) but I have no verifiable source, I'm sorry.
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1634690 - 03/06/11 06:52 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Okay thanks.

While there are certainly some incredibly knowledgeable folks contributing to the various keyboard/digital piano forums, I believe it's important to take everything that is read with a pinch of salt - especially when there are often no sources to back-up any of the claims that are made.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1634713 - 03/06/11 07:39 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
mitzysman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 290
I'm a roland fan. I have a 80's RD piano (will never sell) and had a fp-2 for many years. I spent at least an hour playing the fp-7f the other night and I didn't care for the action or keys at all. The keys were slippery to me and I didn't like the fact that they were not bright white. I thought the sounds were dull in the base end. The keys felt bottomed out to me. I had a FP-2 for many years and it was nicer action. I prefer the Yamaha p-155 action. It's a little heavy but felt more controllable to me. If you like the roland actions I would suggest the regular FP-7. It was simalar but at least looked normal and you can get one for about 400 less. With all the hype about the 7f - I almost bought one online site unseen - BOY i'm glad I didn't - I would not have liked it. I think if I went roland right now I would go the fp-4 b/c i like that action. I guess the bottom line is... don't listen to me - try one out - don't get one site unseen.
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Yamaha P-250 | Galaxy II Pianos | Galaxy Vintage D | The GIANT

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#1634755 - 03/06/11 10:05 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: mitzysman]
VivatRudolphus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
mitzysman, I have tried the FP7F and I found its action quite good, in comparison to many others I have tried and felt somewhat "spongy". Maybe they feel heavier because of this?
I'm a complete newbie to digital pianos so maybe my opinion was already biased towards the FP7F when I tried other actions (having read the forums beforehand). Unfortunately I couldn't try any Kawai (MP6 most notably) so I can't compare it to those other DPs I may be interested in.
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1634767 - 03/06/11 10:40 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: California
1. No note stealing

2. Keys feel fantastic

Love the piano more than the day it came. I haven't even messed around with all the features because I'm so pleased with the SN Grand Piano voice.

With the gorgeous design of the music stand (transparent) and the stand (sleek) it's kind of a cross between a stage and home piano, because it doesn't LOOK like a slap, nor does it attempt to look like a "real" piano. Like the V, it's appearance is unique.

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#1634779 - 03/06/11 10:53 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Nikalette Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: California
One thing that's different on the FP7F is that once turned on, it takes about 5 seconds for sound to be produced from the keys.

That was a new one for me.

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#1634818 - 03/06/11 11:52 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Nikalette]
VivatRudolphus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
1. No note stealing

2. Keys feel fantastic

Love the piano more than the day it came. I haven't even messed around with all the features because I'm so pleased with the SN Grand Piano voice.

With the gorgeous design of the music stand (transparent) and the stand (sleek) it's kind of a cross between a stage and home piano, because it doesn't LOOK like a slap, nor does it attempt to look like a "real" piano. Like the V, it's appearance is unique.

Originally Posted By: Nikalette
One thing that's different on the FP7F is that once turned on, it takes about 5 seconds for sound to be produced from the keys.

That was a new one for me.


Thanks for your impressions, can I ask a couple more things? Those are not deal breakers but something I'm interested in:

1. Can the rotary effect on organs be controlled via a pedal?
2. What's your opinion regarding the electric piano? Does it have a convincing growl like the rhodes? I have not found any demo of this on youtube..
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1634830 - 03/06/11 12:14 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Nikalette]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4369
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
1. No note stealing

Have you tried playing back a WAV or MP3 file while playing several notes together quickly and repeatedly? I can get our NX to do the "decay stealing" thing with as few as 3 notes when playing back an MP3 - not a deal breaker but it doesn't make me particularly happy.

Originally Posted By: Nikalette
One thing that's different on the FP7F is that once turned on, it takes about 5 seconds for sound to be produced from the keys.

That was a new one for me.

The OS has to boot - a fact of modern life it seems. Almost no one does anything in assembly anymore. Which is probably why the NX has the "decay stealing" issue in the first place, come to think of it.
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#1634877 - 03/06/11 01:33 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: dewster]
VivatRudolphus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
1. No note stealing

Have you tried playing back a WAV or MP3 file while playing several notes together quickly and repeatedly? I can get our NX to do the "decay stealing" thing with as few as 3 notes when playing back an MP3 - not a deal breaker but it doesn't make me particularly happy.


Please, if any owner of the FP7F could do this test, I'd be most grateful.

I'd hate to spend 1800€ only to discover about the polyphony issue later.. Even though I guess one could use an mp3 player connected to the line-in of the piano to play over a backing track I guess.
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1635036 - 03/06/11 04:50 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
Unfortunately I couldn't try any Kawai (MP6 most notably) so I can't compare it to those other DPs I may be interested in.


VivatRudolphus, may I ask why not? Kawai instruments are distributed in Italy by Furcht Piano, Milan. For more information, please visit the following websites:

http://www.furcht.it
http://www.kawai.it

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1635063 - 03/06/11 05:30 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Kawai James]
VivatRudolphus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
Unfortunately I couldn't try any Kawai (MP6 most notably) so I can't compare it to those other DPs I may be interested in.


VivatRudolphus, may I ask why not?


The store I went to (in Rome - and it's quite a big store), had plenty of Kawai acoustics but only an MP8 (which I didn't try because I was not considering Kawai yet). I was in Rome because of other reasons and could try many DPs, something it would have not been possible where I live. While there's a Kawai showroom near my town, they only sell acoustic pianos.
There's a very traditional approach to piano, especially here in the south of Italy, so it's hard to find DPs, and even more DPs by "less known" constructors available for testing. frown

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Kawai instruments are distributed in Italy by Furcht Piano, Milan. For more information, please visit the following websites:

http://www.furcht.it
http://www.kawai.it/

Kind regards,
James
x


Thanks for the links, I've checked those but the MP6 is not listed among the models they import in Italy. And the showroom locator actually locates one near my town, but as I said they only sell acoustics.
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1635121 - 03/06/11 06:17 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
VivatRudolphus,

Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
Thanks for the links, I've checked those but the MP6 is not listed among the models they import in Italy.


As far as I am aware, Furcht Piano will be distributing the MP6 throughout Italy. Even though this instrument is not currently listed on their websites, I would still recommend contacting the company to request further information.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#1635429 - 03/07/11 05:10 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
JHbackingtracks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
1. No note stealing

Have you tried playing back a WAV or MP3 file while playing several notes together quickly and repeatedly? I can get our NX to do the "decay stealing" thing with as few as 3 notes when playing back an MP3 - not a deal breaker but it doesn't make me particularly happy.


Please, if any owner of the FP7F could do this test, I'd be most grateful.

I'd hate to spend 1800€ only to discover about the polyphony issue later.. Even though I guess one could use an mp3 player connected to the line-in of the piano to play over a backing track I guess.


That is a VERY good question, and is a deal breaker for me. frown

You may have seen my very annoyed posts about the note stealing/cut off issue with the NX, I'm still very annoyed it sounds like I'm going to have to downgrade to the FP (and will be loosing countless features) but the main thing i'm 'in' it for, is to have a very good sounding piano (e.g the SN) and the ability to play back backing tracks.

I wish I could say, if the worst happens I'll just plug an mp3 player in, but I need to be able to trigger the tracks from a key or pedal etc. (I was using a pedal on the NX) but I like the sound of this audio key.

People I've spoke to have said the processor in the FP7F can actually handle the SN pianos and we don't get the cut offs (which is great news) but no one has commented on the audio playback.... I was reading the manual, and it 'warns' you polophny may be reduced when playing back audio. There's a difference between it being reduced, and what it does now on the NX (just 'cutting' every note) so if it only reduces a few notes it might not be the biggest issue of the world.

I plan (in the next few weeks) to go and test one out, and I will test EVERYTHING to make sure this time when i don't get home I discover loads of issues like I did with the NX. It'll take me a while to get used to not having a lot of the NX features if I do end up getting it, and it's not as nice looking as the NX, but if it does the job and everything works I think I can justify downgrading to it. smile

Also, by the way, I was reading the online manual of the FP7F, and it seems you can control the organ rotary effect by a foot pedal (it's a shame we won't get a mod/pitch wheel) however I couldn't find ANYWHERE in the manual how to actually assign it, hopefully it'll be easy enough to figure out like on the NX. But it does say it can be done smile

I'll let you know how I get on....

Thanks,
James
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J.T.Harrison

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#1635455 - 03/07/11 07:29 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
VivatRudolphus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
I plan (in the next few weeks) to go and test one out, and I will test EVERYTHING to make sure this time when i don't get home I discover loads of issues like I did with the NX.

I'll let you know how I get on....


I'd appreciate it because unfortunately I can't do those tests myself since I had the possibility to test the FP7F only once and for a few minutes.

On a side note, I found a review by some guy from Netherlands on youtube. It's not in english though. smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMLueern3lM
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1635598 - 03/07/11 11:38 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
JHbackingtracks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
I plan (in the next few weeks) to go and test one out, and I will test EVERYTHING to make sure this time when i don't get home I discover loads of issues like I did with the NX.

I'll let you know how I get on....


I'd appreciate it because unfortunately I can't do those tests myself since I had the possibility to test the FP7F only once and for a few minutes.

On a side note, I found a review by some guy from Netherlands on youtube. It's not in english though. smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMLueern3lM


No problem - I'll be sure to test it out. (And EVERYTHING!) It's ridiculous that we actually HAVE to test it out to make sure there's not a problem... apart from it being Roland, with the money we're paying, there just should not be any issues like this.

It's bad enough having to downgrade from the NX after being used to it for the past 3 months, the whole point in the downgrade is so this problem doesn't occur.... so I really hope it doesn't happen... as there's nothing else out there in this price range that has brilliant piano sounds, and audio playback (that can be triggered from keys or pedals etc)

I have seen that video before! Thanks for sending it... I've been trying to watch as many as I can, but there's not many out there with the FP7F.

As soon as I know more, I will let you know everything, but as you can imagine I'm a very annoyed/frustrated Roland customer after everything I've been through the past 3 months (especially with the false hope of them saying the NX could be fixed) so I really hope there's no issues with the FP.
_________________________
J.T.Harrison

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#1635844 - 03/07/11 04:35 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
...there's nothing else out there in this price range that has brilliant piano sounds, and audio playback


The Yamaha CP50 and Kawai MP6 both feature audio playback from USB, high quality piano sounds, and the ability to adjust/control parameters in real-time. Both instruments can be purchased for less than an FP-7F.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1635901 - 03/07/11 05:54 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Kawai James]
JHbackingtracks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Thanks James,

I was looking at this Korg Kronos from what someone suggested in the other post, it looks very nice... shame it's going to be like nearly 4k for the 88 version though!

The 'problem' is with all these keyboards that just have the ability to playback audio, is you have to go through loads of menus (by the looks of things) and press play on a dedicated button.... rather than being able to assign a foot pedal to 'play' or having some keys at the bottom of they keyboard to trigger different parts etc.

I'm sure you'll know the answer to the being able to trigger audio from a pedal etc for the Kawai??? And I'd like to think it doesn't 'do a roland' and compromises on other things when playing back audio.

It is very annoying how I'm having to go and test the FP to make sure it doesn't have the issue.... I'm actually waiting for a response from the UK tech manager from Roland, who's emailed Japan to make sure 100% I won't have any of the same RD issues.

I don't think I'll ever be able to get over the fact the RD was absolutely perfect for what I wanted... expect this ridiculous note cut off issue. I did actually notice a few other minor silly issues the other day when having my last play on it, such as when coupling octave pianos, some random notes sustained (without pedal) and things like that.... but I'm sure issues like that could be fixed.
_________________________
J.T.Harrison

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#1635917 - 03/07/11 06:10 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Kawai James]
JHbackingtracks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Just been having a listen to the CP50 and was quite impressed, especially with some of the yamaha piano sounds I've heard before (not brilliant)

What is the main difference between the CP5 and 50? As I would probably be able to afford the CP5 after having the NX.

However, the deal breaker for me is still if you can 'trigger' the audio playback?? as when playing in a show and I'm changing patches and going through a set, It would be great to 'start' the backing track from a pedal or something.

Also, the 'master EQ' would that effect the backing track as well??

Maybe the CP5 or 50 will be a new option for me smile Thanks for pointing it out!
_________________________
J.T.Harrison

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#1635924 - 03/07/11 06:18 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
JHbackingtracks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
and hopefully when playing back audio, it won't steal any notes from me wink
_________________________
J.T.Harrison

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#1635937 - 03/07/11 06:30 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4369
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
and hopefully when playing back audio, it won't steal any notes from me wink

As you know better than most: who knows until we test for these things? And that's the heck* of it.

JHbackingtracks, you seem to be a master at lifting NX rocks so that we can all see the bugs underneath. Please report back on your experiences with the CP5/50.

* Has anyone else noticed that "H E double-hockey-sticks" gets automatically translated to "heck" on PW? What the heck's going on?
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1635945 - 03/07/11 06:34 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
JHbackingtracks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Sorry to keep 'hassling' you on this, but obviously I want to know everything on the matter...

I've just read the manual, and found an interesting 'keyon' feature where I could start the backing track from pressing any key (or as 'set' key) this is good! This is like the Audio Key in a way..... most the time I would only need the one trigger, unlike the audio key having an octaves worth of trigger keys.

So the question is, although the CP5 allows you to save your sounds/settings etc. Does it let you save the 'keyon' setting with it... and would it remember the backing track i want to start with that key on?? because ideally, I'd just like to press 'next' and go through all my set ups and the correct songs are stored to the 'keyon' setting... rather than having to go back into the menu and select the right song quick while I'm on stage etc.

Also, if I wanted to assign just the very bottom key to start the backing track for example, could I bypass the piano sound on that key??? I was thinking if you can't, maybe I could split the keyboard with another sound, make the split point the key before the bottom key, and then just turn it down all the way so only that note isn't active.

The thing that I like the sound of with the Roland audio key, is how I could assign more than 1 part to a key, which would be handy as I sometimes need to trigger little effects that last a few seconds, and I wouldn't have time to quickly go back and change the backing track I want to play, plus there would be a 'cut' in the sound as It wouldn't have enough time to finish... where as the audio key I could just press the next key and have the next sound assigned etc.

However... I wonder on the Roland, if you only have one key assigned, if the whole octave on the bottom becomes unplayable!

I'd really appreciate your answers to these questions If you know... you seem like a very good source on these forums smile

Thanks a lot, really appreciate it.
_________________________
J.T.Harrison

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#1635967 - 03/07/11 07:21 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
VivatRudolphus Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
Bad news, I've read on another forum that the FP-7F has the same exact issue as the 700 NX. That is, polyphony issues with SuperNatural piano patches when layering them with other instruments and using sustain, and when playing over audio files.

This is a huge turnoff for me, since I'm not spending that kind of money for an handicapped instrument, and it's a real shame since I liked the feel of the keyboard and the SuperNatural engine.

Anyways, if you happen to try the FP-7F, JHbackingtracks would you please report your findings?

I guess I'll have to start searching again, probably considering differences between Yamaha P-155 and CP-50, and Kawai MP6, and possibly RD 300 NX if it does not suffer from the same issue.

*edited to include source, both discussions mention that there's the same issue on FP-7F, but they're in italian.


Edited by VivatRudolphus (03/07/11 08:16 PM)
_________________________
Roland FP-7F

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#1635988 - 03/07/11 07:48 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
Bad news, I've read on another forum that the FP-7F has the same exact issue as the 700 NX.


Please post your source.

It's not good enough to simply state 'I read this...' or 'I heard that...'.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1636005 - 03/07/11 08:21 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9706
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
I'm sure you'll know the answer to the being able to trigger audio from a pedal etc for the Kawai??? And I'd like to think it doesn't 'do a roland' and compromises on other things when playing back audio.


I'm afraid it's not currently possible to use a pedal to trigger MP3/WAV playback on the MP6, only the 'PLAY' panel button. In my experience, Kawai's implementation of playing back MP3/WAV audio files from USB does not affect polyphony.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1636058 - 03/07/11 09:58 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Kawai James]
Mussorg Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 9
I'm also deciding between the FP-7F, MP6, or waiting for a Kawai ES6 replacement.The main things about the FP-7F for me are key noise and wear. Noise I hear is less than others but I'll have to try it. Wear not sure.

Besides the other issues. James, the MP6 doesn't seem to have a true triple pedal? I think you combine the included single and then get a double? That might be ok if it would support a possible future single triple pedal if they decided on one.


Edited by Mussorg (03/07/11 10:24 PM)

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#1636230 - 03/08/11 12:57 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Mussorg,

Unfortunately Kawai does not produce a dedicated 3-pedal accessory for the MP6/MP10. As you note, the only solution is to use Kawai's F-10H single and F-20 double-pedal units combined.

For example:



Kind regards,
James
x
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#1636259 - 03/08/11 01:55 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
jazzwee Offline
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I don't know what this polyphony nonsense is about and I don't have any key wear from 3 months of very heavy use (hours a day).

The polyphony on MP3 is so non-sensical to be. I plug in my Iphone/Ipod using the the Aux In of the FP7F and play whatever on it (Mp3, etc.) The sounds are mixed together. But they obviously do not affect the keyboard playing in any way since it's just audio and not digital.

Playing the MP3 directly on USB seems such an outdated concept in comparison.

What the heck are you guys playing that creates all these imagined limitations? It's a nice DP. That's all I need to say. SN Piano sounds great.

Non-keyboard related sounds like horn/sax are AWFUL however. Yamaha is better with those.
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#1636301 - 03/08/11 04:15 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: jazzwee]
JHbackingtracks Offline
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Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: jazzwee
I don't know what this polyphony nonsense is about and I don't have any key wear from 3 months of very heavy use (hours a day).

The polyphony on MP3 is so non-sensical to be. I plug in my Iphone/Ipod using the the Aux In of the FP7F and play whatever on it (Mp3, etc.) The sounds are mixed together. But they obviously do not affect the keyboard playing in any way since it's just audio and not digital.

Playing the MP3 directly on USB seems such an outdated concept in comparison.

What the heck are you guys playing that creates all these imagined limitations? It's a nice DP. That's all I need to say. SN Piano sounds great.

Non-keyboard related sounds like horn/sax are AWFUL however. Yamaha is better with those.



polyphony nonsense!? Trust me it's not nonsense.... I'm having to return my RD-700NX because of it, it's ridiculous (Although It's not really a polyphony issue) When paying about 6-8 notes or more, you can get this horrible 'cut off' and it IS an issue. If the same thing is happening on the FP-7F then there's just no point in the downgrade.

Although I'm very confused if the problem is still there or not, as someone has just said they found out the problem still exsists, and I've read on another post that someone tested this and the problem DOESN'T exsist... so very confused.

The playing audio direclty on USB is not outdated, and is a MUST-HAVE for me. I need to be able to trigger my audio backing tracks by pressing down on a foot pedal, or pressing an assigned key on the keyboard. As I need to be able to access different parts quickly on stage etc. I can't be doing with having an iPod plugged in (something else to think about) and having to quickly select the song and press play with another device in the way etc.

I should be able to do what the DP claims to do (without any problems!) Surely you must agree?

So are you saying you can't replicate this note 'cut off' problem at all??? and can you when playing back .WAV using the audio key??

This is the problem I was having on my NX www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNNGiJjPEI4 - So maybe you could confirm for me if it happens to you with your FP?? If so, I'll be very annoyed there's another option down the drain.

Thanks smile
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#1636302 - 03/08/11 04:17 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Kawai James]
JHbackingtracks Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
I'm sure you'll know the answer to the being able to trigger audio from a pedal etc for the Kawai??? And I'd like to think it doesn't 'do a roland' and compromises on other things when playing back audio.


I'm afraid it's not currently possible to use a pedal to trigger MP3/WAV playback on the MP6, only the 'PLAY' panel button. In my experience, Kawai's implementation of playing back MP3/WAV audio files from USB does not affect polyphony.

Kind regards,
James
x


Thanks James, Nice to hear it doesn't affect polyphony... but shame I can't trigger from anything else.

Do you know any of the answers to the Yamaha CP5 questions I asked above?? If the answers are the ones I hope to hear, maybe that'll be another option for me... as it sounds like the FP-7F might be having the same issues frown I hope not though!!

Thank you
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#1636306 - 03/08/11 04:26 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
Kawai James Online   content
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Registered: 09/06/07
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Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracs
Thanks James, Nice to hear it doesn't affect polyphony... but shame I can't trigger from anything else.


Yes, that'd be a handy feature - I'll have to suggest it to the MP chaps for a future software update. wink

As for your CP5 related questions, I'm afraid I do not know.

Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracs
...it sounds like the FP-7F might be having the same issues


Well, I would be more inclined to wait for a response from Roland on this point. Internet forums are certainly a useful resource, however not everything posted on them is factually correct all the time.

Kind regards,
James
x
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#1637199 - 03/09/11 07:48 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Rimmer Offline
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Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
1. No note stealing

Have you tried playing back a WAV or MP3 file while playing several notes together quickly and repeatedly? I can get our NX to do the "decay stealing" thing with as few as 3 notes when playing back an MP3 - not a deal breaker but it doesn't make me particularly happy.


Please, if any owner of the FP7F could do this test, I'd be most grateful.

I'd hate to spend 1800€ only to discover about the polyphony issue later.. Even though I guess one could use an mp3 player connected to the line-in of the piano to play over a backing track I guess.


Okay. I just tried this and I can't get any notes to drop or do anything weird. (NOTE* I was playing back a WAVE file as I was struggling with it recognising my MP3 conversions for some reason). I have to add that I am a learner so I am not that proficient at scales and such like. I did the 'two palms down on the piano' test ( whome ) so i've hit a load of notes at the same time (not easy to hear but).

So. Not a definitive test but a result of sorts.. I'll try some more tests and if I hear any duff notes i'll post here again..

Regards. Rimmer

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#1637231 - 03/09/11 09:14 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Rimmer]
VivatRudolphus Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
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This is a relief! Thanks for testing it, and please keep us posted even if you do some more tests without finding any oddities wink

If you could hit a two-hands 8-notes chord repeatedly while keeping down the sustain pedal, that'd be the "Beethoven test" for me, and if the result is positive, would make it a deal for me.

I'm so close to finally ordering now! :P


Edited by VivatRudolphus (03/09/11 09:20 AM)
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#1637257 - 03/09/11 09:51 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Rimmer Offline
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Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
This is a relief! Thanks for testing it, and please keep us posted even if you do some more tests without finding any oddities wink

If you could hit a two-hands 8-notes chord repeatedly while keeping down the sustain pedal, that'd be the "Beethoven test" for me, and if the result is positive, would make it a deal for me.

I'm so close to finally ordering now! :P


Tried that. I can't get it to do anything weird.. I could always play a Beethoven midi file through it while the wave plays I suppose..


Regards. Rimmer

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#1637339 - 03/09/11 11:18 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
VivatRudolphus Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
If you'd be so kind, I can provide you with two midi files which I think may be a good test for the FP-7F:

Beethoven "Hammerklavier" sonata, 1st mov

Beethoven "Waldstein" sonata, 1st mov

with the first being the most taxing. I'd like to know how it plays even while not playing a wav file in the background. If you could also record the output of the FP-7F, that'd be great. smile

Thanks for your patience..


Edited by VivatRudolphus (03/09/11 11:19 AM)
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#1637344 - 03/09/11 11:22 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
dewster Offline
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Registered: 12/07/09
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Thanks for testing and reporting back Rimmer! On our NX an MP3 seems to load the system more than a WAV.

What I do is like in the video:
1. I play a WAV or MP3 file & turn the volume of the file playing down while leaving the volume of the DP up.
2. Play several consecutive white keys simultaneously with my hand. Play in a very quick stacatto fashion, making the repeat time as short as possible.

I don't have to use the pedal at all.
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#1637359 - 03/09/11 11:47 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Rimmer]
JHbackingtracks Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: Rimmer
Originally Posted By: VivatRudolphus
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Nikalette
1. No note stealing

Have you tried playing back a WAV or MP3 file while playing several notes together quickly and repeatedly? I can get our NX to do the "decay stealing" thing with as few as 3 notes when playing back an MP3 - not a deal breaker but it doesn't make me particularly happy.


Please, if any owner of the FP7F could do this test, I'd be most grateful.

I'd hate to spend 1800€ only to discover about the polyphony issue later.. Even though I guess one could use an mp3 player connected to the line-in of the piano to play over a backing track I guess.


Okay. I just tried this and I can't get any notes to drop or do anything weird. (NOTE* I was playing back a WAVE file as I was struggling with it recognising my MP3 conversions for some reason). I have to add that I am a learner so I am not that proficient at scales and such like. I did the 'two palms down on the piano' test ( whome ) so i've hit a load of notes at the same time (not easy to hear but).

So. Not a definitive test but a result of sorts.. I'll try some more tests and if I hear any duff notes i'll post here again..

Regards. Rimmer


Thanks a lot! smile

That's nice to hear... and a relief!!

The problem doesn't actually occur on the NX with sustain... it seems to be just the ending of the notes that 'cut' (even when playing slowly sometimes and in a non staccato manner)

I'd be playing back WAV anyway, so great to hear you can't get the problem... especially if you've done the palms of hands all over!

Of course I'll try this myself before I buy, as I need to make 100% sure (not that I doubt you) and still waiting to hear back from this Roland guy who has contacted Japan about the issue to see if any other issues will magically appear.

Nice to know this sounds like it's going to be another option now smile even if I am loosing countless features downgrading from the NX!

I'll report back with the CP5 test as well....

Cheers
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#1637460 - 03/09/11 02:08 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: dewster]
Rimmer Offline
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Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 483
Loc: United Kingdom
I am happy to do a recording of the output of the FP-7F with those midi files and i'll try and get it to give me a positive response to the Mp3's i'm throwing at it. If the system is on the edge, then playing an Mp3 instead of a Wave might give it too much to think about.

Problem is, i'm going away working until late next week so I wont get a chance now. I simply don't have any time left this evening to do it so if someone wants to remind me the end of next week then it shall be done..!

Cheers. Rimmer

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#1638132 - 03/10/11 11:13 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
VivatRudolphus Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
I have some news regarding the issues of note stealing.

I pointed those three videos ( one two three ) to an owner of an FP-7F, a youtube user, and I got this response (he consented to putting it here):

Originally Posted By: qu4ntum81
I took a look at the videos you linked, and attempted to replicate the problems.

For videos 1 and 3, the issue with the strings, I was able to replicate. However, only with the default 'Rich Strings'. When layering my piano with a few of the other strings, this oddity did not occur, leaving me to guess that the problem may only exist with this one particular string set, and it's unlikely to be related to polyphony limitations. Polyphony of 128 is quite a lot, and I think it'd be difficult to overcome. My old SP-250 had polyphony of 60, and I only noticed notes being cut off while layering strings and sustaining for more than a few seconds. I actually prefer layering strings on the piece afterward, thinking that it sounds better when playing simpler string chords alongside a song, but if you're doing live stage performances then obviously you wouldn't have that option.

For video 2, I was not able to reproduce the problem. Hitting 8 notes at a time repeatedly sounded perfectly fine to me on my piano using the default supernatural grand piano 1.
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#1638651 - 03/11/11 07:47 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
JHbackingtracks Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
That's definitely very interesting!! Thanks for questioning him on all that...

Maybe the 'rich strings' thing is a polyphony issue?? Maybe more samples are used with-in that patch or something??? If not.... then maybe that's the sort of thing that can be fixed with a software update (rather than the processor thing)

Very nice to hear the issue on my video doesn't seem to happen, where just playing piano on its own, with 8 notes etc. However he didn't seem too confident in his answer... but confident enough. smile

Did he get the issue to happen when playing back .WAV though?? because that's one of the big deal breakers for me as you all know.

If not, then maybe this will be an option for me... really hope so. Absolutely crazy how the problem doesn't seem to happen on the FP yet it does on the NX (a better keyboard!) - The only thing that's putting me off now is that forum that someone linked to saying the problem DOES happen. I'm waiting for a reply from Japan still for their view on the issue and if it happens on the FP or not.

Hopefully sometime next week I'll make a visit to the music shop and I'll carry out very strong tests on the FP and the CP5, and will report back smile

Thanks again for this
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#1638754 - 03/11/11 11:08 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
JHbackingtracks Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
We have a problem!

I've just been talking to the same youtube user.... and asked him about the audio playback etc.

I got this reply

I tested it a bunch this morning. I started playing some preset background music (not sure if it was a .WAV or not) and was clearly able to reproduce unfortunately. I can barely hear the problem without the backing track, but was able to when playing the chords even faster than in your video.

I never notice that when playing, but yea that sucks for you, as it is quite noticeable in your piece. Being a processor issue is a good guess. Looks like you might have to wait for the next gen's, unless by some magic a software update would fix the problem.


So... unless the preset backings are MP3 (which I doubt) It looks like we're going to have the EXACT same problem as playing back audio in the NX. And as you know the audio play back is also what i'm in it for.

He also says he could get the normal cut off problem when playing faster than me in my video... So that worries me, if it happens without audio it will definitely happen WITH audio play back, and although he says 'faster' It sounds like me doing 'ragtime' sort of vamping (which can happen a lot in shows I play for) the issue is going to arise again.

Obviously I will still test for myself... but what on earth are we supposed to do now! There's NO other Roland Stage piano that has SN pianos... and it seems none of the Roland keyboards can actually handle SN pianos 100% ... never mind with audio playback!!

This really is annoying.
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#1638829 - 03/11/11 12:21 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
dewster Offline
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Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4369
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
... and it seems none of the Roland keyboards can actually handle SN pianos 100% ... never mind with audio playback!!

But the 700NX can handle SN pianos 100%, as long as you don't play MP3 / WAV files or layer it, correct?

And if you layer it with strings it seems to be only the strings that suffer, and not the SN piano, correct? I played with that some yesterday and I believe I can get the strings to behave somewhat better if I increase the reserve for them.

I ran into tons of polyphony issues several years ago when rendering complex piano pieces (many notes and lots of continuous pedal) via Kontakt. It's quite an eye-opener to see the polyphony count skyrocket past 300 on an 88 key instrument. Left, right, note release, key up/down noises, it can all add up to a much larger number than one might imagine. The worst part was the Kontakt note stealing algorithm wasn't very sophisticated, so the absence of most of the stolen notes was conspicuously audible.

Anyway, I just spent half an hour or so playing several of those complex piano MIDI files on the NX and I couldn't hear any note stealing, decay truncation, or anything else weird going on. I know that doesn't help you JHbackingtracks with the way you want to use the NX, and I don't like running into limitations in the expensive things I buy, but the NX so far is working out pretty well for us.
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#1638850 - 03/11/11 12:47 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: dewster]
VivatRudolphus Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Italy
All those bad news come too late, as I have already ordered it! :P

Anyways, as long as those are confined to playing over a backing track, I'm fine. I guess I'll just have to see how the situation plays out, and if I'm not satisfied I'll just return it.
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#1638854 - 03/11/11 01:03 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: dewster]
JHbackingtracks Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: dewster
But the 700NX can handle SN pianos 100%, as long as you don't play MP3 / WAV files or layer it, correct?


Unfortunately not correct! If I play block chords, or vamp.... or play about more than 8 notes at the same time with a quick release, I get the horrible 'cut off' sound. As shown in my video at the start before I play with an audio file. (It happens more on the Concert grand patch)

So when playing a lot of the songs I would play with a solo piano, it just can't handle it... and especially when coming through a loud theatre system the cut off is ridiculous. So it's not just when you layer sounds frown

It's strange because the problem isn't actually a polyphony issue, it's the processor not being able to handle the 'quick' release or something, because you can easily sustain and press all the notes down and no notes drop out.. so it's not a polyphony issue, it seems to be the processor not being able to handle the SN sounds.


Edited by JHbackingtracks (03/11/11 01:04 PM)
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#1638856 - 03/11/11 01:08 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
antony Offline
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Portland, OR
I can't respond to the polyphony issues, I use mine simply "as a piano." I played another Roland keyboard with the same action and ordered the FP-7F sight unseen. I think the action and feel of the keys is outstanding, better than acoustic uprights that cost 3x the price of the Roland. Now if someone could help me adjust the sounds....

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#1638866 - 03/11/11 01:25 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: antony]
JHbackingtracks Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: antony
I can't respond to the polyphony issues, I use mine simply "as a piano." I played another Roland keyboard with the same action and ordered the FP-7F sight unseen. I think the action and feel of the keys is outstanding, better than acoustic uprights that cost 3x the price of the Roland. Now if someone could help me adjust the sounds....


When not playing back audio, I use mine simply as a piano as well... but on the NX, when using it simply as a piano I can still replicate the 'cut off' sounds when playing more than 8 notes (and sometimes only a few notes after playing a demanding sequence a second before etc.) When vamping on block chords and playing a solo in the right hand, it just can't handle it and does the horrible 'cut off' so - can you not reproduce this problem with the FP?? smile

I will be glad to help you adjust the sounds as soon as I've had a play on one and get to grips with how it works compared to the NX.
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#1638899 - 03/11/11 02:12 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
antony Offline
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
Originally Posted By: antony
I can't respond to the polyphony issues, I use mine simply "as a piano." I played another Roland keyboard with the same action and ordered the FP-7F sight unseen. I think the action and feel of the keys is outstanding, better than acoustic uprights that cost 3x the price of the Roland. Now if someone could help me adjust the sounds....


When not playing back audio, I use mine simply as a piano as well... but on the NX, when using it simply as a piano I can still replicate the 'cut off' sounds when playing more than 8 notes (and sometimes only a few notes after playing a demanding sequence a second before etc.) When vamping on block chords and playing a solo in the right hand, it just can't handle it and does the horrible 'cut off' so - can you not reproduce this problem with the FP?? smile

I will be glad to help you adjust the sounds as soon as I've had a play on one and get to grips with how it works compared to the NX.


That would be great. I am using it with the settings "as is" when I got it. I have it on the grand piano setting, and to me the sound are very muted, not really alive at all. I am too lazy to figure out how to change the settings! But the action I think is unbelievable. It even has that little "bump" that you get on a grand action when you press the key down slowly.

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#1638918 - 03/11/11 02:51 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: dewster]
PianoZac Offline
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Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1425
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks

Obviously I will still test for myself... but what on earth are we supposed to do now! There's NO other Roland Stage piano that has SN pianos... and it seems none of the Roland keyboards can actually handle SN pianos 100% ... never mind with audio playback!!

This really is annoying.

Well the RD-300NX is all SN pianos I believe, but you're taking a step backwards in action. This cannot be a polyphony issue because supposedly my NP88 has 40-60 notes polyphony, and yet, when I play the exact same way, I get none of the problems that I got on my RD-700GXF and you're getting on your RD-700NX.

Originally Posted By: dewster


I ran into tons of polyphony issues several years ago when rendering complex piano pieces (many notes and lots of continuous pedal) via Kontakt. It's quite an eye-opener to see the polyphony count skyrocket past 300 on an 88 key instrument. Left, right, note release, key up/down noises, it can all add up to a much larger number than one might imagine. The worst part was the Kontakt note stealing algorithm wasn't very sophisticated, so the absence of most of the stolen notes was conspicuously audible.


I'm curious dewster, could you help shed some light on why the NP88 doesn't have any polyphony issues, note stealing, etc. with a Nord spec'd polyphony of just 40-60 voices? When looking at that, it seems so low since the norm today is 128 voices, yet I have NO issues with the NP88.
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#1638930 - 03/11/11 03:01 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: PianoZac]
JHbackingtracks Offline
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Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks

Obviously I will still test for myself... but what on earth are we supposed to do now! There's NO other Roland Stage piano that has SN pianos... and it seems none of the Roland keyboards can actually handle SN pianos 100% ... never mind with audio playback!!

This really is annoying.

Well the RD-300NX is all SN pianos I believe, but you're taking a step backwards in action. This cannot be a polyphony issue because supposedly my NP88 has 40-60 notes polyphony, and yet, when I play the exact same way, I get none of the problems that I got on my RD-700GXF and you're getting on your RD-700NX.

Originally Posted By: dewster


I ran into tons of polyphony issues several years ago when rendering complex piano pieces (many notes and lots of continuous pedal) via Kontakt. It's quite an eye-opener to see the polyphony count skyrocket past 300 on an 88 key instrument. Left, right, note release, key up/down noises, it can all add up to a much larger number than one might imagine. The worst part was the Kontakt note stealing algorithm wasn't very sophisticated, so the absence of most of the stolen notes was conspicuously audible.


I'm curious dewster, could you help shed some light on why the NP88 doesn't have any polyphony issues, note stealing, etc. with a Nord spec'd polyphony of just 40-60 voices? When looking at that, it seems so low since
the norm today is 128 voices, yet I have NO issues with the NP88.


I think the reason it happens on these particular Roland 128 polyphony ones, is it's not actually a polyphony issue (as I can sustain and play all the notes and don't get any cut offs) its a problem with the actual processor not being able to 'keep up' with what I'm playing?? e.g me playing a quick 'stab' with 8 notes and the sound just cuts out. Rather than doing a 'note steal'

Thats my view on it anyway...
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#1638944 - 03/11/11 03:31 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1425
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
I think the reason it happens on these particular Roland 128 polyphony ones, is it's not actually a polyphony issue (as I can sustain and play all the notes and don't get any cut offs) its a problem with the actual processor not being able to 'keep up' with what I'm playing?? e.g me playing a quick 'stab' with 8 notes and the sound just cuts out. Rather than doing a 'note steal'

Thats my view on it anyway...

Yeah, I spoke with a Roland tech on the phone at length about this, and he acknowledged a deficiency in the RD-700GXF processor but didn't outright say there was issue on with the RD-700NX. Of course he wouldn't, it's their flagship stage piano. I know it is super frustrating for you. I went and played the RD-700NX and V-Piano at length this week, and perhaps it's because I've been playing on the NP88, but the RD-700NX felt just terrific. It sounded and played so well, and the beautiful LCD screen, it's a great instrument, aside the issues with note stealing.
_________________________
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#1639005 - 03/11/11 04:55 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: PianoZac]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4369
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
Well the RD-300NX is all SN pianos I believe

There is only one SN AP in the 300NX: Concert. The 700NX has Concert, Studio, and Brilliant. I'm not sure which I like the sound of the most, Concert or Studio. Brilliant is too clangy IMO.

I believe all three of the SN EPs transferred over from the 700NX to the 300NX, and a boatload of PCM sounds too. Too bad the value wheel and other control knobs didn't make it.

Originally Posted By: PianoZac
I'm curious dewster, could you help shed some light on why the NP88 doesn't have any polyphony issues, note stealing, etc. with a Nord spec'd polyphony of just 40-60 voices? When looking at that, it seems so low since the norm today is 128 voices, yet I have NO issues with the NP88.

It may be the way Nord defines polyphony. One voice to them might mean one note and all the extra stuff such as L&R (stereo), note-off damp sound, key noises, etc. though that's pure speculation on my part. It may be that you can't layer it (true?) so that load is off of it. And it could simply be that you just haven't stressed it enough or in the right way.

Am I correct in saying that no one here, including JHbackingtracks, has heard the SN AP note cutoff issue with just the SN voice playing (no layering, no WAV/MP3 playing)?
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#1639009 - 03/11/11 05:02 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1425
Thanks dewster, I think you're probably right, because purely from a technical point of view, I see no other way for the NP88 to sound as good as it does with no issues associated with lack of polyphony, even though it says 40-60 on paper.

I did hear the decay drop off sharply on my RD-700GXF, but only while applying the fast thick comp chords. Interestingly, also on my RD-700GXF, when switching back to non-SN piano voices, playing the same way did not result in the abrupt shortening of decay.
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#1639027 - 03/11/11 05:21 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: PianoZac]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4369
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
I did hear the decay drop off sharply on my RD-700GXF, but only while applying the fast thick comp chords.

This was with no layering and no WAV/MP3 playing?
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#1639030 - 03/11/11 05:23 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: dewster]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1425
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
I did hear the decay drop off sharply on my RD-700GXF, but only while applying the fast thick comp chords.

This was with no layering and no WAV/MP3 playing?


Yep. I never used the WAV/MP3 feature on my RD-700GXF. When I did layer the RD-700GXF...good grief it was bad. Serious cutting out issues. But again, I played the same choppy thick comp chords with both SN and non-SN and I never experienced the cut off with non-SN pianos (or any other DP for that matter), just with SN pianos.
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#1639093 - 03/11/11 06:36 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: PianoZac]
JHbackingtracks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Which is why it HAS to be a problem with the SN pianos....... (or more a problem with the processor) not being able to handle the 'goodness' of the SN pianos wink

I wonder if the note cut can be produced on the NON-SN pianos with audio playback. How bad/good are the non SN pianos compared to the SN ???

Maybe that could be another option for me, the GX???

Dewster - If you watch my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNNGiJjPEI4&feature=channel_video_title - You'll see the problem happening without any layering, or music playback. I then show it WITH audio playback, and then again without. It's much worse with audio playback.... but still not acceptable without audio playback.

It seems to have a mind of its own, and can get worse/better sometimes... and in the video, that's it about half way i'd say, I've heard it 50% worse... it seems to be what you do, and the amount of time you spend doing it that makes the next part worse etc.

My head is absolutely done in through all these forums and Roland contacting, and more keyboard searching and just everything.... eek - If only I could have just purchased the NX and everything work 100% (I used to think highly of Roland....)
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#1639106 - 03/11/11 07:04 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4369
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
Dewster - If you watch my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNNGiJjPEI4&feature=channel_video_title - You'll see the problem happening without any layering, or music playback. I then show it WITH audio playback, and then again without. It's much worse with audio playback.... but still not acceptable without audio playback.

I've watched your video before but only heard the note chop problem once you engaged the backing track, not before.

Now I'm pretty sure I hear it in the first 8 seconds. Thanks, you've answered the question I've asked many times now. I'll try to do that on our NX after the group class is over this evening and report back.
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#1644182 - 03/19/11 03:51 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
Qorkz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 8
Any FP7F owners try the MP6? Also had ivory feel but felt much heavier. Didn't have the bounce at the bottom but felt harder to play. This is coming from a beginner though. Some acoustics do feel like the Roland but others feel like MP6. I'm about to get the FP-7F because I still like it better for now.

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#1644638 - 03/20/11 11:29 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
The fact that the owner's manual for the RD700NX warns you that the board will sometimes have its processor overloaded and will not be able to keep up is a pretty good indication that Roland has not put enough processor in to do the work the board is promising. When problems actually crop up, there should be no surprise. Buyer beware.

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#1644728 - 03/20/11 03:03 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Qorkz]
Rimmer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 483
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: Qorkz
Any FP7F owners try the MP6? Also had ivory feel but felt much heavier. Didn't have the bounce at the bottom but felt harder to play. This is coming from a beginner though. Some acoustics do feel like the Roland but others feel like MP6. I'm about to get the FP-7F because I still like it better for now.


I've tried both and bought the FP-7F. The MP6 is better at some stuff though, but I preferred the feel of the keys and the AP sounds better and seeing that was what I set out to get, it was an easy'ish choice for me..


Regards. Rimmer

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#1644731 - 03/20/11 03:10 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Rimmer]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1734
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
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#1645086 - 03/21/11 07:56 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: theJourney]
JHbackingtracks Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: theJourney
The fact that the owner's manual for the RD700NX warns you that the board will sometimes have its processor overloaded and will not be able to keep up is a pretty good indication that Roland has not put enough processor in to do the work the board is promising. When problems actually crop up, there should be no surprise. Buyer beware.


You make it sound like it's more acceptable for these ridiculous issues to occur, just because they 'warn' us! eek
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#1645240 - 03/21/11 01:23 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: JHbackingtracks]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: JHbackingtracks
Originally Posted By: theJourney
The fact that the owner's manual for the RD700NX warns you that the board will sometimes have its processor overloaded and will not be able to keep up is a pretty good indication that Roland has not put enough processor in to do the work the board is promising. When problems actually crop up, there should be no surprise. Buyer beware.


You make it sound like it's more acceptable for these ridiculous issues to occur, just because they 'warn' us! eek


Not at all. If I were planning on using the RD700NX in a way which it is advertised to be able to handle but the user manual warns that it probably won't be able to handle, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. The problem is that their advertising seems to be in conflict with their caveats in the user manual. Not good.

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#1645491 - 03/21/11 09:20 PM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: Dave Ferris]
dewar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 139
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I haven't spent extended time on either but my initial impressions were the Roland had the superior sound while the Kawai had the better action.


I wish I could find an fp7f. The only thing I have to go off is comparing it to the hp307. I just don't get it, it's like piano places seem to think that keyboards are a bane.

And when you walk into a place that says keyboard world, well dang it they should have keyboards lol.

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#1645636 - 03/22/11 04:07 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: dewar]
Rimmer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/10
Posts: 483
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: dewar
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I haven't spent extended time on either but my initial impressions were the Roland had the superior sound while the Kawai had the better action.


I wish I could find an fp7f. The only thing I have to go off is comparing it to the hp307. I just don't get it, it's like piano places seem to think that keyboards are a bane.

And when you walk into a place that says keyboard world, well dang it they should have keyboards lol.


I bought the FP-7f blind on the basis that I was reliably informed that it would be an HP307 in a portable (albeit heavy) black plastic box. They were right. The keys are whiter on the FP but through headphones they are as close as dammit. Even the menu is almost identical. The speakers in the HP307 sound more advanced and therefore it sounds and it feels more like sitting at an acoustic piano but other than that, they are almost identical.

Regards. Rimmer

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#1645663 - 03/22/11 06:02 AM Re: To Roland FP-7F owners [Re: VivatRudolphus]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2427
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
I agree, having owned both, HP307 and FP-7F are essentially the same piano but in different boxes.

Steve
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